New to solar, looking at purchasing a system

[solaruser60]

I had visited the solar subreddit ans got directed to this forum and to the company signature solar to start pricing and comparing systems. I'm still pretty green when it comes to knowing what's good or not for products. I'll list the system I'm interested in.

Complete Off-Grid Solar Kit EG4 6000XP | 8000W PV Input | 6000W Output | 48V 280Ah | 14.3kWh | WallMount Indoor Battery + Up To 7200W PV Solar

Complete Off-Grid Solar Kit: EG4 6000XP, 8000W PV Input, 6000W Output, 48V 280Ah, 14.3kWh Wall-Mount Battery, and Up to 7200W PV Solar Power.

signaturesolar.com

I'm looking to add a system to my home and either eventually grow it to the point I don't need grid tied power or that I can switch to a hybrid system. Is this a good system to do either one of those things with or should I be looking elsewhere?

 

[svetz]

Welcome to the forums!

I'm looking to add a system to my home and either eventually grow it ....

Growing a system over time is complicated because in the future you may not be able to get matching equipment that works with what you have. I'd suggest before spending any money you figure out what your end game is, then figure out a growth plan that meets your budget.

It also depends on where you live and what sort of Net-Metering agreement they have. If you have a good net-metering plan (e.g., Florida), then it makes sense to go hybrid right away as you start recouping your costs.

That said, for solar Microinverters were practically invented for growth over time as you can slowly add them without much care and can mix and match vendors (although the downside of different vendors is each has their own monitoring API), they also don't care about different solar panels (provided the microinverter can handles the panel specs) allowing you to mix up solar panel vendors/models/sizes. Microinverters tend to be slightly more expensive, but they have lots of benefits to them:

• Easily expandible over time, they allow for different panels of different types and ages to work together without loss
• No single point of failure, If one fails you're only out a panel's input until you can get it replaced.
• More reliable with longer warranties (25 years) than String inverters (~5-12 years)
• Replacement shipping costs are less because they're small and light.
• Typically they have high conversion efficiencies
• They are silent
• They are corrosion resistant
• They have very low self-consumption (e.g., not running cooling fans)
• Per panel MPPTs have individual panel optimization and will almost always outperform a String system
• Shade or different roof geometries on some panels do not cause loss from the rest of the panels
• They sit underneath the panel and don't take up additional space
• Lightweight, quick, and easy for one person to install, but one per panel means more time overall spent on it
• Typically you can get per-panel diagnostics which makes it much easier to diagnose problems
• Lower (240V in the U.S.) voltage off the roof.
• Don't need to do string designs or calculate string voltages/amperages (although see Microinverter Voltage Rise Design Issue)
• The RSD & Arc-Fault is built-in
• Having a smaller wattage range, the efficiency sweet spot is wider (e.g., pulling low amps on a big inverter can fall outside the sweet spot)
• Some can work on or off grid, for example Enphase's IQ8 works off grid with or without a battery.

Growing batteries over time is also tricky. See Incrementally adding DC batteries to understand the problem. AC batteries (DC battery paired with inverter/charger to bypass the DC battery growth issues) allow for organic growth but vendors try to lock you into their system, see Incrementally Adding AC Batteries.

A battery is something you should put off as long as possible for three reasons: first prices are still falling, secondly the technology improves a lot each year, and finally V2H (allows you to use your EV battery for storage) is still in it's infancy and expensive - prices are expected to drop with competition. It might also make sense to wait out drill baby drill as there may be great incentives and tariff reductions in the next administration.

 

[yabert]

...or that I can switch to a hybrid system

This system with the 6000XP inverter is not an hybrid. It's off-grid.
It can be connect to grid, but can't send power to grid.

 

[k490]

That system EG4 6000xp is not a grid tie system it's for completely off grid if you exceed it's output on either 120V 3000W leg which is easy to do it will flip to grid mode for both legs if you connect the grid input. There in no blending of power between the grid and your inverter. If you don't connect the grid the inverter will shut the output down. Lets say have a stove or water heater kicks on the thing will flip back and forth lot of times you won't notice it very fast find out the power bill doesn't go down much panels are mostly not being used.

Depending on where you live AHJ (Authority having jurisdiction) folks who issues building permits typically is a city will not allow the 6000xp because it's not compliant with UL 9540A ESS that UL listing is inverter and battery are tested together as a system. The hybrid EG4-18KPV is approved in all states with the EG4 power pro battery. If you plan on permitting which I advise you do if your in the city I would look at going with an inverter that is approved. The 18kpv does not require to be grid tied that is the best way to go. Don't buy anything until you get everything approved by the AHJ, and interconnect agreement approved with your electric utility. Most use a company called Greenlancer to provide the plans there are others.

I would start with this website https://pvwatts.nrel.gov/ determine how much power you can generate at your home. Give you an idea ROI and how many panels you need. Just keep in mind that can't cover 100% of your roof need room around the permitter for fire fighters to get on the roof.

Also signature offers a list of contractors who install there products at a lower price then your typical door to door solar salesmen if you want to just pay someone to do all of this for you. Obviously want to get multiple quotes but DIY can save you money if your goal is to just get something installed your not interested in tinkering with solar might want to just outsource the job. It's a lot to learn not something just slap on the roof run a few wires and it's working the bundle kits don't include everything.

It's also not impossible to DIY it I would suggest watching videos on YouTube on others who did DIY permitted solar systems. You can go non-permitted always run the risk of being caught sometimes solar contractors who are working in the area report non permitted systems if they see it. They think it gives the industry a bad name if it looks DIY installed. If your in a rural area might get away with no one noticing many do.

 

[solaruser60]

Welcome to the forums!



Growing a system over time is complicated because in the future you may not be able to get matching equipment that works with what you have. I'd suggest before spending any money you figure out what your end game is, then figure out a growth plan that meets your budget.

It also depends on where you live and what sort of Net-Metering agreement they have. If you have a good net-metering plan (e.g., Florida), then it makes sense to go hybrid right away as you start recouping your costs.

That said, for solar Microinverters were practically invented for growth over time as you can slowly add them without much care and can mix and match vendors (although the downside of different vendors is each has their own monitoring API), they also don't care about different solar panels (provided the microinverter can handles the panel specs) allowing you to mix up solar panel vendors/models/sizes. Microinverters tend to be slightly more expensive, but they have lots of benefits to them:

• Easily expandible over time, they allow for different panels of different types and ages to work together without loss
• No single point of failure, If one fails you're only out a panel's input until you can get it replaced.
• More reliable with longer warranties (25 years) than String inverters (~5-12 years)
• Replacement shipping costs are less because they're small and light.
• Typically they have high conversion efficiencies
• They are silent
• They are corrosion resistant
• They have very low self-consumption (e.g., not running cooling fans)
• Per panel MPPTs have individual panel optimization and will almost always outperform a String system
• Shade or different roof geometries on some panels do not cause loss from the rest of the panels
• They sit underneath the panel and don't take up additional space
• Lightweight, quick, and easy for one person to install, but one per panel means more time overall spent on it
• Typically you can get per-panel diagnostics which makes it much easier to diagnose problems
• Lower (240V in the U.S.) voltage off the roof.
• Don't need to do string designs or calculate string voltages/amperages (although see Microinverter Voltage Rise Design Issue)
• The RSD & Arc-Fault is built-in
• Having a smaller wattage range, the efficiency sweet spot is wider (e.g., pulling low amps on a big inverter can fall outside the sweet spot)
• Some can work on or off grid, for example Enphase's IQ8 works off grid with or without a battery.

Growing batteries over time is also tricky. See Incrementally adding DC batteries to understand the problem. AC batteries (DC battery paired with inverter/charger to bypass the DC battery growth issues) allow for organic growth but vendors try to lock you into their system, see Incrementally Adding AC Batteries.

A battery is something you should put off as long as possible for three reasons: first prices are still falling, secondly the technology improves a lot each year, and finally V2H (allows you to use your EV battery for storage) is still in it's infancy and expensive - prices are expected to drop with competition. It might also make sense to wait out drill baby drill as there may be great incentives and tariff reductions in the next administration.

Thanks for responding, I had been looking to the microinverter systems, to me it just looked like all upsides but most of what I saw ended up being grid tied. I knew I eventually wanted storage and I was told the kit I have listed is fairly easy to expand on, both with storage and panels. I did purchase the system, mostly because I had wanted to but am concerned about the aforementioned administration. I'm in one of the states that will be affected by Canadian energy increase. Realistically I'm happy with an off grid, I just like the idea of getting money back from the power company, but reliably having power comes first.

 

[SunDave]

I'm in one of the states that will be affected by Canadian energy increase.

You won't likely notice. If less that 1%-4% (depending on the state you mean) of our power comes from there, a 25% increase on a few percent is not something you would notice on a bill unless your power company decided to use it as an excuse to raise rates. It is a fraction of a fraction of a percent. And that is only if your local power company can't find a better rate than paying the extra 25%.

Some things are sensationalized, and it's a good idea to keep them in perspective using math.

 

[k490]

Thanks for responding, I had been looking to the microinverter systems, to me it just looked like all upsides but most of what I saw ended up being grid tied. I knew I eventually wanted storage and I was told the kit I have listed is fairly easy to expand on, both with storage and panels. I did purchase the system, mostly because I had wanted to but am concerned about the aforementioned administration. I'm in one of the states that will be affected by Canadian energy increase. Realistically I'm happy with an off grid, I just like the idea of getting money back from the power company, but reliably having power comes first.

The other thing to think about is been some posts on the forum that EG-4 is going to raise prices by 47% due to the tariffs imposed on Chinese imports. What they have in stock right now they haven't raised the prices yet. Good luck with your system.

 

[solaruser60]

You won't likely notice. If less that 1%-4% (depending on the state you mean) of our power comes from there, a 25% increase on a few percent is not something you would notice on a bill unless your power company decided to use it as an excuse to raise rates. It is a fraction of a fraction of a percent. And that is only if your local power company can't find a better rate than paying the extra 25%.

Some things are sensationalized, and it's a good idea to keep them in perspective using math.

And that's definitely fair, my problem was I couldn't find information on how much this was going to affect me specifically. So my best case is to assume/prepare for the worst. Again not that this system was going to save me or anything, it's a combination of factors. Potential systems costs increasing due to tariffs, power increases with tariffs but I also found out my state is looking to increase costs over the next X amount of years, there was a sale on the system, and it's something I've wanted for a while so it just seemed like a good time to finally pull the trigger.

 

[solaruser60]

That system EG4 6000xp is not a grid tie system it's for completely off grid if you exceed it's output on either 120V 3000W leg which is easy to do it will flip to grid mode for both legs if you connect the grid input. There in no blending of power between the grid and your inverter. If you don't connect the grid the inverter will shut the output down. Lets say have a stove or water heater kicks on the thing will flip back and forth lot of times you won't notice it very fast find out the power bill doesn't go down much panels are mostly not being used.

Depending on where you live AHJ (Authority having jurisdiction) folks who issues building permits typically is a city will not allow the 6000xp because it's not compliant with UL 9540A ESS that UL listing is inverter and battery are tested together as a system. The hybrid EG4-18KPV is approved in all states with the EG4 power pro battery. If you plan on permitting which I advise you do if your in the city I would look at going with an inverter that is approved. The 18kpv does not require to be grid tied that is the best way to go. Don't buy anything until you get everything approved by the AHJ, and interconnect agreement approved with your electric utility. Most use a company called Greenlancer to provide the plans there are others.

I would start with this website https://pvwatts.nrel.gov/ determine how much power you can generate at your home. Give you an idea ROI and how many panels you need. Just keep in mind that can't cover 100% of your roof need room around the permitter for fire fighters to get on the roof.

Also signature offers a list of contractors who install there products at a lower price then your typical door to door solar salesmen if you want to just pay someone to do all of this for you. Obviously want to get multiple quotes but DIY can save you money if your goal is to just get something installed your not interested in tinkering with solar might want to just outsource the job. It's a lot to learn not something just slap on the roof run a few wires and it's working the bundle kits don't include everything.

It's also not impossible to DIY it I would suggest watching videos on YouTube on others who did DIY permitted solar systems. You can go non-permitted always run the risk of being caught sometimes solar contractors who are working in the area report non permitted systems if they see it. They think it gives the industry a bad name if it looks DIY installed. If your in a rural area might get away with no one noticing many do.

Thanks for the reply, I did check with the local authorities and the only permit I need is to build a ground mount system. I guess I hadn't considered the fact you could charge the batteries via grid tie so it didn't occur to me to check. I have a background in electronics but solar is still relatively new to me, I see off grid system, I think off grid system. ( Which I'm sure sounds stupid based on how I worded the original post)
With regard to the power consumption/tripping the output I think I should be alright, range, water heater and furnace are all gas, so there shouldn't be too much for large power draw. I think my well pump and washer/dryer are the only things that I would be worried about.