As long as the BMS uses a familiar protocol to the inverter.what about batteries. It says make sure the lithium ion battery is compatible? Can DIY LiFepo4 cells be used?
The bms has to communicate with this inverter? Sometimes lead acid can be selected to avoid that. Would it be possible to do that with this inverter and still use LiFepo4?As long as the BMS uses a familiar protocol to the inverter.
EG: I think/hope the seplos BMS using the pylon can bus protocol should work.
I ordered a luxpower and already have the seplos. Will follow up once everything arrives and is hooked up.
Wow that gets a bit expensive... I may need to look closer at Growatt again 3800 bucks is pretty pricey for an experimental unir...Shipping is approx $650USD via air. I don't think they ship it any other way currently, unless you buy a lot of pieces, in which case they ship by boat. My original shipment from them, earlier in the year, was 5 pieces that weighed 1100lbs after crating. So, it was shipped via boat and costs $2200 for shipping direct to my door.
Absolutely. but you will miss out on a lot of things.The bms has to communicate with this inverter? Sometimes lead acid can be selected to avoid that. Would it be possible to do that with this inverter and still use LiFepo4?
Well that’s good. Many inverters are starting that proprietary battery BS..Absolutely. but you will miss out on a lot of things.
Voltage drop is much more indication of SoC with Lead acid than with li-ion batteries.
So if you choose lead acid and put it voltage for full/empty you will not get full use of your battery capacity.
My current inverter communicating with my current batteries eg knows I have 4 batteries in parallel and adjusts charge current.
If for some reason 1 battery would disconnect itself, it would auto regulate the max charge/discharge current.
I would prefer with BMS communication.
I have been surprised by the amount of protocols (hardware: RS485 & CAN BUS) and the software protocols that are shown:Well that’s good. Many inverters are starting that proprietary battery BS..
Deye
Foxess
Goodwe
Growatt
IMEON
LUXPOWER
Renac
Sermatec
SMA (probably european inverters only)
Sofar
Solis
TBB POWER
Victron
Growatt
Phocos
Voitronic
Excellent. If it works for you, don't change it!I have never had battery/bms communication with an inverter. I might like it if I had it but I haven’t needed it yet. I think I have been getting full use of my battery capacity without bms/inverter communication. I don’t discharge my batteries to 0% anyways..
Yep, higher internal resistance.I kinda understand what your saying regarding voltage drop with such a flat part of the voltage curve for LiFePo4. But doesn’t lead acid have more of a voltage drop when a load turns on than Li-ion?
I think there are enough threads on this forum about that.With the previous bms cells I had voltage was a very good indicator of SOC..
To be clear though if using lead acid profile, equalize can be turned off and the voltages for float and absorb can be changed to whatever is wanted?
Mine was shipped air and I got it in two days for $650 to a super remote area of New Mexico. Didn't have to pay anything for customs.Just got this from GSL Ive read through this thread seems like numbers are all over the place with these things from cost to shipping... Im assuming this shipping quote doesnt include customs etc????
Air shipping cost is USD 580 for 1 pc 12Kw inverter,7-10 days in transit ,the unit
price is USD 3100/pc for 12KW inverter, we have stock right now,if you are ready
to pay,i can make an invoice to you.
Thank you
Hi Cheap 4-Life,The manual does appear to indicate a bi-directional AC input..
what about batteries. It says make sure the lithium ion battery is compatible? Can DIY LiFepo4 cells be used?
NICK PAN | SHENZHEN GSL ENERGY CO., LTD. |
Whatsapp&Wechat: +86 19926456603 | Email: nick.pan@gsl-energy.com |
10kWh powerwall
14.3kWh powerwall
6500 cycles at 80% DOD
I didn't know that. My plan is to have (2) power walls either 20KW 400AH or 28 KW 560AH.Realize that for that amount of cycles you are "only" capable of
10kwh x 0.8 = 8kWh for the small one
14.3kWh x 0.8 = 11.44 kWh usable for the inverter from the larger battery.
Make sure you have enough storage energy hooked up to your inverter.
If you order DDP (Delivery and Duty Paid), then the price quoted should be your total cost.Just got this from GSL Ive read through this thread seems like numbers are all over the place with these things from cost to shipping... Im assuming this shipping quote doesnt include customs etc????
Air shipping cost is USD 580 for 1 pc 12Kw inverter,7-10 days in transit ,the unit
price is USD 3100/pc for 12KW inverter, we have stock right now,if you are ready
to pay,i can make an invoice to you.
Thank you
Again, I didn't know that. I knew of the issue, but for some reason, I thought it was a DC issue causing contacts to damage or welding contacts closed. I will reread the article and/or other articles to make sure that this issue does in fact applies to 240VAC. The article also said that the relays would need to work together, hybrid inverters have a master with the rest as slaves working together.Read this:
Is it good practice to parallel relay contacts for increased current capacity?
Say I have a DPDT relay, like T92S7D12-24. The contacts of this relay are rated for 30A, but there are two sets of contacts. Can I parallel the contacts to get an effective 60A relay? Further, coul...electronics.stackexchange.com
I still would not parallel relays.
Doesn't matter if it is AC or DC. Specs are specs.Again, I didn't know that. I knew of the issue, but for some reason, I thought it was a DC issue causing contacts to damage or welding contacts closed.
If you would have parallel relays and they would all really switch at the same time, technically it would be possible.I will reread the article and/or other articles to make sure that this issue does in fact applies to 240VAC. The article also said that the relays would need to work together, hybrid inverters have a master with the rest as slaves working together.
Technically with a 200 amp main breaker, the NEC says you are only allowed to pull 80% through that for a long time.I also thought the limitation was the hybrid inverter UPS off-grid rating of 12KW or 240@50A not the actual 200A bypass relay. The relay is rated at 200A and will bypass 190A when in on-grid mode or no power outage.
Makes me ask the question, what the point of paralleling 10 hybrid inverters, if you are limited to 12000 watts or 240V@50A when in off-grid.
Hopefully, your explanation above is a verification that I requested from a post that stated (2) GSL inverters in parallel provides 240V@100A.:Grid goes down, relay OPENS, now the output of the inverter is no longer tied to the grid.
Whatever the inverter produces goes to the load (panel)
Limited to 50 amps max, coming from either PV and/or batteries
Now imagine 2 outputs of inverters hooked together: 2 x 50 amp =100 amp combined output , already 50% of grid
You can do the math:
3 inverters x 50 each = 150 amps capable
4 inverters x 50 each = 200 amps capable <- same as the grid.
More inverters are only needed if your load is more than 200 amp (eg 400 amp panel you would need 8 inverters)
Hope i explained this the right way.
Hopefully, your explanation above is a verification that I requested from a post that stated (2) GSL inverters in parallel provides 240V@100A.:
Spot on"A single GSL-H-12KLV-US when off grid is limited to 12,000 watts and the UPS is limited to 12,000 watts or 240V@50A. If we connect 20KW 400AH batteries to the battery connection, the UPS maximum continuous current is still limited to 240V@50A. In this scenario, if you connect a 60A load, you will trip the inverter even with fully charge 400AH batteries.
If we connect a second GSL-H-12KLV-US hybrid inverter in parallel. This will provide 24,000 watts or 240V@100A and now the 60A will not trip the inverters in parallel. Each inverter will now see an approximate 30A load. Our off-grid capacity is now 24,000 watts or 240V@100A."
Why wouldn't you do that?Technically, the solar panels are connected to existing GT inverters and are simply AC couple to the (2) new GSL hybrid inverters and new batteries are connected to the (2) new GSL hybrid inverters. No solar panels are connected to the MPPTs on the (2) new GSL hybrid inverters.
But your current GT inverters will take 5 minutes pause before starting to help.In a power outage, the (2) GSL hybrid inverters are matching consumption or the actual load with the new batteries. The (2) GSL hybrid inverters are AC coupled to the existing GT inverters to control solar production as needed for the batteries on/off settings by varying the mini-grid frequency from 60 to 62.5 Hz.
Not really, the freq will be moved out of spec so the GT inverters will back off. As soon as they come down within range they will assist again.In reality the existing inverters production is first used by the load and what is left is used to charge the batteries. Once the batteries reach their programmed charge setting the existing inverters are turned off.
Again, I really do appreciate your help and insight. At times, I have a tendency to read what I want to read versus what it actually meant. I hope that this is not one of those times. Thanks, Steve
Good to know that the new hybrid inverter must have solar panels that I can't simply AC couple with batteries to make the existing GT inverters work. I understood to AC couple that you needed batteries to cycle the AC couple inverters with the batteries state of charge but didn't know that the solar panels were also required to be connected to the hybrid inverter in order to make a mini-grid.Why wouldn't you do that?
The moment the grid disappears and the LP inverter(s) take over ( using the batteries) your AC coupled inverters will stop working.
Your current inverters will see the new grid from the LP and start a countdown of 300 secs/5 minutes before starting to help take over the load.
If/when you have PV hooked up to LP they immediately start helping.
At least consider hooking up 1 set of PV panels to the LP, maybe a second set as well and leave one set connected to your AC grid tied inverter.
But your current GT inverters will take 5 minutes pause before starting to help.
Not really, the freq will be moved out of spec so the GT inverters will back off. As soon as they come down within range they will assist again.
If they were turned off, they would do the 5 min wait again after being turned on again.