New van system.

[Wharfrat]

Hi all, I’m looking for a eduction and some help putting together my first electrical system for my van.

Quick usage profile. Espar heater, Maxair, eight LED cans, water pump, water heater, electric cooler, wee boost, laptop and phone charging. Mostly used for long weekends 3-4 days with a 2.5-6 hour drive on both ends of the trip. Tend to drive while tripping .25-2 hours a day at most. Never hang at van except after dark and only for a couple to few hours absolutely max. I guess if I get a rain day this can change but it’s rare. I’ll take 1-2 2-3 week trips annually otherwise. I use my van to get to places to recreate outdoors not hang at or in my van.

Im thinking 200 amp hours lithium and 200 watts solar. I’d like alternator charging along with solar and shore.

I was thinking goal zero with the Freedom VanGo harnesses to simplify not knowing what I’m doing. But I’ve been convinced to build my own system. I’ll need help sourcing appropriate components sizing wire and with general system layout and wiring.

Ive read enough to know in my climate New England I need to address cold weather with Lithium batteries. I’ve also picked up on things like certain components only allowing for so much solar charge vrs alternator If not sized properly to each other.

I also know sprinters from at least what MBUSA saiz does not like their electrical system tied into and you know I don’t wanna make a rookie mistake and do something stupid. I loosely grasp concepts suck as trickle charge and isolation but only loosely.

I found that Renology DC to DC unit that’s a all in one prior to finding this site and was intrigued. I’ve since noticed it can’t do shore power charging. That wont work for me. Add to it I hear some not great things about Renology in general.

I was gonna dish out about $5500 for the Goal Zero and pre made harnesses. I’m not gonna anymore. I have however found a victron bundle with two 100amp Battleborn and what looks to me to be everything I need including a system monitor minus the wires and terminals for like $3500. I’ll post a link following this post. Point in mentioning the Victron unit is I want to go high end as I can as I don’t half ass anything. I’m a custom cabinet maker furniture maker by trade and it’s not in my blood to cut corners or bargain hunt. On the other hand my budget obeying a cabinet maker” as I’m buying the components to build my van as I go asI refuse to put it on credit and I’m not the type that’s got $30k cash to just spend building out a van all at once.

Any help would be appreciated. Ideally someone would lead me to a Victron kit suited to my needs in my price range not so complicated that with minor guidance I could set it up myself. I may have someone local to help that’s is well versed in this stuff but I should have my components ready to go. Better chance I’m on my own.

So greatfull for forums as they have allowed me to learn to do anything I’ve ever desired by myself. Rather I should say with a little help form a internet friend or two.

 

[Wharfrat]

This is the Voctron bundle. Have no idea if it’s suited to my application and needs. I think it is but I also don’t know much.

Sorry to be annoying to those that have been whiteness to this six billion times.

Battle Born Batteries TW30200 - Inverter Supply

Shop for Battle Born Batteries TW30200 at Inverter Supply for best prices online. Battle Born Batteries TW30200, Battle Born Batteries, TW30200, Towable 30A Kit - 200Ah, Battle Born Towable Bundles

www.invertersupply.com

 

[rmaddy]

Battle Born has those bundles directly. They have the one you linked but they have a similar one you might consider. See:

Battle Born Energy Van 200Ah Kit

Click here to check out our Van/Overland 200Ah bundle and see how LiFePO4 can help you get out there and stay out there!

battlebornbatteries.com

But before you decide on battery capacity and solar panels, do an energy audit and determine how many watt hours of energy you will actually need on a given trip. Then you can determine how much battery you need and take into account having solar when the weather permits, charging while driving, or, gasp, plugging into shore power.

But to give you an idea, if you start with the $3400 bundle, you might spend $100-$200 on solar panels and another $200-$500 on wire, fuses, breakers, etc. plus your main components like the fan, lights, water heater, etc. Then there are tools. There are always tools to be had.

You can save a lot on batteries if you go DIY. But you can't go wrong with Battle Born if you have the money. Same with Victron. Top-of-the-line stuff.

Keep in mind that even with the bundle, it's not just a simple kit you install and you are done. You need proper wire, fuses, breakers, connectors, etc. You need to figure out where it all goes. You need to worry about proper ventilation/heating/cooling of the components.

 

[Wharfrat]

Battle Born has those bundles directly. They have the one you linked but they have a similar one you might consider. See:

Battle Born Energy Van 200Ah Kit

Click here to check out our Van/Overland 200Ah bundle and see how LiFePO4 can help you get out there and stay out there!

battlebornbatteries.com

But before you decide on battery capacity and solar panels, do an energy audit and determine how many watt hours of energy you will actually need on a given trip. Then you can determine how much battery you need and take into account having solar when the weather permits, charging while driving, or, gasp, plugging into shore power.

But to give you an idea, if you start with the $3400 bundle, you might spend $100-$200 on solar panels and another $200-$500 on wire, fuses, breakers, etc. plus your main components like the fan, lights, water heater, etc. Then there are tools. There are always tools to be had.

You can save a lot on batteries if you go DIY. But you can't go wrong with Battle Born if you have the money. Same with Victron. Top-of-the-line stuff.

Keep in mind that even with the bundle, it's not just a simple kit you install and you are done. You need proper wire, fuses, breakers, connectors, etc. You need to figure out where it all goes. You need to worry about proper ventilation/heating/cooling of the components.

Thanks for responding.

I will take the time to do the actual energy audit. I kinda just figure overbuild. I’ve run into a number of other Van people shared my needs and based on their builds and experiences am told 200 is more than enough for me. I’d happily go 300 as what’s another $1000 when considering the cost of building out van. That’s given I can build this myself as if not well it’s back to goal zero.

Ive got tools as I’ve done plenty of electrical work wiring up old old woodworking machines when restoring them and or vfd’s to them phase converters and the such, residential sub panels and well my entire wood shop. I’m no electrician but I’ve gotten this far. I think I mostly know when a question needs to be asked and formulate the right questions?

With that said I’ll need some serious guidance on all the above mentioned in your response. As I said ideally a very specific road map much like those provided in the more generic builds offered on the site connected to this forum. With that much info on my Victron build I’d be off to the races.

I figured I’d spend another $1000 plus on wire, terminals heat shrink, maybe a ine off random crimper blah blah. I actually have a full gamut of Whia Electical tools. Kinda tool nerd of sorts.

So the the question is is it realistic to think I can get the answers to the potential questions as outlined by you above here as I go?

 

[Wharfrat]

So I followed your link and found this.

https://1t1pye1e13di20waq11old70-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Van_Overland-200Ah.png

All looks pretty straight forward “fuses indicated” wire gauges not so much. Lingering questions would be the distribution panel and wire gauges. I take it that is where my various components are hooked up much like a breaker panel but with fuses vrs breakers?

There is solar to figure out. I have 90 watts of the 200 I’ll need in the form of hood mount units. The remaining 100 has to go on the roof all be it limited space as it’s full of my outdoor toys.

Ill need to address keeping the batteries warm but I could use Battleborns heating pad. No big deal $250…. That is if that’s a solution in my climate.

Ideally i out this together sans my alternator on a bench and test it before burning my van down but ideally by then I just know what I’m doing enough there’s nothing to worry about.

 

[rmaddy]

So the the question is is it realistic to think I can get the answers to the potential questions as outlined by you above here as I go?

Sure. I would think there are lots of vans/campers/trailers on the road today built with info learned on these forums. I'm typing this from my new home of three days - a cargo trailer camper. While I did a lot of research independent of this site, this site was instrumental in nailing down some details. There are countless YT videos and van life websites and tutorials that will get you 85% of the way there. But there is nothing like leaning on these forums to get specific questions answered.

One suggestion - ask questions and finalize everything before you buy a single bit. This forum is full of people that bought random stuff because it was on sale or whatever and then asked questions only to learn half their stuff won't fit their needs.

Enjoy the journey.

 

[Wharfrat]

Sure. I would think there are lots of vans/campers/trailers on the road today built with info learned on these forums. I'm typing this from my new home of three days - a cargo trailer camper. While I did a lot of research independent of this site, this site was instrumental in nailing down some details. There are countless YT videos and van life websites and tutorials that will get you 85% of the way there. But there is nothing like leaning on these forums to get specific questions answered.

One suggestion - ask questions and finalize everything before you buy a single bit. This forum is full of people that bought random stuff because it was on sale or whatever and then asked questions only to learn half their stuff won't fit their needs.

Enjoy the journey.

Thanks man and congrats on the new home.

My intention is as you suggest to get enough of a conversation going I know I’m buying exactly what I need and nothing else.

It should be a great journey and maybe one that can lead to a residential build of sorts as I plan to relocate myself in the next year or two and I hope to a much more simple way of living. Solar hot water so forth and so on.

Lots to Learn. Keeps life fun..

 

[rmaddy]

All looks pretty straight forward “fuses indicated” wire gauges not so much.

There are many charts and websites to help with wire size and fuse size. I like the Blue Sea Systems diagram.

Protect Your Boat With The Correct Size Wire And Fuse - Wire Size Chart Download pdf

They also have a phone app to help with wire sizing.

Circuit Wizard - Blue Sea Systems

Lingering questions would be the distribution panel and wire gauges. I take it that is where my various components are hooked up much like a breaker panel but with fuses vrs breakers?

The distribution panel in that diagram is an actual AC breaker panel connected to the AC-out of the inverter. You need a main breaker and a couple branch breakers going to your outlets.

What's not in that diagram is a 12V fuse box such as:

ST Blade Fuse Block - 12 Circuits with Negative Bus and Cover - Blue Sea Systems

Compact ATO® / ATC® fuse block consolidates branch circuits and eliminates the tangle of in-line fuses for electronics and other appliances.

www.bluesea.com

That is where you would connect your fan, water pump, lights, etc. with the proper fuses.

Ill need to address keeping the batteries warm but I could use Battleborns heating pad. No big deal $250…. That is if that’s a solution in my climate.

LiFePO4 batteries can't be charged below 32ºF. You can use them a bit colder than that but charging them below freezing will permanently damage them.

There is solar to figure out. I have 90 watts of the 200 I’ll need in the form of hood mount units. The remaining 100 has to go on the roof all be it limited space as it’s full of my outdoor toys.

You can't really hook up a few random solar panels to one solar charge controller and expect good results. Ideally you buy 2-4 identical panels depending on size (physical and power).

 

[rmaddy]

Solar hot water so forth and so on

Keep in mind that electric heat (for water or cooking) requires a lot of battery and solar. Propane or other options may be better.

 

[Wharfrat]

There are many charts and websites to help with wire size and fuse size. I like the Blue Sea Systems diagram.

Protect Your Boat With The Correct Size Wire And Fuse - Wire Size Chart Download pdf

They also have a phone app to help with wire sizing.

Circuit Wizard - Blue Sea Systems

The distribution panel in that diagram is an actual AC breaker panel connected to the AC-out of the inverter. You need a main breaker and a couple branch breakers going to your outlets.

What's not in that diagram is a 12V fuse box such as:

ST Blade Fuse Block - 12 Circuits with Negative Bus and Cover - Blue Sea Systems

Compact ATO® / ATC® fuse block consolidates branch circuits and eliminates the tangle of in-line fuses for electronics and other appliances.

www.bluesea.com

That is where you would connect your fan, water pump, lights, etc. with the proper fuses.



LiFePO4 batteries can't be charged below 32ºF. You can use them a bit colder than that but charging them below freezing will permanently damage them.



You can't really hook up a few random solar panels to one solar charge controller and expect good results. Ideally you buy 2-4 identical panels depending on size (physical and power).

Hmm how to reply.

Good info on the AC vrs DC. I wasn’t sure if those boxes where both combined somehow or need be separate. So that there is something g for me to clarify. This is a step in the right direction.

I am aware I need the 12vdc for the Espar fan and lights. And the AC for my laptop and such regular electronic household devices.

As for lithium I was u dear the impression that is kept above 32% I’d be good and that there are ways to do so such as the heating pad Battlborn makes. I also hear of batteries with built in heaters and then units like the Renology that sense temperature and will turn charging on and off on its own to protect the batteries. Fact is my van will get little use in the winter largely because of salt and concerns with rust.

My intention is to stay with the brand solar panel I have already purchased Into. I’m told they can meet my rooftop 100 watt needs also.

 

[Wharfrat]

Keep in mind that electric heat (for water or cooking) requires a lot of battery and solar. Propane or other options may be better.

Yes Im easy, I’ll have hot water. But no cooking in the van proper. Well a jetboil for tea but that’s if. I’m in the van to be in nature, I’m in nature to get away from “things” I cook on a open fire when camping in the van. otherwise I’m vegan and happy to eat a raw diet. I will have A pretty sweet camp stove prep area cooking area long term off my back door in a large exterior mounted storage box. No interest in having my van stuffed with cabinets and crap.

Being a high end cab maker the fit and finish will not suffer but the build will be simple I’ll only have a fancy floor, walls, ceiling, wheel well cabs a platform bed and Led lights. Maybe a Lagun table behind the drivers seat? With that said my electrical needs just can’t be very high as there’s nothing in there.

Right now I use a goal zero lantern to avoid the house lights and I’m ahoy enough tbh..

 

[rmaddy]

Good info on the AC vrs DC. I wasn’t sure if those boxes where both combined somehow or need be separate. So that there is something g for me to clarify. This is a step in the right direction.

There are panels that comprise both. I'm using one in my trailer. I have the following:

Amazon.com: WFCO WF-8930/WF-8950 Ultra Distribution Panel, 30/50 AMP : Electronics

Buy WFCO WF-8930/WF-8950 Ultra Distribution Panel, 30/50 AMP: Distribution Panels - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

but it doesn't seem to be available now. But at least that might point you in a direction.

I am aware I need the 12vdc for the Espar fan and lights. And the AC for my laptop and such regular electronic household devices.

Try to use as much DC and as little AC as possible. The inverter will use power just being turned on even if nothing is plugged in. Put in a few 12V power sockets and use DC adapters where possible for things like your laptop. Inverters are great when needed but the conversion is inefficient, especially when you plug in a DC device with an AC power adapter. You're going from DC to AC to DC. That's a double loss of efficiency.

 

[Wharfrat]

There are panels that comprise both. I'm using one in my trailer. I have the following:

Amazon.com: WFCO WF-8930/WF-8950 Ultra Distribution Panel, 30/50 AMP : Electronics

Buy WFCO WF-8930/WF-8950 Ultra Distribution Panel, 30/50 AMP: Distribution Panels - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

but it doesn't seem to be available now. But at least that might point you in a direction.


Try to use as much DC and as little AC as possible. The inverter will use power just being turned on even if nothing is plugged in. Put in a few 12V power sockets and use DC adapters where possible for things like your laptop. Inverters are great when needed but the conversion is inefficient, especially when you plug in a DC device with an AC power adapter. You're going from DC to AC to DC. That's a double loss of efficiency.

Ah got it on the AC DC. Actually have a DC cigarette lighter adapter in the mail for the laptop so I can at least use and or charge it while driving for the time being. So I’ll just continue to use that even after the system is built..

 

[SteveCA]

I have an all Victron system in my van with a 10.6 KWH Tesla based Lithium system. I spent many many hours researching my project before building it. Ill post a complete component list when I get some time. The system is fantastic, with no glitches, will run AC overnight no problem. I got a lot of help from James Hall at Arizona wind and solar. He has done a bunch of installations and has intimate real world knowldege

 

[Wharfrat]

I have an all Victron system in my van with a 10.6 KWH Tesla based Lithium system. I spent many many hours researching my project before building it. Ill post a complete component list when I get some time. The system is fantastic, with no glitches, will run AC overnight no problem. I got a lot of help from James Hall at Arizona wind and solar. He has done a bunch of installations and has intimate real world knowldege

Thanks I’d appreciate that. What’s the story with the Tesla batteries vrs say the Battleborn or Victron?

 

[SteveCA]

Thanks I’d appreciate that. What’s the story with the Tesla batteries vrs say the Battleborn or Victron?

Sorry, Im not sure what your question is, but other than the battery, all the other components can be the same

 

[Wharfrat]

Sorry, Im not sure what your question is, but other than the battery, all the other components can be the same

Is the Tesla battery superior on some way?

 

[SteveCA]

Is the Tesla battery superior on some way?

Here are the pros and cons: build quality is second to none. They are built for much higher amperage draw than any other battery bar none. Their durability and longevity is second to none. Cost is significantly lower than Victron, battleborn, Lithionics (all of which are quality supliers) . Cost is higher than DIY using 280AH cells. Now for the cons: requires in depth knowledge of charging and discharging parameters (but thats not a big difference from other lithium). Is a potential fire hazard, unlike LiFe P04, if over charged, physically damaged, shorted. This cannot be overemphasized as any Tesla battery fire is a big deal. You cannot put it out. It will burn until it is done. Therefore, it is only for folks that thoroughly understand the risks and will actively monitor during usage, especially while charging.

 

[Wharfrat]

Here are the pros and cons: build quality is second to none. They are built for much higher amperage draw than any other battery bar none. Their durability and longevity is second to none. Cost is significantly lower than Victron, battleborn, Lithionics (all of which are quality supliers) . Cost is higher than DIY using 280AH cells. Now for the cons: requires in depth knowledge of charging and discharging parameters (but thats not a big difference from other lithium). Is a potential fire hazard, unlike LiFe P04, if over charged, physically damaged, shorted. This cannot be overemphasized as any Tesla battery fire is a big deal. You cannot put it out. It will burn until it is done. Therefore, it is only for folks that thoroughly understand the risks and will actively monitor during usage, especially while charging.

We’ll here one less thing to think about, Tesla batteries are not for me lol…

 

[SteveCA]

We’ll here one less thing to think about, Tesla batteries are not for me lol…

Yep, they are not for most people.