Neighbor does not want me to install ground mount solar

[Texas-Mark]

Turned out that my neighbor was head of the ARB.

So, someone was on the board that was able to manipulate things. Someone else in this thread suggested to get on the board to change the rules or whatever. Sounds like they are advocating for the same "corruption" you are talking about.

So if you refuse to acknowledge that this kind of thing goes on - all the time - then you are ignoring people's actual lived experience with HOAs.

Did you miss all of my posts where I said I lived with one? So yes I have actual experience. Of course I can't speak of every HOA, only the one I had. I'm sure there are good ones and bad ones just like everything.

 

[PVGeezer]

So, someone was on the board that was able to manipulate things. Somene else in this thread suggested to get on the board to change the rules or whatever. Sounds like they are advocating for the same corruption you are talking about.

Sure, it's a slippery slope. Graft and corruption breeds more of the same. If that guy's going it why can't I go it too?

So the option is not to live in a community with a private HOA. Then you only have to worry about government corruption, as opposed to both public and private corruption if you're in an HOA. At least with public corruption you can vote the bums out. You have only the civil court system and the threat of litigation as recourse with the HOA. Like me, most folks will only go there if they have no other option.

 

[PVGeezer]

Did you miss all of my posts where I said I lived with one? So yes I have actual experience. Of course I can't speak of every HOA, only the one I had. I'm sure there are good ones and bad ones just like everything.

Nope didnt miss that at all. You had an acceptable experience with your HOA. Many, many ppl have not been so lucky, myself included.

When I pointed you to a video documenting some of that you said you weren't interested. Therefore, you are choosing to ignore others bad lived experiences in favor of your own good one. That's fine, you're certainly free to do so.

 

[SparkyJJO]

I've heard enough horror stories about HOAs that I never want to live in one. Nothing like paying yet another tax (effectively) to have a bunch of karens tell me what I can and cannot do on my property. All it takes for a good HOA to turn bad is busy bodies to get on the HOA board, and let's face it, those types of people are more likely to have the time to put into it than normal people.

I live in a suburb and aside from a couple people most take care of their properties just fine without a Karen measuring their grass with a ruler and yelling at them.

 

[rhino]

I truly find it ironic that 99.9% of people have no problem with power lines going through/around their property and nobody thinks twice about it even though that has to be the most butt ugly piece of man made structure that ruins views. Some are fortunate to have them all buried but those that don't never think twice about them since "they are necessary". But installing solar panels.....

 

[Supervstech]

I think the neighbors are under the mistaken assumption they have to approve of your build.
They may think you were asking their permission to allow your panels.

They need to be informed that is not the case.

They need to have it explained the panels are going up.
You only wanted to avoid needing a fence, if they would agree that plants would be a better solution.

If they still argue your panels arent wanted, i would build a steel siding fence the legal limit in height, and tell them to bury their heads in the sand if they dont wanna see it.

You tried.

Get your permission from permitting and hoa and write them off as bad neighbors.
Maybe they will move to get away from the industrial view.

 

[blueforce]

I truly find it ironic that 99.9% of people have no problem with power lines going through/around their property and nobody thinks twice about it even though that has to be the most butt ugly piece of man made structure that ruins views. Some are fortunate to have them all buried but those that don't never think twice about them since "they are necessary". But installing solar panels.....

That's kinda like arguing that since we have one ugly thing we might as well have more. Slippery slope

 

[PVGeezer]

You don't like "postmodernist" design elements of new houses, I don't like random rectangles that don't even try to look like part of the structure. The only good looking PV modules are Tesla's solar tiles but I'm certainly not paying for that.

Exactly my point. Solar modules, like windows, skylights, roof obsructions and pergolas, aren't inherently ugly or beautiful. It's a matter of how well integrated they are into the architecture and how the individual viewer perceives that. Thats a personal opinion, everyone differs.

I don't like the "broken tooth" effect of roof mounted PV modules being worked around plumbing vents and other stick ups either. The good installers will try to relocate the plumbing vents to the north elevation so they can get a nice rectangular array thar looks like it belongs there. Usually it's pretty easy to do that as long as there's an attic space to work in. Thats what I used propose to customers when I ran a resi solar business. Costs money though so lots of install companies wont offer to do that. We wouldnt touch flues though, just plumbing vents.

Tesla isn't the only BIPV product on the market BTW, if you like that fully integrated look. They're all expensive though.

 

[kommando]

In the UK planning rules only apply to permanent structures, so you can park an old trailer on a field next to a motorway and not need any permission and rack in the advertisement fees. So if this was the UK you would put the PV panel frame on wheels and carry on.

 

[PVGeezer]

In the UK planning rules only apply to permanent structures, so you can park an old trailer on a field next to a motorway and not need any permission and rack in the advertisement fees. So if this was the UK you would put the PV panel frame on wheels and carry on.

In the US in some subdivisions the HOA won't even let you park a pickup truck you drive to work each day in your own driveway. You have to keep it in the garage or not at all.

 

[SparkyJJO]

In the US in some subdivisions the HOA won't even let you park a pickup truck you drive to work each day in your own driveway. You have to keep it in the garage or not at all.

Yet another example of why I loathe HOAs. Stupid crap like this.

 

[Supervstech]

Today i am meeting with my city official because i have too many vehicles.

Last year when they complained my equipment scrap was too spread out, i specifically asked if i could park the backup work vehicles in my parking lot...

Today, they are complaining i have too many vehicles in my parking lot and need to get them removed.

They have business lettering on them, and they are clearly business vehicles.

Parked in the parking lot of my business...

All forms of control irritate me.

But can they not keep their rules straight?

 

[Texas-Mark]

When I pointed you to a video documenting some of that you said you weren't interested. Therefore, you are choosing to ignore others bad lived experiences in favor of your own good one.

If I or someone made a video about good experiences, would you care to watch it? I doubt it. Even if you did, you would most likely say it was all BS. Therefore, you would also be choosing to ignore those that have had no issues with HOAs. I already said I understand that some people can't stand HOAs for whatever their reason. Not sure what more you expect

 

[Brucey]

Today i am meeting with my city official because i have too many vehicles.

Last year when they complained my equipment scrap was too spread out, i specifically asked if i could park the backup work vehicles in my parking lot...

Today, they are complaining i have too many vehicles in my parking lot and need to get them removed.

They have business lettering on them, and they are clearly business vehicles.

Parked in the parking lot of my business...

All forms of control irritate me.

But can they not keep their rules straight?

Let them give you a specific citation. We have a bunch of old vehicles in the backyard of 2 acre rural property.

Various allegations like "im running a junkyard" etc. Now these are vehicles owned and titled by me and family, but not necessarily road worthy or inspected. I put them in some little sheletr logic tent type shelters. Out of sight, apparently not an issue. Now that one they specifically have code about only one unregistered used car out front for sale etc so I knew they had some actual legitimacy to their claim.

I could see an issue if you are running a business out of a residential property and have guys parking their vehicles there but sounds like a commercial enterprise?

 

[PVGeezer]

If I or someone made a video about good experiences, would you care to watch it? I doubt it. Even if you did, you would most likely say it was all BS. Threfore, you would also be choosing to ignore those that have had no issues with HOAs.

No, I think some folks have had acceptable experiences with their HOAs. My Dad was in one in Hawaii in one of the huge subdivisions they have on the Big Island. All it did was road maintenance for the internal subdivision roads, which seemed to be more or less fine.

I already said I understand that some people can't stand HOAs for whatever their reason. Not sure what more you expect

What you perhaps might not realize (and could have learned from watching the video) is that there are pervasive systemic problems, including grift and corruption, in the HOA industry. So it shouldn't be surprising when some folks here react negatively to the idea of someone turning their neighbor in to the HOA.

 

[Farm Boy]

When I was in my 20's 1983 I built my dream home back in a woods from my parents farm 1200ft off the road where I started with nothing. When it's summer my closest neighbor who lives in front at the road can't see nothing due to the growth. I can walk into my yard in my under ware take a pie and no one will care. As I said, my son lives in an HOA community, every one seems happy with there alike places and rules and with high incomes like 200k plus a year, there is no need for solar. We all have a choice where to live and abiding with the rules of the area you live is part of it.

 

[Supervstech]

Let them give you a specific citation. We have a bunch of old vehicles in the backyard of 2 acre rural property.

Various allegations like "im running a junkyard" etc. Now these are vehicles owned and titled by me and family, but not necessarily road worthy or inspected. I put them in some little sheletr logic tent type shelters. Out of sight, apparently not an issue. Now that one they specifically have code about only one unregistered used car out front for sale etc so I knew they had some actual legitimacy to their claim.

I could see an issue if you are running a business out of a residential property and have guys parking their vehicles there but sounds like a commercial enterprise?

Commercial properrty, commercial building, business operating.

Insanity.

 

[Zork Arg]

That's a bit extreme. Living with an HOA means signing away some property rights. Countless millions choose to do so in exchange for the benefits they provide. Don't ask me what they are, my nearest neighbor is 1.5 miles away.

Myself, I have always tried to live in areas with "no curbs, and no covenants..."

 

[fuzzmunky415]

Today i am meeting with my city official because i have too many vehicles.

Last year when they complained my equipment scrap was too spread out, i specifically asked if i could park the backup work vehicles in my parking lot...

Today, they are complaining i have too many vehicles in my parking lot and need to get them removed.

They have business lettering on them, and they are clearly business vehicles.

Parked in the parking lot of my business...

All forms of control irritate me.

But can they not keep their rules straight?

That's one of the points I tried to make earlier: 'arbitrary and capricious' is NOT limited to HOAs. At minimum, Rules and Reg's, CCnR's provide you with MORE guidance, and expectations, when published. Like Geezer mentioned, different cities, counties and towns have different ways of implementation and enforcement, often on the same exact rules. I disagree with him that National and state play less of a role (indeed most big rules are from National (Building, Electrical, OSHA, etc.), States typically augment these for their own circumstances, but it's the locals that are tasked with implementation and enforcement, and there is very little consistency, as you are experiencing. Like Geezer said, often these localities are only a few years/decades old, and are enforcing things for the first time (like new solar).

 

[PVGeezer]

I disagree with him that National and state play less of a role (indeed most big rules are from National (Building, Electrical, OSHA, etc.), States typically augment these for their own circumstances, but it's the locals that are tasked with implementation and enforcement, and there is very little consistency, as you are experiencing. Like Geezer said, often these localities are only a few years/decades old, and are enforcing things for the first time (like new solar).

I should have clarified my statement better. Yes codes like the NEC and the IBC are intended to be national in character but they are not governmental on the national level.

The codes are developed and maintained by private entities (the NFPA for the NEC and the ICC for the IBC, as examples). These entities have no enforcement authority. The codes are then adopted (often with modifications and at different revision levels) and enforced by each local authority as they see fit.

The federal government doesnt have anything to do with them except that sometimes a federal government employee might be on one of the committees. We had an NREL guy on one of the NEC panels I was on for example, but he didn't have any more rule making authority than I did as an industry rep.

So, unlike in the EU for example, there is no mechanism by which, say, a national rule could be promulgated in the US to standardize the permit packages for resi solar.

 

[ymd]

Since you have a solar rights law in your state I would suggest that you first read and understand that fully as well as your pertinent HOA rules. Is there a conflict? What are you required to submit to the HOA for the solar project?

Having reviewed the AHJ and HOA requirements, decide whether you want to stay with your 40 ft setbacks plus fencing or vegetation, or redesign for the 50 ft setback. As someone else has mentioned, remember the old adage, good fences make for good neighbors.

Your submittal will need to meet all the HOA requirements except when they conflict with state law. It will of course also need to meet all of your AHJ's requirements.

I would not open things up for additional review by requesting a variance except as a last resort, and it seems that you're not in that position. It sounds like you can install what you want two different ways without a variance so why would you be granted one? The variance process also includes community review so you'll be granting power to your neighbor(s) which he (they) doesnt (don't) have otherwise.

Check this but I suspect that the HOA rules will already require you and any future owner to maintain the vegetation or fence so maintenance concerns shouldn't be an issue.

Finally re the neighbor, once you have AHJ and HOA approval, then politely let him know you are proceeding. He knows (or soon will realize) that you can do this without his approval.

By interacting with him further during the planning process you are encouraging his preception that he has decision making power which he doesn't actually have. Continuing to interact with him under those conditions will only make him more frustrated. No one likes to have their power taken away from them, even if that power was an illusion in the first place.

He's going to be frustrated for awhile either way but by waiting till the end to communicate with him you will actually be reducing his frustration overall rather than increasing it.

Thanks for your very sane advice. I think it is best for me to remain 50' away from my property line as you suggest so that nobody has a say in how I build my system. The only issue would be that some of the panels would be in the shade of a wall for half the day. Maybe, that is the price I pay for keeping others from holding a veto on what I can do on my property. You are right about trying to get a variance. It would give me the best sun exposure if I can build my array going up to my property boundary. Clearly it would make my neighbor hate me even if I were to succeed in getting that variance (which I would probably won't). I would not even try that.

I was debating if I should respond to my neighbor's email. But, you are right. The more I engage with him at this point the more he might assume he has a decision making power and he would get frustrated as it dawns upon him that he did not have it. Best to let him know politely after I have all the permits and permissions from HOA. I would not want to develop bad relations with someone because of one issue.

Again, thanks for your advice.

 

[ymd]

I think on a roof may be more acceptable for folks in town, but I'd be sure to ask the council first because they can make you take it down plus their may have to be some permitting and inspections involved to make it safe and share in the county wealth.

I am sure that if I did a roof mount, it would be a much bigger eyesore for a lot of neighbors as our house is on a hill and our roof can be seen from across another hill too, than a ground mount. I am going through the process of getting county permits which will involve Engineering calculations for safety (which I have already done) and county inspections. The only issue is about my neighbor and a small chance of the HOA objections.

 

[ymd]

What you offered is camouflage to hide the panels. That does not do anything to make their life easier.

You did not offer anything that personally benefits their lives, only to cover up the panels.

You did not offer for instance some of the electricity, or back up power during an outage. You didn't bring them any food or wine.

Consider to offer to build something for them that they personally want, such as a shed or similar.

I did offer to plant some fruit trees in their yard for them to enjoy (they seem to enjoy fruit trees), I have invited them to dinner after we move in and join them on their evening walks. I think I am not THAT generous as to build them a shed and go through all the permitting processes for THEM!

 

[Brucey]

The only issue would be that some of the panels would be in the shade of a wall for half the day

Hard shade is not conducive to full power, how many panels will be shaded?

 

[mvonw]

Solar arrays do negatively impact abutting property values, but it also depends a lot on the site/location/property value. This is why my nearest neighbor is 20 miles away from me. My three 12kw arrays only attract some drunk hunters.