New NEC code makes it impossible for DIY systems to be compliant

[curiouscarbon]

i have ~10 kilowatt hours of batteries from sources that are not clearly UL listed or recognized or seen.

all seemingly new, seemingly good quality (CATL ~300Ah, Frey 100Ah) yet some regulatory input seems to view them as "unable to be trusted"

despite this, i believe due diligence has been done and safety at the cell level is higher than with commercial (non-LiFePO4) LiPo powerwalls.

in spite of all this, i'll still move forward and build my own darn solution. the options today are improving, but do not serve my needs.

logging of cell activity for diagnosis, REQUIRED for me. flexibility is required for me.

cheers to all here!

 

[JRH]

You are correct… Solar energy is like a waterfall that we are just learning to drink from .
your cartoon says it all about how tech evolves.

 

[TheCornerDweller]

Ul database
file# mh63648
bb6a2.mh63648
3.2v 280ah lifepo4
Ul9540a
Ul1973
Iec62619

 

[Ampster]

Ul database
file# mh63648
bb6a2.mh63648
3.2v 280ah lifepo4
Ul9540a
Ul1973
Iec62619

I have the same cells , or maybe not, and they do not say anything like that. That database is behind a paywall, Did you get a certificate that the AHJ accepted.
That would be one component of the ESS system. Did your AHJ require the same listing for busbars, BMS, wiring fuses and other components?

 

[TheCornerDweller]

I'm still working on my setup for them to approve.

I have the same cells , or maybe not, and they do not say anything like that. That database is behind a paywall, Did you get a certificate that the AHJ accepted.
That would be one component of the ESS system. Did your AHJ require the same listing for busbars, BMS, wiring fuses and other component

 

[Phineas]

I was just researching the NEC and stumbled on something I did not know.

https://www.ul.com/news/2020-nec-addresses-electrical-safety-what-code-officials-need-know

Also, Section 706.5 has been revised to simply state that ESS are to be listed. This is a significant change because now an ESS must be listed as a complete energy storage system and is no longer permitted to be made up of a field assembly of listed components.​

Most of our DIY systems were not going to be 100% compliant anyway, but this sounds like it makes it impossible for a DIY to build an NEC compliant battery system... Is this other folks understanding as well?

For the most part I have learned that the NEC makes rules for good reason, but this sure feels like they were influenced by the makers of complete systems.

It seems like a system greater than 50 V or 1 kW needs to be specially inspected, if the ESS falls under the code’s purview.

 

[Ampster]

I'm still working on my setup for them to approve.

I hope for the best. Your persistence may be a good lesson for pessimists like me.

 

[Ampster]

It seems like a system greater than 50 V or 1 kW

Does that mean if I can prove that I only discharge my 42kWh pack at 1kW they will pass it? I would also happily reduce the size by making my CV setting 49.9 volts. hopefully they are not using nominal voltage of 3.2 volts per cell?

 

[TheCornerDweller]

It seems like a system greater than 50 V or 1 kW needs to be specially inspected, if the ESS falls under the code’s purview.

50v ac or 60v d.c..... so most of the diy systems are up to 51.2v d.c.... just saying.

 

[wmgeorge]

Does it really say UL approved? Most of the Code says Listed, they got in trouble years back by saying UL approval needed, now it has to be Listed and then or approved by the AHJ.

 

[copec]

I’m reading https://www.nfpa.org/News-and-Resea...Residential-Energy-Storage-System-Regulations and my question is: Can one have multiple units of Energy Storage Systems installed? - Although I plan on continuing to fly under the radar anyways…

 

[Ampster]

Can one have multiple units of Energy Storage Systems installed? -

It depends on where NEC2020 and NFPA overlap and if one or both are adopted by your jurisdiction. Until that is clear, I am remaining under the radar.

 

[ncsolarelectric]

I am not ready to give up on democratic capitalism either. There is no better system..... but like all systems it can be corrupted.

Back to my original statement:
" For the most part I have learned that the NEC makes rules for good reason, but this sure feels like they were influenced by the makers of complete systems."

Since I posted that statement I searched a little to find more information on why this change was was made and have not found much. However, I have come to see some logic to it. As we all know, these systems are just that: Systems. You can easily take a set of listed components and build a very bad and dangerous system.... just one wrong setting can make a big problem.

If you dig down into the wording of the code, It is possible to build a system out of the same listed components us DIYers might use. In fact, it can even be built in the field (Field Wiring). However, the total design must also be listed in order to be code compliant.

The NEC was faced with a problem where it was extremely complex for them to specify all of the parameters of a system in a way that a local code-compliance officer could verify. Consequently, they chose to move the system design (and listing) up stream from the installation. Now the code-compliance officer just needs to look for the system listing and does not have to check all of the parameters of the system.

So....I understand what likely happened and I may have been too quick to assume improper influence. I might even agree that it makes good sense. (I have met my local electrical inspector and I can assure you he would have no clue what to make of the simplist battery system I have built.) However, it still is irksome to me that I can't make a system that is to code no matter how safe it is.

The energy storage field is in it's early days and things are changing rapidly... consequently the NEC is playing catch-up and every new version of the code is getting big changes in the solar and storage area. Unfortunately, I don't see this slowing down anytime soon, particularly in storage.
Perhaps over time more industry standards will come into play and things will become more plug-n-play. (This is in the capitalistic interest of the various component makers) Till then the NEC is dealing with the wild-wild west.

If you have the $$$ you can contact UL or ETL and have them send out an inspector, who will do a UL Listing Investigation on-site, and if it complies with the appropriate standard, you will have listed your system to meet code. This is a common practice on commercial solar sites when we do things that the AHJ doesn't feel comfortable approving.

 

[copec]

It is all so stupid. How many people die of being electrocuted from PV, or a battery fire every year? If there's even a risk some middling bureaucrat makes it their life mission for all of us to collectively spend a billion dollars to prevent even the possibility. I guarantee several orders of magnitude more people will die from air-quality related diseases from dirty energy sources than were ever prevented by all this red-tape and consequent large price inflation hampering clean energy usage.

Edit: I'm just angry because I'm having to deal with this now. I can either disconnect the battery since I am using a Deye, and reconnect it under the radar (most likely option), or find some good sealed lead-acid batteries (we are limited to 8kw net-metering output so I'll definitely use them for more than backup only, but for self-consumption of power too), but I actually made my battery stack out of used G1 Nissan Leaf cells five years ago, and added a Nuvation Energy low-voltage BMS a couple of years ago (which I found out *is* actually UL 1973 Recognized). So I was thinking of spinning it as a detached shed 5' away with repurposed EV batteries per IRC R327.2 but my city takes a week to get back to me for every question.

 

[RandyP]

UL Recognized is likely the most you'll find on a battery.
...................

Unless its a Battle Born Battery.

 

[Shimmy]

It is all so stupid. How many people die of being electrocuted from PV, or a battery fire every year? If there's even a risk some middling bureaucrat makes it their life mission for all of us to collectively spend a billion dollars to prevent even the possibility. I guarantee several orders of magnitude more people will die from air-quality related diseases from dirty energy sources than were ever prevented by all this red-tape and consequent large price inflation hampering clean energy usage.

Edit: I'm just angry because I'm having to deal with this now. I can either disconnect the battery since I am using a Deye, and reconnect it under the radar (most likely option), or find some good sealed lead-acid batteries (we are limited to 8kw net-metering output so I'll definitely use them for more than backup only, but for self-consumption of power too), but I actually made my battery stack out of used G1 Nissan Leaf cells five years ago, and added a Nuvation Energy low-voltage BMS a couple of years ago (which I found out *is* actually UL 1973 Recognized). So I was thinking of spinning it as a detached shed 5' away with repurposed EV batteries per IRC R327.2 but my city takes a week to get back to me for every question.

The problem is that the level of deployment is increasing significantly, and there is a very wide range of quality out there. At one point there was greater lienence for LFP, but there seems to be some concerns beyond chemistry now, including quality of internal terminations, BMSs, and if the system is properly configured for safety.

NFPA and NEC need to do a better job of addressing this type of deployment; there should be a bit more wiggle room than there is. But, for a residential setup they will never approve a DIY, built-up from cells system. (Just the fact that people put it in a metal box with hardyboard insulation should be a red flag.)

As for the UL aspect of it... while I generally agree UL is far too painful of a process for low-volume and bespoke solutions it has traditionally been the cop-out solution for NFPA when things aren't just cookie-cutter.

 

[copec]

What's funny is I got caught with my illegal install because my city is also the power utility. So they checked my meter to see why my bill was so low and noticed the solar panels and then reported me to the building department. :-/

To be fair, I didn't know it was illegal until years after already having most of it up. Nor did I know that you couldn't do anything more than change a light bulb to your electrical without a permit.

 

[AntronX]

because my city is also the power utility

What city is that and what was your punishment?

 

[copec]

What city is that and what was your punishment?

Santa Clara, Utah.

They have been nice about it, simply asked me to deactivate and discontinue use and put in for a permit, but have become more impatient and short with my questions as I had no idea what exactly they wanted but couldn’t explain anything or give me any examples. They have only dealt with pure grid-tie solar and also have an arbitrary limit of 8kw of panels decided by somebody in the city.

http://solarabcs.org/about/publications/reports/expedited-permit/index.html

Has been a good resource, I also found some example packets while googling, so I’m trying to generate my own now.

There’s only like two houses with PV in the whole city. Our power is cheap, the only reason I even started with solar was the idea of a whole house UPS with a built in power source in the sky that could supplement the bill a little. Our power flashes and goes out all the time with the transmission lines across the desert.

 

[Hedges]

Can you take some stuff down and make a compliant grid-tie system for them to inspect and approve?