New calb cells came without screw holes!

[Pragmatica]

From the attached product specs:
Prismatic Lithium Ion Battery：
Model: L173F163

Page 9

9.3 禁止直接焊接电池和用钉子或其它利器刺穿电池。
Do not directly solder the cell or pierce it with a nail or other sharp object

Page 19

9.9 采用激光焊接机进行连接操作。
Laser-beam welding machine is used to connect terminals


Off Topic - Page 18 (bottom)

The blue insulating films, which wrapped over the metal shell batteries, can only provide insulation for the cell transportation. The films can’t provide the stable insulation protections for battery modules. The additional insulation protection measures should be added to the surface of cells according to the usage conditions, when the cells are used as modules or systems. Otherwise fire may occur. We suggest to use plastic, PC, PET, Rubber and foaming PU,etc to be the insulation protection material. Please contact our company for more information.

 

[DJSmiley]

That could have been me or someone else purchasing these cells. One always believes the cell terminals will come tapped....until now. I don't recall anything like this happening before.

Agree. This is a rather new 'development'. EVE was the most used here, which came with threads.
Lishen followed recently, also with the same M6 thread.

Most 100/105Ah cells are with M4 threads. And now, some 'new' brands appear. So it's easy to mistakely assume they are with threads also, which clearly isn't default.
So unless a seller clearly specifies this, or the buyer fully reads and understand the datasheet, it is a matter of time before people start complaining about this.
Sellers with good customer support, and good knowledge of customers demands, do understand this and inform people. But a lot of sellers on Alibaba are just packaging and shipping, and are NOT used to individuals, and more into businesses who have the proper equipment and buy many cells.

I've received a quote from Amy (Luyuan) for CATL cells. On the pictures she supplied I didn't see any threads. When asked, her reply was:
"CATL has no thread when it comes out from the manufacturer. We need to drill holes. Its holes will be the same as EVE's"

since it looks more vendors starting to sell cells without any thread or studs, it becomes something you have to pay attention to when ordering.
You're depending on the seller to drill threads or weld studs, or you need to have the proper equipment to DIY it (unlikely/risky).

There is a pretty nice topic with lots of usefull information about ordering, I think it was made by @ghostwriter66 but I can't find it ATM.
Might be nice to add a small item about terminals, studs and threads, since buyers have to be aware of this.

I think some more ppl would be unhappy when finding out their cells don't have threads/studs, and its a matter of time before more topics appear here about this issue.

 

[Dzl]

I agree with basically everything said in the comments above. Only thing I would add is this situation is one more reminder that this is a market where due diligence is definitely the responsibility of the buyer to a much larger extent than most of us are used to, especially when buying from a lesser known seller, especially when buying a new or lesser known cell model. That said, I think most of us would not have thought to ask about the cell terminals, I likely wouldn't have if I hadn't already heard this was the case with the new generation CALB cells. The seller may assume buyers know what they are purchasing, but at the very least they should have accurate pictures, and if they don't they certainly should be explicitly warning people the pictures are not accurate and the cells are untapped.

 

[Steve_S]

An FYI which is obviously not commonly known.
Most factory shipments of cells are without Tapped Threads and vendors have to have this done , most do subcontract it out.
Laser Welded Studs are not the norm because it costs more than to just tap the holes and provide bolts / screws.
CATL, EVE, CALB etc as manufacturers do not know what the end use will be and how interconnections will be done. Depending on target market, those requirements vary.

There is lot's of Potsulation, Theorization & Conjecture in here... even conclusions drawn on unfounded assumptions (99.99% fail there).

Did this Vendor Mess Up ? YES but was it intentional ? not likely.
Miscommunication via Translator Software is COMMON because it really sucks on subtleties ! The bane of many a Customer & Vendor. Clarity & being to the point is very important.

Something else to note, if a Vendor gets cells direct from a manufacturer, they will NOT be tapped, they will have blanks. A Manufacturer will do so for Large Contracted buys (1,000's of cells at a time).
If a Vendor buys from a "Broker" they could be new or old stock, a prepared stock that was unsold, or used / recycled stocks.

Within the 12 months, Lithium Batteries with various chemistries will be appearing made from Recovered & Recycled Lithium materials from used cells. This is happening in China, Canada, USA (Soon) and Europe with several recycling plants coming online. There are already some going into circulation but not main stream yet.

 

[schmism]

There is lot's of Potsulation, Theorization & Conjecture in here... even conclusions drawn on unfounded assumptions (99.99% fail there).

Within the 12 months, Lithium Batteries with various chemistries will be appearing made from Recovered & Recycled Lithium materials from used cells. This is happening in China, Canada, USA (Soon) and Europe with several recycling plants coming online. There are already some going into circulation but not main stream yet.

Were does this information come from?

 

[Steve_S]

1) I am financially invested into TWO recycling Companies, you may have heard that Eastman Kodak Factory in NYS is being recycled into a Lithiun Battery Recycling & Processing centre. News | Lithium-ion Battery Recycling - Resourcre Recovery | Li-Cycle (li-cycle.com)

2) NorthVolt, LG, Panasonic have all announced their Euro Operations will include recycling facilities. LG & Panasonic also said similar for USA.

3) Several Chinese Companies are already doing so with certain limitations at this time....

You can practice your google foo for more.

 

[Dzl]

An FYI which is obviously not commonly known.
Most factory shipments of cells are without Tapped Threads and vendors have to have this done , most do subcontract it out.
Laser Welded Studs are not the norm because it costs more than to just tap the holes and provide bolts / screws.
CATL, EVE, CALB etc as manufacturers do not know what the end use will be and how interconnections will be done. Depending on target market, those requirements vary.

I don't doubt this is true in many cases, particularly with companies like CATL and other large commodity manufacturers that deal mostly with other large and medium businesses, but at least with regards to CALB, my understanding is that this is the first (or possibly second) mainstream model that is not available tapped and threaded from the factory.

In regards to EVE, I honestly don't know what their process is, what I do know is the previous version 280Ah cell (LF280) was at least available from the manufacturer tapped w/ hardware (through their Alibaba storefront), the current model LF280N is only available through their storefront with the untapped terminal for laser welding, though they did state they could tap the terminals by special order not sure what the MOQ would be or what the fee would be.

Did this Vendor Mess Up ? YES but was it intentional ? not likely.

I agree that it is not necessarily intentional. But whether it was intentional or not resellers can/should do better at accurately representing their product. Using inaccurate pictures or showing the wrong cells is a widespread practice, as is stating a bunch of conflicting info in the title or description to game the search algorithm. One thing that needs improving almost across the board is accurate and non-conflicting info in sales ads on alibaba / aliexpress.

 

[Steve_S]

across the board is accurate and non-conflicting info in sales ads on alibaba / aliexpress.

eBay and Amazon included nut shenanigans get caught quite fast there. I'm not the only one to have bought something on those two platforms and received something not quite as advertised.

 

[Gazoo]

eBay and Amazon included nut shenanigans get caught quite fast there. I'm not the only one to have bought something on those two platforms and received something not quite as advertised.

Is shubin a naughty word?

 

[22bull]

Ok here are some close ups of the QR code and some serial numbers on the calb cells can anyone verify these are Calb brand based on the numbers ? U used my iPhone and it does not recognise the QR code. Maybe I am doing something wrong?

 

[Goodoz]

Consider having terminals welded on like the Fortune cells ?

While I would want new, proper cells...that's an easy garage project.

 

[Dzl]

Ok here are some close ups of the QR code and some serial numbers on the calb cells can anyone verify these are Calb brand based on the numbers ? U used my iPhone and it does not recognise the QR code. Maybe I am doing something wrong?

This forum autoresizes images to a format that makes it hard to make out detail.
A closeup of one of the QR codes or a larger image hosted off site would make it easier to see.

 

[upnorthandpersonal]

This forum autoresizes images to a format that makes it hard to make out detail.

@Will Prowse : should we change that to allow larger images?

 

[Dzl]

@Will Prowse : should we change that to allow larger images?

It would certainly make it easier to read schematics and diagrams if the limit were relaxed a bit. So its a change I would welcome.
On the other hand, hosting larger images offsite is not a huge inconvenience.

 

[DJSmiley]

It would certainly make it easier to read schematics and diagrams if the limit were relaxed a bit. So its a change I would welcome.
On the other hand, hosting larger images offsite is not a huge inconvenience.

No, but offsite images are less reliable. Lots of hosts expire their uploaded images rather shortly, randomly stop, hosting is cancelled by user and so on. Beeing able to host within the forum gives much more reliable hosting, expecially if someone is looking for resources and finds some older posts. Nothing is more annoying than a very interesting post, but non-working pictures / schematics.

Only disadvantage is it requires more diskspace and bandwith, potentially requiring Will to spend more $$$ on hosting. But nowadays that's not the biggest cost anymore.

From a user perspective, it's just convenient to be able to upload/paste images directly. If hosting costs is a concern, I know some other forums who allow eg 50Mb by each user, and up to eg 1Gb for each donating user, to generate some money to cover the hosting.

 

[upnorthandpersonal]

Hosting space and bandwidth are not an issue. If @Will Prowse gives the go ahead, we can make the change.

 

[Steve_S]

I upload a lot of images...
Found that uploading at 1024x1024 size goes fine BUT only IF it is posted as a ThumbNail in the post that opens to full size.
I resize larger images down to 1024x1024, I do not recall trying a larger format.

Form a FORUM Software Perspective.
These images are stored as BLOBS in the SQLDB and that has to be limited.
1024x1024 JPG is 1.5mb
It does not take very long to stuff a DB with blob data such as images and it will grow significantly.
Different DB Engines can handle such data differently. This is likely using MySql or MariaDB which aren't bad at it.
Larger Datablobs become problematic serving out if the traffic is high... This site already stresses occassionally.

 

[upnorthandpersonal]

Attachments are stored on the file system, including images - not as blobs in the db.

 

[Steve_S]

Attachments are stored on the file system, including images - not as blobs in the db.

Ohh thank goodness. Blob Handling is such a PITA !
We had to mod stuff to store large data blobs externally as well...
We also discovered how to crush DB's with huge blobs...
(virtual World software development with personal (user) "inventory / assets" that had to be stored.)

 

[22bull]

OK I cropped the image and resized. Hopefully this works?

 

[Bob Steel]

I believe this is not a QR code but rather a numbering system used by the manufacturer for its own purposes not disclosed.
Usually the code obtained from the image is the number you see above and below the pixel block.

 

[Will Prowse]

We can increase it a tad. If we bog down the servers, it will slow it down. I can upgrade our package to allow for more speed if need be, but it might cost a bit more. We can try it.

Not sure if you guys can tell, but the site is growing everyday. Check out the traffic for 2020:


I want to ensure that it does not cost too much in the future. I pay for this site 100%, no corporate involvement of any kind. And I will keep this site going till the day I die, and let someone manage it there after. If the sites hosting fees were to cost too much, I would probably downsize the photos first. But we can try it. The server is dirt cheap but I know that this site has potential to grow like crazy in the next decade.

 

[Will Prowse]

And the hosting provider says it has "unlimited" stats, but as the space used on our server increases, they stated it could slow down. Then I'd pay more to speed it up.

I did increase it by quite a bit to see how fast it grows. It is at 35Mb now

 

[Ampster]

I believe this is not a QR code

I was able to read the code on my EVE cells purchased in May with a QR code reader and the numbers read corresponded to the numbers around the border. There are other threads that interprete those codes with date of manufacture and other data besides just the serial number.

 

[Bob Steel]

I was able to read the code on my EVE cells purchased in May with a QR code reader and the numbers read corresponded to the numbers around the border. There are other threads that interprete those codes with date of manufacture and other data besides just the serial number.

Can you give any links to how the numbers might be interpreted further?