Why are the Eve better cells?
New NHX 12 killowatt
- Thread starter menchelke
- Start date
Better in that it’s like popular one and it’s the one to beat. I haven’t don’t any testing to confirm which is truly better. Although I think some would consider the other might be “B” grade. But the both seem to work for me.
I updated the firmware (so it will do AC coupling) and my system stopped discharging the battery. I spoke with an engineer from China and recommended instead of back feeding the panel making a home load panel. Which I was planning on anyways.
This weekend I am setting up a new panel. Moving some of my more important circuits, including my Tesla. Prefer to charge it from excess solar storage.
I picked the Leviton panel, with smart breakers and all. I really looked hard at the Spam but just too much money. Although the smart breakers from Leviton are pricey. I was able to look online and get some ok prices.
Once I get everything work right. Then I will move some Enphase/Solar to the NHX. I think this will be a much better option then trying to program the two systems in Home assistant with automations to charge and discharge as needed since they won’t talk with each other.
Has anyone else had any issues figuring out how to wire the NHX since it has two different breakers/wires for each connection? The Engineer from china said to take the 1 L1/L2 connection and connect to the grid and the other to the loads. The diagrams/manual wasn't very clear on that. But it could just be my lack of knowledge on electrical.
This weekend I am setting up a new panel. Moving some of my more important circuits, including my Tesla. Prefer to charge it from excess solar storage.
I picked the Leviton panel, with smart breakers and all. I really looked hard at the Spam but just too much money. Although the smart breakers from Leviton are pricey. I was able to look online and get some ok prices.
Once I get everything work right. Then I will move some Enphase/Solar to the NHX. I think this will be a much better option then trying to program the two systems in Home assistant with automations to charge and discharge as needed since they won’t talk with each other.
Has anyone else had any issues figuring out how to wire the NHX since it has two different breakers/wires for each connection? The Engineer from china said to take the 1 L1/L2 connection and connect to the grid and the other to the loads. The diagrams/manual wasn't very clear on that. But it could just be my lack of knowledge on electrical.
That's how it works I guess. Why do you have an NHX? By all posts, EG4 is more popular. Wouldn't that be the right choice?
This isn't a popularity contest. Data matters. Thus far, it supports a reasonable conclusion that Hithium is on par with EVE cells. Hopefully we'll continue to get more data to draw further, informed conclusions.
I'm not going to say Hithium is better than eve, or whatever else is out there, just that for our needs and the cost, I'd say it works as good as most anything else out there.
Some would say eve is tier 2 compared to byd and catl.
Fair enough. I like the price point.
I think for a solar setup with low C rates they would do fairly well, based on your tests and a couple of others I've seen.
I should get a set and a tester. I'm already broke. Might as well be charged up.
That is awesome! And they are a bunch less $.
lol I like how you think. I just saw they were cheaper and had similar specs.
I'm looking forward to seeing more in the NHX.
@JohnGyver
@mciholas
@menchelke
can you verify that there is passthru on the NHX10k/NHX12k and how much please ? I am studying.
thank you
@mciholas
@menchelke
can you verify that there is passthru on the NHX10k/NHX12k and how much please ? I am studying.
thank you
JohnGyver
Solar Enthusiast
Hungfish,
Go to Watts247 and download both manuals. All the specs are there for you to gather your information. I did that with every inverter that I was considering... after studying a bunch of options I narrowed my choices down to the NHX-10K, NHX-12K and the new Growatt 10K. I chose the NHX-12k because it is very close to the EG4 18Kpv at 2k less dollars.
Have a Merry Christmas! - John
JohnGyver
Solar Enthusiast
Update pics of my project in motion. It's moving slower than I'd like due to being hampered from pneumonia for the last 3 weeks.
Shed structure is more or less complete. I am in the wiring phase at this point. I will add a small window AC unit before summer comes around in late spring 2025.
NHX-12K with 6x6x24 wire trough and a Ruixu Lithi2 314AH outdoor wall battery. The plan is to ultimately squeeze two inverters and 4 batteries in here! LOL, it will be tight... but I think I can do it. The battery is sitting on a 2x12 board to isolate it from ground. My dad would tell me when I was a kid to never put a car battery on the concrete because it will die... LOL, not sure if that is an old wise-tale or what, but I am not taking any chances with a $3100 battery!
I bought 2 of the wire troughs with a connector piece that will make it 48" long when coupled. That way I am ready for inverter number 2 when the time comes.
Inverter and wire trough opened up
I hope to be wiring it up soon. Between the holidays, rain and pneumonia I am on hold until the new year. I am impatient so can not wait until I can really dig into this and get it moving!
I will post more as I progress.
John
Shed structure is more or less complete. I am in the wiring phase at this point. I will add a small window AC unit before summer comes around in late spring 2025.
NHX-12K with 6x6x24 wire trough and a Ruixu Lithi2 314AH outdoor wall battery. The plan is to ultimately squeeze two inverters and 4 batteries in here! LOL, it will be tight... but I think I can do it. The battery is sitting on a 2x12 board to isolate it from ground. My dad would tell me when I was a kid to never put a car battery on the concrete because it will die... LOL, not sure if that is an old wise-tale or what, but I am not taking any chances with a $3100 battery!
I bought 2 of the wire troughs with a connector piece that will make it 48" long when coupled. That way I am ready for inverter number 2 when the time comes.Inverter and wire trough opened up
I hope to be wiring it up soon. Between the holidays, rain and pneumonia I am on hold until the new year. I am impatient so can not wait until I can really dig into this and get it moving!
I will post more as I progress.
John
JohnGyver
Solar Enthusiast
*** Installation Update ***
For those who are considering the NHX-12k... here are some pics and details;
I have an email into Ian as well as Korn about this "convertible" panel concept that I did. By using a generator interlock kit I can toggle the panel to be either a critical loads panel for the inverter or a normal sub panel. My question is whether the neutral and ground from the main panel feeding in as a sub panel will cause an issue when toggled over to a critical loads panel which will be fed by the inverter's neutral and ground. I am thinking that maybe the ground and/or neutral may create some sort of unwanted loop that may cause an issue with the inverter... and I don't want that. Worst case scenario is I will manually unwire the neutral and ground and set it aside in the panel for future reconnection when I need to convert it back to a sub panel. This concept is for future maintenance (software updates) or equipment issues, allowing me to get my house on the grid (off inverter) if an issue arises with something in the solar system. If anyone has any thoughts about this concept please chime in! I am only a seasoned novice after all! 
I am very energy efficient on all my 120v circuits. My entire house will pull maybe 140A at peak with all loads, including EV charging, AC, pool pump and 3 sub panels off a 200A service. Most of the heavy loads are still on the main panel. The critical loads panels just has the lighter stuff like outlets, fans and lights. My heaviest load is my well pump which only draws about 22A when in use, water is critical! It may look like the critical loads panel has a lot but actual daily usage is very low, per my Emporia energy monitor that I used on the main panel leading up to this.
With the cold weather starting up Sunday down here in the Houston area I want to get it fired up so we stay up and running (and warm) in case the grid goes down. Oddly enough, we had two short 5 hour and 8 hour power outages in the last month... and that got old pretty quick. I want to avoid stuff like that going forward so getting this system going this weekend is the plan!
I hope it's as easy as all the YouTube videos about the NHX-10k are!
John
For those who are considering the NHX-12k... here are some pics and details;
I have an email into Ian as well as Korn about this "convertible" panel concept that I did. By using a generator interlock kit I can toggle the panel to be either a critical loads panel for the inverter or a normal sub panel. My question is whether the neutral and ground from the main panel feeding in as a sub panel will cause an issue when toggled over to a critical loads panel which will be fed by the inverter's neutral and ground. I am thinking that maybe the ground and/or neutral may create some sort of unwanted loop that may cause an issue with the inverter... and I don't want that. Worst case scenario is I will manually unwire the neutral and ground and set it aside in the panel for future reconnection when I need to convert it back to a sub panel. This concept is for future maintenance (software updates) or equipment issues, allowing me to get my house on the grid (off inverter) if an issue arises with something in the solar system. If anyone has any thoughts about this concept please chime in!
I am only a seasoned novice after all! I am very energy efficient on all my 120v circuits. My entire house will pull maybe 140A at peak with all loads, including EV charging, AC, pool pump and 3 sub panels off a 200A service. Most of the heavy loads are still on the main panel. The critical loads panels just has the lighter stuff like outlets, fans and lights. My heaviest load is my well pump which only draws about 22A when in use, water is critical! It may look like the critical loads panel has a lot but actual daily usage is very low, per my Emporia energy monitor that I used on the main panel leading up to this.
With the cold weather starting up Sunday down here in the Houston area I want to get it fired up so we stay up and running (and warm) in case the grid goes down. Oddly enough, we had two short 5 hour and 8 hour power outages in the last month... and that got old pretty quick. I want to avoid stuff like that going forward so getting this system going this weekend is the plan!
I hope it's as easy as all the YouTube videos about the NHX-10k are!
John
Adam De Lay
Solar Wizard
Install looks like it’s coming along well!*** Installation Update ***
For those who are considering the NHX-12k... here are some pics and details;
View attachment 267623
View attachment 267624
View attachment 267625
I have an email into Ian as well as Korn about this "convertible" panel concept that I did. By using a generator interlock kit I can toggle the panel to be either a critical loads panel for the inverter or a normal sub panel. My question is whether the neutral and ground from the main panel feeding in as a sub panel will cause an issue when toggled over to a critical loads panel which will be fed by the inverter's neutral and ground. I am thinking that maybe the ground and/or neutral may create some sort of unwanted loop that may cause an issue with the inverter... and I don't want that. Worst case scenario is I will manually unwire the neutral and ground and set it aside in the panel for future reconnection when I need to convert it back to a sub panel. This concept is for future maintenance (software updates) or equipment issues, allowing me to get my house on the grid (off inverter) if an issue arises with something in the solar system. If anyone has any thoughts about this concept please chime in!
I am very energy efficient on all my 120v circuits. My entire house will pull maybe 140A at peak with all loads, including EV charging, AC, pool pump and 3 sub panels off a 200A service. Most of the heavy loads are still on the main panel. The critical loads panels just has the lighter stuff like outlets, fans and lights. My heaviest load is my well pump which only draws about 22A when in use, water is critical! It may look like the critical loads panel has a lot but actual daily usage is very low, per my Emporia energy monitor that I used on the main panel leading up to this.
View attachment 267627
With the cold weather starting up Sunday down here in the Houston area I want to get it fired up so we stay up and running (and warm) in case the grid goes down. Oddly enough, we had two short 5 hour and 8 hour power outages in the last month... and that got old pretty quick. I want to avoid stuff like that going forward so getting this system going this weekend is the plan!
I hope it's as easy as all the YouTube videos about the NHX-10k are!
John
I’m no electrician, so I don’t know the proper way to do this, but I would try to avoid having the grounds and neutrals land in the “combiner panel” from both your main panel and the inverter (since the inverter will also have a ground and neutral from the main panel).
Hopefully someone with actual knowledge of the situation can comment. Maybe @timselectric can help?
JohnGyver
Solar Enthusiast
Thanks for the feedback Adam! I see that you are getting some of that Lake Effect snow up in your area! Stay warm up there!
I think I will manually disconnect the sub panel neutral and ground and isolate them when not in use... and only reconnect them when I need to convert the panel back to a sub panel to put the house back on "grid only". Which should be never!.... assuming that once I install the solar inverter it should just work forever and ever! LOL But just in case that there is some sort of inverter failure or maintenance then I can easily reconnect the sub panel wiring after disconnecting the inverter to get my house running on grid power as quickly as possible.
That will be my plan until someone knowledgeable confirms that there is not an issue with both inverter wiring and sub panel wiring (neutrals and grounds) being coupled together.
I am waiting for Amazon to deliver some parts to finish up the other lingering details... then I will be ready to fire her up! So exciting!
Thanks again Adam!
JohnGyver
Solar Enthusiast
*** Install Update, It's up & running! ***
I have the NHX-12k up and running! My grid tie and critical loads panels are connected.... most of my house is now wired to solar! I still need 2 more batteries and 24 more panels added to get to where I think I will need to be. That will put me in the 14.4kw solar input range on 3 of the 4 MPPT's. I can expand by an additional 4.8kw on the 4th MPPT if needed.
Concerning the "convertible critical loads / sub panel".... I disconnected the sub panel neutral and ground and isolated them inside the critical loads panel for future use, if ever needed (see pic). It will be a manual process, but it's there ready for the conversion if ever needed for solar system maintenance, warranty issues, software updates, etc.
The Ruixu battery and inverter communicated out of the gate after setting the battery to "Megarevo" as the chosen manufacturer that it will pair up with. It was very simple.
I am putting the NHX-12k through its paces now.... it's very cool to see early morning solar coming in and being processed to the house and battery!
I still have a ton of finish work to do, including digging 250 feet of trenches for the solar wiring, a bit of rewire in the main panel and mounting the DC circuit breaker box with Midnite Solar surge protectors, conduit and all the other fun details!
I do plan to get very familiar with my NHX-12k. I hope to be a resource in the future for anyone considering this unit. I will post pics of the finished shed and inverter as I get stage 1 completed and as I add more batteries and solar I will post updated pics as well.
I do want to give a shout out to @Gavin Stone, @Adam De Lay and @Kornbread for helping me understand many things up to this point. The knowledge sharing on this forum is invaluable and I greatly appreciate so many insightful posts, YouTube videos and private emails and messages. I could not have tackled this project without the knowledge and assistance. I do hope to pay it forward as I go from novice to a more seasoned solar guy, at least with the NHX-12k and Ruixu Lithi2 batteries.
Best to all in 2025... Happy New Years!
John
I have the NHX-12k up and running! My grid tie and critical loads panels are connected.... most of my house is now wired to solar! I still need 2 more batteries and 24 more panels added to get to where I think I will need to be. That will put me in the 14.4kw solar input range on 3 of the 4 MPPT's. I can expand by an additional 4.8kw on the 4th MPPT if needed.
Concerning the "convertible critical loads / sub panel".... I disconnected the sub panel neutral and ground and isolated them inside the critical loads panel for future use, if ever needed (see pic). It will be a manual process, but it's there ready for the conversion if ever needed for solar system maintenance, warranty issues, software updates, etc.
The Ruixu battery and inverter communicated out of the gate after setting the battery to "Megarevo" as the chosen manufacturer that it will pair up with. It was very simple.
I am putting the NHX-12k through its paces now.... it's very cool to see early morning solar coming in and being processed to the house and battery!
I still have a ton of finish work to do, including digging 250 feet of trenches for the solar wiring, a bit of rewire in the main panel and mounting the DC circuit breaker box with Midnite Solar surge protectors, conduit and all the other fun details!
I do plan to get very familiar with my NHX-12k. I hope to be a resource in the future for anyone considering this unit. I will post pics of the finished shed and inverter as I get stage 1 completed and as I add more batteries and solar I will post updated pics as well.
I do want to give a shout out to @Gavin Stone, @Adam De Lay and @Kornbread for helping me understand many things up to this point. The knowledge sharing on this forum is invaluable and I greatly appreciate so many insightful posts, YouTube videos and private emails and messages. I could not have tackled this project without the knowledge and assistance. I do hope to pay it forward as I go from novice to a more seasoned solar guy, at least with the NHX-12k and Ruixu Lithi2 batteries.
Best to all in 2025... Happy New Years!
John
Adam De Lay
Solar Wizard
Awesome work! Congrats and enjoy providing your own power!
Why would you isolate the grounds? Seems to me that grounds can be connected without any issue and there's no prohibition on multiple ground paths. I also think it is weird to have any ground wires left floating, it will freak out future persons looking at your setup.
What is the behavior when the battery reaches 100% SoC?
On the 10K version I have in service, it constantly charges a bit, then discharges, then charges, etc, switching in 10s of seconds between them. This is not particularly healthy for the battery to be constantly top charge.
I noticed this first by observing the battery data on the inverter (touch the battery on the main screen) and looking at the battery current readout. I confirmed it by clamp meter.
How I think it should work is to reach 100% SoC, then stop charging or discharging until SoC falls to, say, 98% or something, and then do a top charge again. Top charging would happen only every month or so, maybe less, not 100 times per hour. This lets+ the batter relax away from the top end charge high voltage. The battery degrades fastest at high voltage and high temperature, so avoiding that end of the operating envelope is good.
It would also work to have the inverter stop charge at, say, 99% or something and simply avoid going all the way to 100% SoC. I kind of did that artificially by setting up a Solar Assistant automation that changed battery charge current to 1 amp (lowest it would allow me to set) when it reaches 97% SoC. My batteries have been holding at 98% SoC for a week now, which feels good. My SA automation which also includes a softer charge if we get really low SoC:
Downside to this strategy is that if SA ever goes offline, it could leave the inverter configured to 1 amp charging and thus you wouldn't recharge the battery if it goes down during use. You can always manually reset the charge power, of course, and SA is pretty reliable.
The other annoyance I had was I could not configure the unit to only charge battery on PV and not grid in battery priority mode. There are settings to disable grid charging and select PV charging only, but those don't work except in some more exotic modes. Something to be aware of.
Mike C.
To add to this, I don't believe, based on having done something similar and advice I got here, this is a correct setup. You must carry the neutral and ground from your main panel (where they are bonded). They should attach to their own buss bars in the sub panel, but they should be connected.
The problem with distinct grounds is difference in potential due to resistance, etc. The whole point of a grounding system is a single place for a fault to go while keeping the potential the same across every connected item. This means that I have my wire trough, battery cases, panels, *everything* that's conductive (metal) connected to the same common ground. There's continuity among them all.
One further example -- my critical loads (whole house for me, but critical loads nonetheless) panel has a neutral from the main grid panel, and a ground. With only a couple of exceptions, you'll see I carried over my hot wires with pigtails. I didn't need to carry the neutral or ground though (I could), as it's a common neutral and common ground. The neutral carryover from the main panel is on the left (white conductor), the right side white conductor carries that neutral through to my inverter combiner panel (something you don't need in your case I think). That way, I can land my inverter output neutrals on the combiner buss bar, and they too are part of the same bonded setup.
In the interest of ensuring safety and correctness, I'll tag @timselectric. If I've said anything completely wrong he can correct me (wouldn't be the first time) and I'll edit / redact my post accordingly.
Adam De Lay
Solar Wizard
See this is where I start getting confused. Would be happy to be corrected.
Here's the image John shared above:
The CL panel has both a G and N coming from his MSP (to the right of the image) as well as his inverter (to the left of the image). At the bottom of the image, you can see his main grid lines (including G and N) passing through the CL panel from his MSP to his inverter. When I look at that, I see multiple paths for both the G and N because the CL is still connected to the MSP. I always thought multiple paths were bad and you wanted a single path for both G and N?
Here's the image John shared above:
The CL panel has both a G and N coming from his MSP (to the right of the image) as well as his inverter (to the left of the image). At the bottom of the image, you can see his main grid lines (including G and N) passing through the CL panel from his MSP to his inverter. When I look at that, I see multiple paths for both the G and N because the CL is still connected to the MSP. I always thought multiple paths were bad and you wanted a single path for both G and N?
This is partly why I tagged Tim; I don't want to spread misinformation. However, my understanding is yours. By providing an alternate path, whatever is on that path will have a different potential to ground than the main ground in the MSP which is, I believe, what you want to avoid. The CL panel is still part of the larger electrical system. Its neutral and ground should -- to the best of my understanding -- be tied to the neutral and ground for the system/property. And for clarity -- since it is a sub panel, it should *not* be bonded there. Separate conductors for the neutral and ground buss bars, from the MSP.
I like you though, and more than happy to be corrected. Want us all to learn and be safe.
Multiple paths for ground are okay. You can tie grounds all together in any way you want so long as there is only one neutral to ground bond and there is only one ground rod earthing set (sometimes more than one is used but they form one tie point). Keep ground all tied together.
The confusing part is the neutral. The idealistic directive is that the neutral must ride along with the hots so the instantaneous current sums to zero in all 3 wires. That is, all the current flowing out equals all the current flowing in.
The problem with that is when you have a panel like the critical loads panel that can be powered from two sources, the grid and the inverter. Generally, you switch only the hots as shown in the above image. The "main" breaker is the inverter load switch, the top right branch breaker is the grid bypass connection. There is an interlock between them (not shown, typically mounted to the panel cover) which assures only one is turned on at a time.
The problem now is what to do with the neutral. There is no switch to move it from grid to inverter, so do you tie grid neutral to the panel, or inverter neutral to the panel? In my view, you tie both. This means there are three neutral connections, main to inverter, inverter to critical, critical to main. Now the neutral has a loop in it and some neutral current may flow in the grid to critical line even though the hots are not active. Or, the critical to inverter neutral might carry some current when on grid bypass.
Electrically, this is harmless, but others will argue it is not code. You then ask them to draw out something that would be code compliant to the idealism of neutral with its hots rule, and they can't do it unless they add a neutral switch which creates a host of other problems. So that's where we are.
In the above photo, effectively the neutral line is doubled, two come from the main panel, two come from the inverter, and one of the lines taps into the critical panel. Since the main to critical and critical to inverter lines are run in the same conduit, the sum of *ALL* the currents in those conduits is zero (two sets of hots and neutral in each one). That is as close to the ideal as you can get.
In short, tie the grounds all together any way you want, and tie the neutrals in the critical panel. That works the best.
Mike C.
Adam De Lay
Solar Wizard
Makes sense. You would think there has to be some way to be code compliant.
I was trying to think if a transfer switch would resolve the issue but you would have to have a 3 pole transfer switch to properly isolate the neutrals from each other.
I guess even the way John has it wired right now with 1 set disconnected in the CL panel, you’re still gonna have current flowing on the neutral separate from the hots in certain scenarios. In fact it will be more prevalent depending on what’s supplying power to the CL panel (grid vs inverter). It seems like it would be minimized by having both sets wired in the CL panel.
dougbert
Solar Wizard
With my transfer switch (UPPER LUGS: Grid or LOWER LUGS: inverter) to my CL panel, I also introduced a Neutral loop
Given that my neutral is a common neutral, I only needed one neutral through the Transfer Switch to the inverter
here is my thread post about this
and the better solution
Given that my neutral is a common neutral, I only needed one neutral through the Transfer Switch to the inverter
here is my thread post about this
and the better solution
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