New system layout issues / q's.

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One other option is to not use the LVX6048 because it doesn't have a generator input
Are you sure?
I would think the LVX6048 has a ac input and an automatic transfer switch.
It is a standard feature for the all_in_one market segment.
 

iamrich

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Are you sure?
I would think the LVX6048 has a ac input and an automatic transfer switch.
It is a standard feature for the all_in_one market segment.
I think you can only do AC Grid in OR a generator? So if you want to feed grid into the inverter and then switch over to generator in a power failure, you need a way to disconnect the grid feed (transfer switch).
 

hpeyerl

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I think you can only do AC Grid in OR a generator? So if you want to feed grid into the inverter and then switch over to generator in a power failure, you need a way to disconnect the grid feed (transfer switch).
Thanks. That's what I thought as well, so then I would need another transfer switch.

So would a Schneider or Outback or Victron with generator input be more appropriate in this case? As in, what happens to the generator input if it's running and the grid comes back on the AC Input?
 

timselectric

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I'm going to take a stab at this.
It's a very strange scenario.
I would suggest an off grid inverter (located in the new building, to be by the pole), similar to the Sol-Ark.
Wire the house to the regular output.
And the garage to the critical loads/generator connection. (It can output and input, simultaneously)
This is the best option I can see, for your existing underground wiring.
Put solar panels on the garage, with Microinverters.
In the future, you could even add a ground mounted solar array, near the inverter.
The inverter can control the Microinverters, through the existing wiring. And provide grid to all loads, if desired. It could also be set up to start the generator, wirelessly.
 
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timselectric

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As much as I dislike the Sol-Ark company.
It's probably the best option for you.
Deye, makes a quality inverter.
And Sol-Ark, is the only way to get one in split-phase configuration.
 
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hpeyerl

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I'm going to take a stab at this.
It's a very strange scenario.
I would suggest an off grid inverter (located in the new building, to be by the pole), similar to the Sol-Ark.
Wire the house to the regular output.
And the garage to the critical loads/generator connection. (It can output and input, simultaneously)
This is the best option I can see, for your existing underground wiring.
Put solar panels on the garage, with Microinverters.
In the future, you could even add a ground mounted solar array, near the inverter.
The inverter can control the Microinverters, through the existing wiring. And provide grid to all loads, if desired. It could also be set up to start the generator, wirelessly.
Thanks. This part is the sort of thing I was hoping for:

> And the garage to the critical loads/generator connection. (It can output and input, simultaneously)
> Put solar panels on the garage, with Microinverters.

If I can get output on the generator connection while the generator is not running and not have to worry about externally isolating the grid when the generator is running, then that would seem to be the ticket.

Why don't we like the Sol-Ark company?
 

timselectric

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Thanks. This part is the sort of thing I was hoping for:

> And the garage to the critical loads/generator connection. (It can output and input, simultaneously)
> Put solar panels on the garage, with Microinverters.

If I can get output on the generator connection while the generator is not running and not have to worry about externally isolating the grid when the generator is running, then that would seem to be the ticket.
You still want a transfer switch, at the generator.
Connect the solar, to the normal power connections.
This way, when the grid goes down, and the solar isn't enough. The inverter will operate the transfer switch, and start the generator.

Why don't we like the Sol-Ark company?
They claim to be American made, and all about veterans. But, they are just tripling the price and rebranding a Chinese inverter. (Nothing against the inverter. Deye, is a quality product)
I hold high respect, for the defenders of my country.
When someone exploits this for profit, it turns my stomach.
(End of rant)
 

timselectric

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This setup allows these scenarios.
Grid can power everything.
Grid and solar can share the loads, simultaneously.
Generator can take over, when necessary.
All controlled automatically.
 

hpeyerl

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You still want a transfer switch, at the generator.
Connect the solar, to the normal power connections.
This way, when the grid goes down, and the solar isn't enough. The inverter will operate the transfer switch, and start the generator.

Ok. I'm back to confused.

So as I understood you:
  • House to AC Output
  • Grid to AC Input
  • Garage/Office/Generator/Micro-Inverters to Generator Input
  • Batteries to DC input (Edited to add this)
What do you mean by: "Connect the solar, to the normal power connections" ?

I currently do have a transfer switch on my generator that I can operate with a dry contact so I'm ok with that part. But I would have to build a wireless link between inverter (near the pole) and that dry contact and I couldn't guarantee it would automatically get turned off if the grid came back on.

They claim to be American made, and all about veterans. But, they are just tripling the price and rebranding a Chinese inverter. (Nothing against the inverter. Deye, is a quality product)
I hold high respect, for the defenders of my country.
When someone exploits this for profit, it turns my stomach.
(End of rant)
No, I totally agree. I was looking at the site and saw the "EMP protected to twice Military Standard!" and as someone who works on military hardware with NEDs inside, I find that to be a little disingenuous; clearly targetting preppers.
 

timselectric

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What do you mean by: "Connect the solar, to the normal power connections" ?
I do not believe that the Microinverters will play nice with the generator. And, even if they would. The inverter would not be able to control them, with the generator running. The inverter controls them by shifting the frequency of the source. The inverter can't shift the frequency of the generator.

But I would have to build a wireless link between inverter (near the pole) and that dry contact and I couldn't guarantee it would automatically get turned off if the grid came back on.
The inverter won't connect to the grid, if it still sees the generator running.
 

hpeyerl

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I do not believe that the Microinverters will play nice with the generator. And, even if they would. The inverter would not be able to control them, with the generator running. The inverter controls them by shifting the frequency of the source. The inverter can't shift the frequency of the generator.


The inverter won't connect to the grid, if it still sees the generator running.
Ok, so then we're at:

  • House to AC Output
  • Grid to AC Input
  • Garage/Office/Generator to Generator Input
  • Batteries to DC input (Edited to add this)
Micro-inverters to where? (because they'd pretty much have to be physically mounted on the garage to be of any use).
 

timselectric

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Ok, so then we're at:

  • House to AC Output
  • Grid to AC Input
  • Garage/Office/Generator to Generator Input
  • Batteries to DC input (Edited to add this)
Micro-inverters to where? (because they'd pretty much have to be physically mounted on the garage to be of any use).
Microinverters to normal power connections of transfer switch. I believe that you said that you have unused conduit between garage and office?
 

hpeyerl

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Microinverters to normal power connections of transfer switch. I believe that you said that you have unused conduit between garage and office?
Oh! I see!

The Micro-inverters would power the Garage/Office and act as a Generator input back at the Macro-Inverter.

These are the states I see now:
  1. Sunny. Grid is active. House/Garage/Office are powered by grid. Extra PV is taking some of the load, including charging batteries.
  2. Night/overcast. Grid is active. House/Garage/Office are powered by grid.
  3. Night/overcast. Grid is inactive. House/Garage/Office are powered by batteries.
  4. Sunny, Grid is inactive. House/Garage/Office are powered by PV and/or batteries as applicable.
  5. Night/overcast. Grid is inactive. Batteries are depleted. dry-contact to generator start is activated. dry-contact to generator transfer switch is activated (probably with some sort of gate that monitors power-good from generator).

Presumably then I can get all fancy by running off PV when it's available and batteries are topped up (shaving?)
 

timselectric

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Oh! I see!

The Micro-inverters would power the Garage/Office and act as a Generator input back at the Macro-Inverter.

These are the states I see now:
  1. Sunny. Grid is active. House/Garage/Office are powered by grid. Extra PV is taking some of the load, including charging batteries.
  2. Night/overcast. Grid is active. House/Garage/Office are powered by grid.
  3. Night/overcast. Grid is inactive. House/Garage/Office are powered by batteries.
  4. Sunny, Grid is inactive. House/Garage/Office are powered by PV and/or batteries as applicable.
  5. Night/overcast. Grid is inactive. Batteries are depleted. dry-contact to generator start is activated. dry-contact to generator transfer switch is activated (probably with some sort of gate that monitors power-good from generator)
Yup

Presumably then I can get all fancy by running off PV when it's available and batteries are topped up (shaving?)
With enough solar, yes.
You also have the ability to add DC solar to the inverter. And, parallel more inverters and solar.
Plenty of room for expansion, if you desire.
 

hpeyerl

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Yup


With enough solar, yes.
You also have the ability to add DC solar to the inverter. And, parallel more inverters and solar.
Plenty of room for expansion, if you desire.

ok. I like it.

Now, do I need to have enough inverter capacity to cover peak load? ie: If we're cooking a turkey in the oven, drying clothes while the A/C is running (in the house) and I'm running my compressor and plasma cutter (in the garage)? (assuming all these things are happening when the grid is active. I wouldn't expect batteries/PV to cover all that. When grid is down I would go into power saving mode).
 

timselectric

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With one inverter, you will be limited to 63 amps total. (Which will do more than you may expect)
A second inverter will double that.
Or, you can add a transfer switch to bypass the grid to Garage or house, for high load scenarios. You could even add a transfer switch for each, if you wanted to cover all bases. (These would be located with the inverter.)
 

timselectric

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That's 63 amps, through the inverter. Your Microinverters are powering the garage/ Office additionally.
 

hpeyerl

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With one inverter, you will be limited to 63 amps total. (Which will do more than you may expect)
A second inverter will double that.
Or, you can add a transfer switch to bypass the grid to Garage or house, for high load scenarios. You could even add a transfer switch for each, if you wanted to cover all bases. (These would be located with the inverter.)
That also makes sense. I can handle that.

That's 63 amps, through the inverter. Your Microinverters are powering the garage/ Office additionally.
Yes.

So could I just get a Deye inverter directly from them and avoid the whole Sol-Ark thing?

(Now that you've pointed me in the right direction, I can start reading/researching the finer details).
 

timselectric

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So could I just get a Deye inverter directly from them and avoid the whole Sol-Ark thing?
Unfortunately no.
Deye, has agreed to Sol-ark's terms. And, only sells the split-phase configuration through Sol-ark.
And, you need the split-phase configuration, to have direct control over the Microinverters, in your situation.
 

hpeyerl

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Unfortunately no.
Deye, has agreed to Sol-ark's terms. And, only sells the split-phase configuration through Sol-ark.
And, you need the split-phase configuration, to have direct control over the Microinverters, in your situation.
Got it.

So this was amazing. Thanks so much! You've given me the direction I needed! I appreciate your time.

I'm going to go away and start reading up on the Sol-Ark stuff, look into micro-inverter options and transfer switch options.
 
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