Need Will's review:

Will Prowse

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Eh, all I can say is hopefully the forums' changes are for the better. It wasn't my intent to make you step down (unless it was determined you should by the appropriate people for the appropriate reasons). Pretty sure that was made clear in the 4-way DM you and I were part of.

Unfortunately, this is the outcome.

The subtle implication about the cabal thread is off-base. This didn't have to be this way. I would have been happy with an acknowledgement that Will was going to review it. I did not name any names, I just wanted to get Will Prowse's eyes on the situation.

While its good that you self-reported, I nor any of the other forum members had any way of verifying that.
I check every report, every day. Also keep an eye on general discussion forum, and a few others. I like to stay quiet. If someone is acting foolish, they are hurting their own reputation on the forum. I do not see the need to step in most times. I know it is nice to "clean up" the forum of tangents and the like. And I will do so when necessary. But fixing every thread, or trying to solve every personal problem between two members is not in my interest. What I am here to do is ensure that nothing illegal is posted (porn etc), and that we do not have spam that could hurt our servers, or slow them down. Recently, I took the "contact us" form off the site because it was attacked by spam. I tried so many "captcha" programs to solve the issue for nearly a week, and had no luck fixing it. If someone wishes to complain about something, they can do so publicly here, and tag me in it. That way, everyone can see. I prefer not having private messages. I want everything I say to be public if possible.

I do have a very different approach to moderation than other mods on our site. I do not think there is a right or a wrong way to do this. But typically I like to leave posts up. If people really want me to act, I typically ban members. That solves the root issue. If people are fighting amongst each other and they are very helpful on the forum, I do not know how to act. Those are difficult situations.

I also do not like to edit posts. I understand the utility at times. Especially in sticky posts. But if people are arguing over silly matters, or someone requests to edit a post because they personally did not like what they said, and want to take it back, I would rather leave it. It teaches them a valuable lesson that everything you post online is forever.

Just my personal opinions.

I appreciate the thousands of hours of work the mods have put into this site. None of us are getting paid, and there is not a single affiliate link anywhere. It has become a platform for learning, as it was intended to be. No corporate interest at all. I am getting offers every few days to buy this site, and I will never budge. We need this site to be corporate free. Especially as this industry grows and expands. I would rather be on the streets before I see this site in the hands of anyone else. As long as I am alive, I will do my best to keep it running smoothly.
 
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svetz

Works in theory! Practice? That's something else
Joined
Sep 20, 2019
Messages
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Key Largo
As was mentioned earlier, this is where Will & I separated in our philosophies and why I resigned. I get his point about shaming others forever with their own bad behavior. But member attacks also malign the attacked forever, and that's the part I couldn't internally resolve.
 

noenegdod

Photon Sorcerer
Joined
Mar 21, 2020
Messages
989
But member attacks also malign the attacked forever, and that's the part I couldn't internally resolve.
You can not protect people. You can however help them to become stronger so they can stand on their own. Running around protecting people from what others are saying makes you feel good but makes them weak. What happens when you are not there to be their shield? They collapse. Imagine what the world would look like if all parents did was protect their kids and the kids didnt have to learn how to look out for themselves. Oh crap. You dont have to imagine. You just have to look around at the world today. Safe spaces, trigger warnings, entitlement. What a joke. Stop protecting people! Let them learn how to deal with life. If being involved makes you feel good, teach them how to deal with life but stop protecting them.

@Will Prowse Im happy to see a younger person that is willing to dig in and make something of themselves and promote the idea of personal accountability and responsibility. (y) (y)
 

Stepandwolf

Solar Addict
Joined
Nov 14, 2020
Messages
620
Does this site have "preferred vendors", or ones that have made some kind of product or $ donation to the site to get special treatment?

I personally kept wondering why Luyuan was suggested in most cases when someone was seeking a battery vendor. Some tried to say she was offering "matched" batteries and data about the batteries and that if you wanted that, Luyuan was where you had to go to get it. As things unraveled, we found that matched had a very weak, undefined meaning. Some would define what it meant, but it wasn't what was being delivered. When I chose Basen for availability and price, and learned I was getting the same thing Luyuan was promising, it made me wonder what made Luyuan so special. If another vendor is providing the same product at a lower price, why would people still promote the same product at a higher price?

I personally disliked the thread being closed as I didn't think things rose to a level to deserve it. I ran a very popular BBS way back when and I do't remember ever deleting a thread. Had there been something racist or harmful, I would have, but I don't think the deleted thread here rose to that level.

Just saying..
 

upnorthandpersonal

Administrator
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Messages
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Location
63 degrees North, Finland
Does this site have "preferred vendors", or ones that have made some kind of product or $ donation to the site to get special treatment?

No.
Never has. There are people who have preferred vendors and recommend these based on their experience with them.

This site is hosted by Will and myself. Will pays the general hosting, I host the search. No one gets paid here. There are no ads, no backroom deals, and corporate entities that want to interact here have to very clearly state that they are representing a company and can only promote in the 'corporate' forum.
 

740GLE

Solar Addict
Joined
Apr 30, 2021
Messages
1,104
It's really not about me being right or wrong, it's about the adventure to determine which (if any) anti-Bill sentiment is actually correct. He's a polarizing figure and I don't really understand why people gravitate towards believing so many bad things him about (well there's decades of suffering under the windows OSes, his bailing out of Apple, personal life hanky-panky, and this I guess). But really, which of these two guys are you going to trust if you're a Plasmodium? (Hint: One has an organized campaign to eradicate you, the other is holding something (I forget what) hostage for $1M)

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(ROFL) Seriously though, thanks for the kind words, much appreciated. I like that we can discuss differences as civilized folk and actually enjoy the forums too.

What does Jeff Bezos have to do with Bill Gates? Lol
 

svetz

Works in theory! Practice? That's something else
Joined
Sep 20, 2019
Messages
5,460
Location
Key Largo
Does this site have "preferred vendors", or ones that have made some kind of product or $ donation to the site to get special treatment?
Will does list some vendors in the blueprints section, but it's about reliability and value of stuff he's personally tested. He swaps them out as better stuff comes along. It's not necessarily the cheapest gear, it's just stuff he knows will work together reliably.

I personally kept wondering why Luyuan was suggested in most cases when someone was seeking a battery vendor.
You can get decent products ordering direct from countries without consumer protections, but it's buyer beware IMO. Some members have used them and had a good experience. I purchased a bunch of LiitoKala cells knowing full well their reputation for over-reporting Ah, but they were so cheap it was still worth it (I wasn't disappointed, they didn't have the advertised Ah, but they were solid grade-A cells and still a bargain for the price, plus other companies create forgeries of theirs...so the in-country reputation seemed like it must be good). Those members are just giving their thoughts and a part of the value of the forum is members pooling their collective experiences as to what products are marginally safer and what's complete crap. Yelling at them or accusing them of things just makes them less likely to share in the future.

Had there been something .... harmful, I would have,
Nothing harmful in it now so hard to judge. Before that IMO there was. Even Will deleted at least one of the posts in it.

Closing the thread was because the attacks started back up the next day despite the previous warnings and it was simply "too much work" to continue to edit/delete. Emotions were that high. The work-level required for the "soft approach" is one of the reasons Will has changed the approach.

What does Jeff Bezos have to do with Bill Gates? Lol
OMG you're bad! Haven't laughed that hard in a while. You totally caught me off-guard, glad I wasn't drinking anything when I read it.
 
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Bob B

Photon Sorcerer
Joined
Sep 21, 2019
Messages
4,365
No.
Never has. There are people who have preferred vendors and recommend these based on their experience with them.

This site is hosted by Will and myself. Will pays the general hosting, I host the search. No one gets paid here. There are no ads, no backroom deals, and corporate entities that want to interact here have to very clearly state that they are representing a company and can only promote in the 'corporate' forum.
Hmmmm .... I didn't know you were co-hosting this forum with Will .... and for some reason never even noticed your administrator title .... Good to know.... and Thanks.
 

Will Prowse

Admin
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Sep 19, 2019
Messages
1,993
Location
Las Vegas
Does this site have "preferred vendors", or ones that have made some kind of product or $ donation to the site to get special treatment?

I personally kept wondering why Luyuan was suggested in most cases when someone was seeking a battery vendor. Some tried to say she was offering "matched" batteries and data about the batteries and that if you wanted that, Luyuan was where you had to go to get it. As things unraveled, we found that matched had a very weak, undefined meaning. Some would define what it meant, but it wasn't what was being delivered. When I chose Basen for availability and price, and learned I was getting the same thing Luyuan was promising, it made me wonder what made Luyuan so special. If another vendor is providing the same product at a lower price, why would people still promote the same product at a higher price?

I personally disliked the thread being closed as I didn't think things rose to a level to deserve it. I ran a very popular BBS way back when and I do't remember ever deleting a thread. Had there been something racist or harmful, I would have, but I don't think the deleted thread here rose to that level.

Just saying..
Never have been, never will be. Not accepting donations or outside influence. Also, purchasing from a "group buy" is at your own risk. There is no "regulator" group here to tell you what you should or should not purchase here.

I have never received any products from Amy, and I have never participated in a group buy. I am personally scared to do so. I understand that many members like to do it, which is great. But I do not vouch for or against any of those products. I want some of the cells that members post about, but my results would be posted on the youtube, to keep it separate from this forum.

I ensure there is no advertising in the rest of the forum, but the corporate corner is the wild west. No one can protect you there. Any company can post if they wish. If a company tries to post elsewhere, with links or self-promotion of any kind, I ban them. A company is allowed to make a profile and post helpful content... but they need to tread carefully. And typically, stick to the corporate corner.

If there is a scam present, and people report it, I will obviously take it down. But buying from other individuals on this forum can be risky.

If I ban a company or shill, they usually come back a couple weeks later with a new email. Luckily, they make it pretty obvious, so it is easy to spot.
 

Will Prowse

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Messages
1,993
Location
Las Vegas
It is me, @upnorthandpersonal, and the mods. That is it. There is no company, no teams. Just a couple of people who love solar and batteries.

I pay for it myself, which includes dedicated server hosting and xenforo forum hosting software. I bought the best package I could when I started this forum. I just renewed it, and the hosting this month. The domain is registered for the next 15 years or so.
 

Stepandwolf

Solar Addict
Joined
Nov 14, 2020
Messages
620
Never have been, never will be. Not accepting donations or outside influence. Also, purchasing from a "group buy" is at your own risk. There is no "regulator" group here to tell you what you should or should not purchase here.

I have never received any products from Amy, and I have never participated in a group buy. I am personally scared to do so. I understand that many members like to do it, which is great. But I do not vouch for or against any of those products. I want some of the cells that members post about, but my results would be posted on the youtube, to keep it separate from this forum.

I ensure there is no advertising in the rest of the forum, but the corporate corner is the wild west. No one can protect you there. Any company can post if they wish. If a company tries to post elsewhere, with links or self-promotion of any kind, I ban them. A company is allowed to make a profile and post helpful content... but they need to tread carefully. And typically, stick to the corporate corner.

If there is a scam present, and people report it, I will obviously take it down. But buying from other individuals on this forum can be risky.

If I ban a company or shill, they usually come back a couple weeks later with a new email. Luckily, they make it pretty obvious, so it is easy to spot.
Glad to hear that. I watch your videos and use your recommended products when it works out. Sometimes your product links are bad or in one case, the company ignored multiple emails so I figured that wasn't where to go.

Love what you are doing here and how the site is managed. It is a real treasure trove of experts.

BTW, I also do web hosting. Sounds like you are all set up as the site works great!
 

Gazoo

Dumb Dumb
Joined
May 12, 2020
Messages
2,794
Location
Texas
Had a chat with Will. He was disturbed by the number of complaints against me and has concluded a certain amount of hostility is healthy. As my primary motivation for being a moderator is to promote discussion without personal attacks our goals are no longer aligned and I asked that he remove me as a moderator. I know a lot of you supported that ideal in this thread and others and I just wanted to say thank you.
Sad to see you resigned but hopefully you will stay around. You have contributed very much not as only a moderator but also the resources you have provided.

I too would have locked the thread in question and would have deleted this one after the first post. Moderators actions should never be questioned other than by their superiors and in this case its Will Prowse. If a member has a problem with the way moderation is done then it should be immediately taken to a PM. I simply see too much drama in this thread as well as some of the other threads. While I find some drama entertaining, I don't like personal attacks. Just agree to disagree and leave it at that....simple.

At the rate this forum has been growing moderation may reach a level where it's going to have to be more strict. Otherwise this forum will go to hell. I hope it never reaches that point and I don't need to write a novel explaining what I am getting at with my statement.

I do thank the moderators and Will for everything they do. I don't envy the moderators having been there done that. But not as far back as the "stone age" when BBS's were around, although I did participate in one.
 

svetz

Works in theory! Practice? That's something else
Joined
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Messages
5,460
Location
Key Largo
... hopefully you will stay around...
Like most folks, there's always stuff to do and I have a lot piled up... but I don't plan on leaving any time soon. Rest assured I'll post the finale to my mother-in-law's attic sometime this winter ; -)

At the rate this forum has been growing moderation may reach a level...
Very astute. The style I enjoy worked better when we were smaller, more focused on just helping each other, and had just started laying the foundations. But like a small startup transitioning into a global store, changes are needed. I hope all the members continue to support Will and the forums.
 

DerpsyDoodler

Photon Sorcerer
Joined
Jan 10, 2021
Messages
2,281
You can use the start conversation (conversations icon, the mail box) to PM Will just like any other user. Whether or not he has time to reply/want to reply is another thing.
Oh OK. I swear I watched a video where he said he had them disabled. I could be remembering wrong or it's changed. Regardless, people know there are options should it be necessary.
 
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