New helical wind turbine fence concept

[cs1234]

Politicians talking?

That doesn't explain it, they are always talking.

 

[robbob2112]

That doesn't explain it, they are always talking.

Politicians multiplying in close proximity to you?

 

[Ray Clout]

Not because it is VAWT, rather because it is a "drag" device like an anemometer, not a "lift" device with an airfoil.

Air foils run much faster than the wind and produce more power per unit area. But they stall with turbulence then produce much less.

What kind were you involved with? Got photos?

 

[Hedges]

Those do look like airfoils, working from lift.
Should move much faster than the wind.

@brandnewb

 

[brandnewb]

Those do look like airfoils, working from lift.
Should move much faster than the wind.

@brandnewb

yes indeed Hedges,

And that is exactly why I fear them airfoils.

I am really not at a craftsmen level yet that I feel safe with something fast spinning on my lawn.

Mind you that the angular speed of air foil blades should be closer to 4 to 6 times (or something like that) than the wind is blowing.

I gladly trade in efficiency for peace of mind. Hence me still using cups

But then again. Air Wheels(TM) might become a thing soon enough!!

 

[JoeHam]

I’ve seen something similar at DTW airport since 2010 :

Earth Day Breezes into Detroit Metro Airport

WCAA marked today’s celebration of Earth Day 2010 with the debut of its $75,000 investment in exploring the feasibility of putting DTW's wind to work supplementing the Airport’s power supply...

www.internationalairportreview.com

 

[brandnewb]

But one of the most important aspect always is. What does one expect to get out of the turbine?

Now for VAWT one can indeed increase the yield by going up as does going wide.

However I have learned that it is easy to underestimate the forces involved with going larger. It is not something to take light.

I think with anythying below a 2 m radius and a 2m height is going to be great if one is aiming for small results. I mean if that is the goal then it is awesome to actually get there.

But once the crosshairs are a little up then all of a sudden a little gust of wind will tear the turbine apart if one has not taken that into account.

 

[wpns]

Small wind turbines are the worst. Before I took it down so it wouldn’t fall on my solar array my VAWT created power at almost exactly $100/KWHR. The museum of science in Boston tested a bunch of them on the roof of their building, and none of them worked at all well. Stick with solar.

 

[brandnewb]

not sure already mentioned but here you go

Wind Turbine Calculator

The wind turbine calculator finds the power output, efficiency, RPM, torque, and revenue of a wind turbine (either HAVT or VAWT).

www.omnicalculator.com

and indeed. small scale is rather useless

 

[OffGridForGood]

Every winter, when the sun goes missing for weeks on end,
and the wind comes up blowing hard,
I get tempted, and then I re-read all these threads...so I don't build a wind turbine.

 

[Madcodger]

Every winter, when the sun goes missing for weeks on end,
and the wind comes up blowing hard,
I get tempted, and then I re-read all these threads...so I don't build a wind turbine.

Amen. I will likely still attempt it one day after I retire, just for fun, as the winter days also lead to boredom. But I've yet to see anyone happy with their wind project as a real solution.

 

[OzSolar]

Not because it is VAWT, rather because it is a "drag" device like an anemometer, not a "lift" device with an airfoil.

Air foils run much faster than the wind and produce more power per unit area. But they stall with turbulence then produce much less.

What kind were you involved with? Got photos?

Data would be even better.

 

[brandnewb]

Patience patience my dear brothers and sisters.

I am nearing the data stage

 

[sak54895]

Not true. These are VAWT....vertical axis wind turbines...and unlike the horizontal axis type are quite happy to work in wind gusts or disturbed air around buildings. I was involved in installing a 12kw VAWT on the roof of a 17 story building in the middle of the city, with multiple surrounding tall buildings. A wind survey was performed in a wind tunnel of a model of the surrounding precinct. The results showed that wind was disturbed radically....racing up the side of the building and spilling over onto the roof...cross drafts...etc. The VAWT performed very happily with no issues. The point is the VAWT is actually designed to operate in urban environments

The 1/7 power law applies to all wind systems. If your not up into clean air you will not get the most out of any wind system.

 

[OzSolar]

I’ve seen something similar at DTW airport since 2010 :

Earth Day Breezes into Detroit Metro Airport

WCAA marked today’s celebration of Earth Day 2010 with the debut of its $75,000 investment in exploring the feasibility of putting DTW's wind to work supplementing the Airport’s power supply...

www.internationalairportreview.com

Wonder if they are still there?

That company went out of business long ago. Not long after NREL’s report came out. 108 kWh in just under 5 months when NREL cancelled the test because the turbine kept failing.

I’ve watched this stuff closely for a long time and have never seen a VAWT that actually worked, certainly not for more than a year. Many say they do but none can ever provide the data when asked for it.

https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy09osti/45552.pdf

 

[OffGridForGood]

Many say they do but none can ever provide the data when asked for it.

I wonder about the cost of the maintenence also.

 

[Hedges]

Wonder if they are still there?

That company went out of business long ago. Not long after NREL’s report came out. 108 kWh in just under 5 months when NREL cancelled the test because the turbine kept failing.

I’ve watched this stuff closely for a long time and have never seen a VAWT that actually worked, certainly not for more than a year. Many say they do but none can ever provide the data when asked for it.

https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy09osti/45552.pdf

Here is Windspire, without the name Mariah.

Windspire Verticle Axis Wind Turbines, 750W, 2kW, 3kW, 5kW Systems

Windspire Vertical Axis Wind Turbines are available in 750w, 2 kW, 3kW and 5kW wind turbine systems. All of our wind turbines are available with options

www.windspireenergy.com

 

[OzSolar]

Here is Windspire, without the name Mariah.

Windspire Verticle Axis Wind Turbines, 750W, 2kW, 3kW, 5kW Systems

Windspire Vertical Axis Wind Turbines are available in 750w, 2 kW, 3kW and 5kW wind turbine systems. All of our wind turbines are available with options

www.windspireenergy.com

30 FEET TALL!

Wow… they publish that their 1 kW 30’ tall turbine can do 2650 kWh/year, but of course you’d have a pretty hard time finding a 3rd party that could verify that.

My educated guess is you might get 1/4 of that if you were really lucky.

 

[wpns]

Wonder if they are still there?

That company went out of business long ago. Not long after NREL’s report came out. 108 kWh in just under 5 months when NREL cancelled the test because the turbine kept failing.

I’ve watched this stuff closely for a long time and have never seen a VAWT that actually worked, certainly not for more than a year. Many say they do but none can ever provide the data when asked for it.

https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy09osti/45552.pdf

Indeed, I had the Miraiah Power Windspire. We now call it "Willie's Folly:", and I use it as the base of a ham radio antenna.

 

[wpns]

30 FEET TALL!

Wow… they publish that their 1 kW 30’ tall turbine can do 2650 kWh/year, but of course you’d have a pretty hard time finding a 3rd party that could verify that.

My educated guess is you might get 1/4 of that if you were really lucky.

I was in negotiations with them to get the extension for another 15 feet higher when I threw in the towel. It would spin up, the generator would kick in, the rotor would spin down, rinse, later repeat.

 

[cs1234]

Anybody gotten pricing on them? I'm curious what you pay for that level of electrical generation, 30' high, with a whopping 3 year guarantee.

 

[Hedges]

"@ average 12.5 mph wind speed"

It comes with an assumption. If met, probably true so long as MTBF >= 1 year.

But what does "Average" mean? We usually think of "Mean". There is also "Median" and "RMS".
But wind power goes as V^3.

I was in negotiations with them to get the extension for another 15 feet higher when I threw in the towel. It would spin up, the generator would kick in, the rotor would spin down, rinse, later repeat.

Control loop hunting?
Are PID or other parameters tunable?

 

[OzSolar]

I wonder about the cost of the maintenence also.

Right. That NREL report I shared in the previous post does a good job of pointing out the struggles they had keeping it going. To be fair, some of those were probably to be expected from any new to market product.

10 and likely even 20 years from now 99% of solar panels installed today will still be cranking out 80% or more of their original annual kWh.

I've never* seen a small wind turbine make more than 20% of what is the manufacturers annual rated kWh or last more than a few years. ---it's important to remember that we don't care about instantaneous kW (some might try to call it amps). We only care about monthly usable kWh.--

*there were a few exceptions to this but were so rare and were so expensive, coupled they haven't been made for DECADES that I'm comfortable saying that today there is no small wind turbine, VAWT or HAWT, that is worth with even running wire to let alone the cost of it and it's tower.

Feel free to debate me on that, just bring some data to support your claims.

Don't get me wrong, I will always think small wind is cool but from a $/kWh it’s a loser compared to solar.

 

[OzSolar]

I was in negotiations with them to get the extension for another 15 feet higher when I threw in the towel. It would spin up, the generator would kick in, the rotor would spin down, rinse, later repeat.

That proves it’s an airfoil. As soon as it loads the generator the rotor slows down which reduces the lift.

Compare it to the stall speed on an airplane. There’s a certain speed it has to get up to before it can generate enough lift to fly. (Most here already know that)

 

[cs1234]

That proves it’s an airfoil. As soon as it loads the generator the rotor slows down which reduces the lift.

Compare it to the stall speed on an airplane. There’s a certain speed it has to get up to before it can generate enough lift to fly. (Most here already know that)

Like nuclear fusion , what if you got it up past that hump with some other power source.. could wind take it from there? And you just always supply it with just enough to keep it spinning when necessary..