New NHX 12 killowatt

[Tayne]

I have two batteries I built and connected them to overkill buss bars then connected two leads from pos and two leads from neg to the 4 battery terminals in the inverter. Seams to work good.

 

[JohnGyver]

It's official!

I joined the NHX-12K club! My first unit should be here next week. Ian at Watts247 has been very helpful to say the least along with Adam Delay and Gavin Stone. All of those guys are simply awesome! I have a lot of work to do... but I hope to get it installed over the last part of 2024.

@Tayne - I agree on adding surge devices on the inverter and panels to help with EMP hardening. I plan on adding a Midnite Solar DC surge protector on each string of solar plus an AC version at the main and critical loads panel. I hope this is enough for most normal type issues as well as something of the likes of solar flares and EMP blasts. And I hope that we never have to deal with such an event.

I am excited to get the baseline system up and running with 4.8kw solar input with a second 4.8kw array in the works, one NHX-12k and one EG4 wall battery.... and from there add a 3rd 4.8kw array, 2 more batteries and then evaluate what my system can do and where I may need to beef up. At some point the 2nd inverter will come into play with additional solar panels to support it and possibly more batteries.

For those with NHX inverters, how much solar are you pumping into them? I am guessing that 14,400 may be enough per 12k inverter... but that is only using 3 of the 4 mppt's. Should I plan on a 4th array for maximum solar input? (Houston Texas area)

Thanks for any input guys!

John

 

[Tayne]

I hope to add some DC solar at some point, but I will need to cut the top of some trees that block that part of the roof. In the more near future I am going to move a few/most of my micro inverters to the AC coupled part of the inverter.
So for now I am charging from grid during production times and back feeding after hours.

I have found in this configuration. I am not hitting the 200 amp charge limit of my BMS. So in peak production I am still exporting to the grid. Might be a limitation AC charging. The max charge rate is likely in DC to DC. Although it does seam to hit max discharge.
Having multiple units will also improve your rates.

For EMP surge in an AC coupled system. How would you recommend installing? Would it be at the main meter box? Then everything down stream is good? Being the panels are DC and the micro inverters are AC would they also protected?

 

[Kornbread]

It's official!

I joined the NHX-12K club! My first unit should be here next week. Ian at Watts247 has been very helpful to say the least along with Adam Delay and Gavin Stone. All of those guys are simply awesome! I have a lot of work to do... but I hope to get it installed over the last part of 2024.

@Tayne - I agree on adding surge devices on the inverter and panels to help with EMP hardening. I plan on adding a Midnite Solar DC surge protector on each string of solar plus an AC version at the main and critical loads panel. I hope this is enough for most normal type issues as well as something of the likes of solar flares and EMP blasts. And I hope that we never have to deal with such an event.

I am excited to get the baseline system up and running with 4.8kw solar input with a second 4.8kw array in the works, one NHX-12k and one EG4 wall battery.... and from there add a 3rd 4.8kw array, 2 more batteries and then evaluate what my system can do and where I may need to beef up. At some point the 2nd inverter will come into play with additional solar panels to support it and possibly more batteries.

For those with NHX inverters, how much solar are you pumping into them? I am guessing that 14,400 may be enough per 12k inverter... but that is only using 3 of the 4 mppt's. Should I plan on a 4th array for maximum solar input? (Houston Texas area)

Thanks for any input guys!

John

One a sunny day, it's not going to take a lot of panels to max out the charge rate of 1battery, nor run it down during the night.

Susceptible enough connected to SolarAssistant, but glad the NHX were never connected to the net with their dongle. https://diysolarforum.com/threads/c...nded-deye-unit-in-the-usa-this-morning.94349/ Something to think about.

 

[JohnGyver]

I hope to add some DC solar at some point, but I will need to cut the top of some trees that block that part of the roof. In the more near future I am going to move a few/most of my micro inverters to the AC coupled part of the inverter.
So for now I am charging from grid during production times and back feeding after hours.

I have found in this configuration. I am not hitting the 200 amp charge limit of my BMS. So in peak production I am still exporting to the grid. Might be a limitation AC charging. The max charge rate is likely in DC to DC. Although it does seam to hit max discharge.
Having multiple units will also improve your rates.

For EMP surge in an AC coupled system. How would you recommend installing? Would it be at the main meter box? Then everything down stream is good? Being the panels are DC and the micro inverters are AC would they also protected?

For DC charging I think I will run 3 of the 4 mppt's with 4800 watts (12 panels) into each one. If I need more to peak out the inverter I will add the 4th string. I think you are right, direct couple DC solar input is what will charge you batteries at full tilt.

I think the best approach for the surge protectors is to have one DC surge protector per string at the inverter to arrest any inbound surges coming from the panels and or wiring. Add one AC surge at the main panel and add one at the critical loads panel if you have one. That way the solar equipment is covered from every direction. All wiring inside and outside your house, including power lines and underground lines will act as an antenna and pickup lightning and other type surges and send them up and down the wiring, until it hits a ground (surge protector ground in this case). I wonder if there is any benefit to adding more than 1 surge to the main panel? I would guess that you would get double the protection if you added 2 surges devices?

My concern is very nearby lightning strikes and how to prevent damage to all the important stuff in our lives.... including/especially the "Power Plant"... AKA, Solar inverter and batteries.

 

[JohnGyver]

One a sunny day, it's not going to take a lot of panels to max out the charge rate of 1battery, nor run it down during the night.

Susceptible enough connected to SolarAssistant, but glad the NHX were never connected to the net with their dongle. https://diysolarforum.com/threads/c...nded-deye-unit-in-the-usa-this-morning.94349/ Something to think about.

Korn,

Are you saying that I should avoid using the included Solarman app and only use Solar Assistant? I have heard about the Deye incident... but that incident shouldn't affect us directly... you are saying in Theory it could happen to us down the road?

About the solar/battery charge rate comment.... what's your thoughts on solar input? I have one 4.8kw array ready to go. I have a second set of 4.8kw of panels ready to go when I build a solar pergola / tall ground mount to hold them. That is close to 10kw of power feeding the NHX-12k and one battery. What are your 10k's getting fed?

Craig @ CMG Solar, where I get my 400/500 watts Hyperion Bifacials from made a comment "that's a lot of power you are throwing up".... which so far is around 10kw and 24 solar panels to the first NHX-12k. That comment has me thinking "am I over paneling too much"?

My design and setup thought is that the unit wouldn't be made with 4 mppt's and 18kw of solar input for some random reason. I would think it's intended the get the maximum amount of panels to do its job. Is this being too aggressive on the solar input side?

I plan to add a second NHX-12k to fully cover all of my loads. Maxing out all MPPTs with four 4.8kw arrays per inverter is 96 Hyperion 400/500 watt panels. That just sounds crazy! (And that thought makes my wallet hurt on the inside!)

Yep, 96 panels just sound excessive, like by a lot.

What is you thoughts on this?

Any and all opinions and experience welcomed!

 

[mciholas]

Are you saying that I should avoid using the included Solarman app and only use Solar Assistant?

I had a 10K NHX on Solarman for about 6 months. Pretty bad software. It had no ability to change things remotely until near the end, then it appeared to give a huge list of things you could change, but it was unstable if you used it. Solarman's apparent ability to change settings is mostly broken.

I setup Solar Assistant some weeks ago. WAY better, much nice reporting, etc. I have yet to get my batteries on that, but will do so soon. SA has the ability to change a FEW things, and those seem to work, but really you need to change things from the front panel for most things.

My advice is SA, and accept that setup changes are front panel operations.

Caveat: I haven't been running SA long, but I like the change so far.

Mike C.

 

[Kornbread]

Korn,

Are you saying that I should avoid using the included Solarman app and only use Solar Assistant? I have heard about the Deye incident... but that incident shouldn't affect us directly... you are saying in Theory it could happen to us down the road?

About the solar/battery charge rate comment.... what's your thoughts on solar input? I have one 4.8kw array ready to go. I have a second set of 4.8kw of panels ready to go when I build a solar pergola / tall ground mount to hold them. That is close to 10kw of power feeding the NHX-12k and one battery. What are your 10k's getting fed?

Craig @ CMG Solar, where I get my 400/500 watts Hyperion Bifacials from made a comment "that's a lot of power you are throwing up".... which so far is around 10kw and 24 solar panels to the first NHX-12k. That comment has me thinking "am I over paneling too much"?

My design and setup thought is that the unit wouldn't be made with 4 mppt's and 18kw of solar input for some random reason. I would think it's intended the get the maximum amount of panels to do its job. Is this being too aggressive on the solar input side?

I plan to add a second NHX-12k to fully cover all of my loads. Maxing out all MPPTs with four 4.8kw arrays per inverter is 96 Hyperion 400/500 watt panels. That just sounds crazy! (And that though makes my wallet hurt on the inside!)

Yep, 96 panels just sound excessive, like by a lot.

What is you thoughts on this?

Any and all opinions and experience welcomed!

IMO, the included app is a waste of time and a larger security risk than SolarAssistant. What happened to Deye customers could also easily happen to us if things were to go sideways with a known hostile country from which we import everything electronic.

One battery can only take so much charge/discharge and it's not going to last very long after the sun sets. I think we talked about this before, but batteries are at the lowest price I've ever seen. Don't know how long they will stay this way, but it sure seems like a good time to stock up on them while the price is still low. It's also nice to have redundancy ... ships happen.

Overpaneling is ok ... to a point.

Way past my bedtime and not thinking too good. I'll try and chime in later.

 

[JohnGyver]

I had a 10K NHX on Solarman for about 6 months. Pretty bad software. It had no ability to change things remotely until near the end, then it appeared to give a huge list of things you could change, but it was unstable if you used it. Solarman's apparent ability to change settings is mostly broken.

I setup Solar Assistant some weeks ago. WAY better, much nice reporting, etc. I have yet to get my batteries on that, but will do so soon. SA has the ability to change a FEW things, and those seem to work, but really you need to change things from the front panel for most things.

My advice is SA, and accept that setup changes are front panel operations.

Caveat: I haven't been running SA long, but I like the change so far.

Mike C.

I don't mind making the changes outside. My goal is to get everything setup and let it roll. I don't want to have to be constantly tinkering with it past the setup phase, except to add more batteries and panels as needed. My outside mini/micro shed/closet will be AC'd in the warmer months with a 5000 BTU window unit. So if I have to go out there to program there is just enough room to stand inside, close the door and program or adjust what I need to. I will also use a heat lamp on a thermostat the few days a year that we get around freezing in winter here in the Houston area.

I do want to be able to see it working via and app just to validate everything looks good. Does Solar Assistant send you notifications if there is an issue like a battery stops communicating or a solar string stops working? That is all I would need really.... just to know when something needs to get addressed.

I definitely never want to experience a remote shutdown of my inverters from the manufacturer, regional distributor, etc. So if going with solar assistant is the key in avoiding that, then I am all about it!

 

[JohnGyver]

IMO, the included app is a waste of time and a larger security risk than SolarAssistant. What happened to Deye customers could also easily happen to us if things were to go sideways with a known hostile country from which we import everything electronic.

One battery can only take so much charge/discharge and it's not going to last very long after the sun sets. I think we talked about this before, but batteries are at the lowest price I've ever seen. Don't know how long they will stay this way, but it sure seems like a good time to stock up on them while the price is still low. It's also nice to have redundancy ... ships happen.

Overpaneling is ok ... to a point.

Way past my bedtime and not thinking too good. I'll try and chime in later.

Yep, I am on a mission to get 3 of the EG4 wall batteries up and running as soon as possible, then see how that works for us. I will then reassess the system and adjust accordingly from there. At $3400 each, I have to pace myself! Every little layer of this project costs big chunks.... wire, trencher rental for multiple 120 foot runs, hardware, conduit, solar tools, electrical wiring, critical loads panel, relocating other systems like septic controllers, etc, etc, etc.... plus the cost of the actual solar equipment!

This project started off as a small 5kw backup generator project.... just for power outage needs..... and has blown up into a full power plant in development as I learned about the gear and what it can do. My little peanut budget has blown way past what I was prepared to spend.

Hopefully LFP battery pricing stays the same or even drops a bit as we go.... hopefully.

 

[Tayne]

I really like solar assistant. I can tell my battery to charge and discharge when at work miles away. Also works through home assistant thru MQTT. And allows automations.

A few of the settings do require using the screen/inverter. I found the reason why my battery wasn’t charging at 200 amps. I had it set on the inverter to 170 amps. So I should be able to charge more. Tonight I was discharging around 230 amps with my 2- new batteries.
For me I have a 10k solar array. I have 6.6kw battery with Enphase (which is tiny and cost $4.5K!). And 2 new batteries I just made each 16kw each (cost about $2k to build each). With 4 batteries. During peak production today I still sent power back to the grid and it’s winter/short days. But hopefully now I have it set to 200 amp charge. I can store a bit more.
I hate sending power back to the grid. In my area they give to 50% value (wholesale) then turn around and sell the same power back to you at 100% retail. Then they hit you with a surcharge per Kw because theythey

 

[Kornbread]

Think we pm'd about a few things and one of the things was heat, especially how it affects LiFePo4 cells. Will recently posted this thread and it does indicate temperatures above, IIRC, 80'ish*f considerably shorten cell life, especially when combined with high c rates. With a lot of panels and not a lot of battery, your c rates could be more aggressive than most. High charge rate combined with higher temps appears to shorten cell life. I think you made a very wise decesion to add an air conditioner to the purposed small solar room.

As far as nearby lightening strikes. With 3different pole mounts, panels on the deck roof, and several large trees, I'm borked. Each pole mount acts as a ground rod and the ~200' distance between everything is going to create a lot of step differential. Been thinking about MIdNitte's spd's. I should probably do that.

Overpaneling ... 4.8k on each mppt is slightly over 19k and that's quite a bit less than 10% overpaneled. I'd be more worried about shoving all that amperage into a small battery bank. If my math's are correct, 18kw would be close to 400amps at 48volts. For 3 100ah server rack batteries, that is going to be a high charge rate. Oops ... it looks like both the eg4 LL and LiFePower4 have a 100amp max continious charge/discharge, but IIRC, you are going with the 14.3kw indoor battery which is 200amp max charge/discharge. If you are going closed loop, 1will definately throtle the inverter, 2might if things aren't just right, but 3may be the goldilocks zone.

SolarMan app ... I have no need for such a thing. SolarAssistant is not going to keep all the bad actors out of the inverter/phone, but IMO, it's safer than giving China access to my power production/phone and it gives me access to a lot of information at home and on-the-go plus additional settings for the inverter. If you are computer handy, pretty sure it can easily integrate with HomeAssistant, which can send alerts.

Hobbies can be like a tough piece of jerky. The more you chew on it, the bigger it gets. At least it not drugs.

 

[Kornbread]

A few screenshots of SolarAssistant. The first shows the past couple of days of each mppt. As you can see, only 6mppt inputs are in use and the strings are pretty small. The huge valleys in production are the tree shadows moving across the panels. Really hurts production this time of year.
xxx
Although it does not show individual cell levels, it give me everything I need to know about the batteries without going out to the shed.

 

[JohnGyver]

I think solar assistant would be the way to go. I don't think I would be much into the data tracking aspect... more of a remote visual inspection to ensure that everything is up and running as it should.

Question about if an inverter goes down.... if it were to go down would the pass through function automatically kick in and keep the house powered up through grid power? My biggest fear is something going wrong with the inverter and being left without power. I summe that is the way it works, but I want to make sure I understand that correctly.

I think those Midnite Solar SPD's are worth the investment. Buy them off ebay and save a few bucks. I got a 300A DC version for my 1st array for $75. My house has a surge on it already (Eaton) but plan on adding on a Midnite Solar on both main and critical loads panels. Cheap protection for expensive gear, I think.

Battery - I am rethinking the EG4 wall battery and really considering the larger Ruixu wall battery. Will Prowse is reviewing it now from what I have read. He loves their rack batteries and even stated that they are his favorite rack style batteries. The EG4 is 280 AH and for a lower price the Ruixu is 314 AH (UL listed now and IP65 outdoor rated). Information is limited but from the people who have purchased one I have not heard of any complaints, all reviews appear to be good ones. It looks like it could even be a sibling of the EG4... even though I have no proof of that. Any thoughts on that? One of these 320 pounders is equivalent to 3 rack batteries. Any thoughts on the Ruixu Lithi2-16 wall battery?

 

[1201]

A few screenshots of SolarAssistant. The first shows the past couple of days of each mppt. As you can see, only 6mppt inputs are in use and the strings are pretty small. The huge valleys in production are the tree shadows moving across the panels. Really hurts production this time of year.
View attachment 257469xxx
Although it does not show individual cell levels, it give me everything I need to know about the batteries without going out to the shed.

View attachment 257470

How do you have your bms' connected to solar assistant?

 

[Kornbread]

How do you have your bms' connected to solar assistant?

Sorry, I'll have to go out and look cause' I forget everything.

 

[Tayne]

I have my batteries connected to the inverter with can bus. Then both the NHX and both batteries connected to my orange pi rj45/485 to usb. 1 to the pi the other to a usb powered hub. Then select them in the software.
You can also use the values from the inverter, but I like the more detailed info.

 

[Tayne]

 

[Kornbread]

How do you have your bms' connected to solar assistant?

To get this

Talking to SolarAssistant. You need this


and this. Oddly enough, this was cheaper on eBay than Aliexpress.

Then you need some usb cables to plug all that into something like this. Get one with more ports if you have more battery banks.

Then, if the cable from the powered usb expansion hub isn't log enough, you have to buy one more usb cable to reach the usb port on the Pi. It's on SolarAssistant's website here SolarAssistank plus jk bms but don't use the cheap converter SolarAssistant shows in that tutorial, get the ftdi chipped converter. Less dropped queries.

 

[1201]

To get this
View attachment 257708
Talking to SolarAssistant. You need this

View attachment 257707
and this. Oddly enough, this was cheaper on eBay than Aliexpress.
View attachment 257709
Then you need some usb cables to plug all that into something like this. Get one with more ports if you have more battery banks.
View attachment 257711
Then, if the cable from the powered usb expansion hub isn't log enough, you have to buy one more usb cable to reach the usb port on the Pi. It's on SolarAssistant's website here SolarAssistank plus jk bms but don't use the cheap converter SolarAssistant shows in that tutorial, get the ftdi chipped converter. Less dropped queries.

Thanks so much!

 

[jtran69]

wondering when CA Energy Commission will add the NHX 12K (N3H-X Series) to its approved listing or is it not qualified?

 

[JohnGyver]

My NHX-12k arrived pretty quickly. Ian's team wasted no time at Watts247 getting the order out!

This unit is a BEAST! It's big. Like too big for one 53 year old, 5'4" dude to try to tackle. But when you have more aspiration than patience (and/or brains), you find a way to get-er-dun! At 147 pounds, 3 feet tall, nearly 2 feet wide and I think 10" deep... find a friend to mount. And by friend, I mean the 6'4" 225 pound former linebacker type. It's just a lot to try to man-handle by yourself.

My solar equipment shed (actually an outdoor closet) is still under final construction. I should have it done this week. The doors are under construction now, so hopefully they will be on tomorrow.

Here are some pics of the beast hanging in the new shed closet.

Shed will have a 5000 BTU AC unit, LED lighting inside, a heat lamp w/ thermostat for the rare super cold nights here in Houston. Walls are painted white to help reflect light, I suspect if I need to be in that shed at night its because there is an issue, so good lighting attributes just in case.


This is a tight space but heavy shaded by a 150 year old oak tree much of the afternoon (west facing wall), shaded most of the day by the house eave. Ultimately it will house 2 inverters (barely) and 2 to 4 Ruixu Lithi2-16 wall batteries with 314 AH each. The 1st one is on the way, should be here in about a week. Purchased from Shop Solar with the Turkey2024 Black Friday coupon for $3125 with free shipping and no tax. I was leaning on the EG4 but it cost hundreds more with fewer AH's (280 AH).


Edit: With doors built and installed.


There is still so much to do from here. I still have to transfer many of the circuits from my main panel to the critical loads panel that I recently added. I also need to dig a 120 foot trench from my 4.8kw array to feed it a little juice. I hope to be able to have her up and running by Christmas as my starter setup until I can add more solar panels and batteries.

I just wanted to post this so if anyone looking to buy one of these can see one actually mounted.... and understand that it is a big awkward chore to get it mounted. I am asking myself why I didn't just go with two of the NHX-10k units. Short answer, the 10k unit didn't match up well with my existing 4.8kw array. But my stupid answer is.... GO BIG or GO HOME! I do live in Texas after all! In all seriousness, I would seriously consider the NHX-10k as an option if you are looking to buy an NHX inverter. I dread the idea of trying to take this down for any related service needs down the road.

I will post more as I progress with the installation.

John

 

[JohnGyver]

View attachment 257668

Are you running the Ruixu Lithi-2 batteries? I see that your two batteries are 314 AH, which is the same rating as the Ruixu Lithi-2.

If so, how do you like them? A video recently dropped from Will Prowse on one that he has been testing for a while. It looks like a nice unit.

I have one on order and waiting to get it in so I can start wiring stuff up. I am looking to purchase another soon.

Thanks Tayne!

 

[Tayne]

Are you running the Ruixu Lithi-2 batteries? I see that your two batteries are 314 AH, which is the same rating as the Ruixu Lithi-2.

If so, how do you like them? A video recently dropped from Will Prowse on one that he has been testing for a while. It looks like a nice unit.

I have one on order and waiting to get it in so I can start wiring stuff up. I am looking to purchase another soon.

Thanks Tayne!

My battery cells are from 2 different manufacturers. 1-16s is an Eve MB31’s and the other 16’s are Hithium 314’s. They both seam to work fine although the Eve’s are better cells, but the both have the same specs. My dyi vertical cases are from EEL.
It’s a good case.

 

[Tayne]

Those look like very nice batteries and at decent price. My all in price for each DYI was about $2K each. It was my first time building battery packs.