NEM 2.0 - Zero Dollar Electric Bill Possible?

Jerrys13

Solar Enthusiast
Well that was the case with Iraq so it makes sense. However there is little incentive for the sell back of off peak hours. On top of that there are very few back up battery option for micro inverter set ups which 99% of most houses are.
 

FilterGuy

What, me worry?
Actually the squeeze does come between 6 and 8 pm as the 12 mW of solar is ending for the day and people get home and turn on the appliances and cool air.

http://www.caiso.com/TodaysOutlook/Pages/index.html
You are absolutely correct, but think about what that implies. If utilities peak generation time is at a time that used to be off peak, then they are having to generate *less* power than they used to..... but the price they charge for power keeps going up.
 

time2roll

Photon Sorcerer
On my SCE bill the generation has been pretty flat. It is the distribution charges that are going exponential. I believe this is the grid upgrades to get us out of the 1950s. My area is fairly new so very reliable. The money is needed in older areas.

Yes I believe eventually daytime will be super off peak due to abundance of solar. Night will be off peak to run on battery, hydro,wind. On peak will remain in the evenings as it will rely heavily on battery or other stored energy. I wonder how this shift might affect business vs residential.

I think it would be even worse if we just stick to the old ways of nuke and coal.
 

FilterGuy

What, me worry?
I think it would be even worse if we just stick to the old ways of nuke and coal.
I believe solar has a place (or I would not be on this forum). However, with *any* technology, the important thing is to have a rational plan *before* we act.

Shutting down peaker plants before we have storage to cover peaks is not rational.
Adding more solar when the solar we have threatens the stability of the system is not rational.
Shutting down nukes before their scheduled end-of life is not rational.
Not even considering the newer nuke technologies like small, self contained melted salt reactors is not rational.

But...... since when did any of our politicians do anything rational.... particularly in CA.
 

Hedges

I See Electromagnetic Fields!
I do get a credit for excess kWh generation, and that pays about 75% of my connect charge for the year.

You can probably invest your money better somewhere else, rather than in extra PV to offset that $10/month or whatever fee.
I'm only credited the wholesale rate about $0.025/kWh for my net production.
Meanwhile, PG&E has contracted to pay the wholesale rate of about $0.10/kWh for power from a new PV plant.

Batteries aren't the answer, at least not at the prices available so far. Their cost is 2x to 10x what PV costs. You're better off pushing extra power into the grid and using that in place of a battery, even if you have to deliver 3 kWh off-peak to get back 1 kWh on-peak.

My grid-backup system has excess PV capacity (I consume credits with electric heating in the winter rather than burning gas.) It has a minimal battery, just enough for one night if grid fails. During the day battery recharges and excess PV runs all household loads.
 

Hedges

I See Electromagnetic Fields!
Adding more PV when we already have too much PV could be rational if inverters can be commanded to adjust output to match load. Just like most utility-scale generators of all types do.
It would mean PV system owners don't get to sell 100% of production to the grid, but they may get to sell more PV kWh than they would have if limited to "do no harm" capacity.
The hooks for this are cooked into UL-1741 SA, but I don't know how well it will work.
 

Short_Shot

Photon Sorcerer
Yep, presuming plenty of sunlight available year round. But would need a very powerful inverter preferably low-frequency type. In-rush loads from fridge compressors and power tool motors are big challenges. Not to mention typical A/C units.
All of those surge scenarios are easily dealt with via incremental updates.

And lots of insulation.
 
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