New Victron Multiplus-II 12/3000/120-50 designed specifically for RVs with 30A/50A input flexibility available MARCH 2021

[InMyImage]

This new Victron seems to be missing a useful feature available on the Samlex EVO series, does it allow direct connection and load sharing for external MPPTs or generators? Samlex treats the battery bank like a big flywheel and combines available input power sources to supply the inverter/charger.

My understanding is that the MPPT(s) charging bypasses the inverter and charges the batteries directly so the Inverter uses any power coming in from the MPPT by defaul. Victron MPPTs can communicate with the MultiPlus (and Quattro) although I don’t know exactly there is to communicate...

The new MultiPlus will supplement the AC source regardless of whether it is shore power or generator. Additionally it can be programmed to start a generator, here’s a snippet from the manual:

Programmable relay
The MultiPlus is equipped with a programmable relay. The relay can be programmed for different applications, for example as a
starter relay for a generator.

 

[the_colorist]

The Samlex feature mentioned appears to be a combination several features Victron has natively. In fact, IMHO Victron's take on it is more advanced. The total battery charge current limitation and solar charge priority is handled by the GX based on its communication with the inverters and the charge controllers. PowerAssist for input current limits. Grid-Zero solar usage priority using current sensors.

So for a 50amp service 5th wheel with Tesla modules hoping to use as much of their usable range as possible, what do you with more experience than I, recommend. I don't want any hacks or "only assist on one leg" stuff.

Unfortunately if you need assist on both legs of your 50A input with Victron, there are basically 2 options:

1. Stack 2 x 120V inverters in a split-phase configuration (expensive, recommended).
2. Use the lower-cost 230V Multiplus with an AutoTransformer (works, my preference, can be tricky to install).

As you may know, Victron only has 48V 120V inverter/chargers in the Quattro series right now. They have been listening and there is a new model on the way (literally on the boat to NA I'm told) that was supposed to be available last month. It's called the MultiPlus-II 48/3000/35-32 120V.

We already have it in Victron's latest 2021 Q1 catalog. I find them to be ideal for 6KVA split-phase applications for the price. Victron's MRSP is almost exactly halfway between the current MultiPlus-II 48/5000/70-50 230V and the MultiPlus-II 48/3000/35-32 230V.

For now, a person could pair a couple of 48V 3K/5K/10K 120V Quattro units. Not as cheap for sure as the new Multiplus will be (particularly without a discount from me or another dealer) but will get the job done. Otherwise, the 10KVA 120V you mentioned would need an autotransformer and you lose assist on one leg.

If a person is cost-conscious and adventurous, one of the 230V models combined with the autotransformer would work. Such as the MPII 48/5K 230V or the Quattro 10K 230V. The only downside you won't be able to use 120V hookups.

Here is the autotransformer datasheet with some explanation. Note Figure 1: Split phase supply for unbalanced load.

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Datasheet-Autotransformer-32A-and-100A-EN.pdf

 

[the_colorist]

Tesla modules are cool. Considered using them in the past and may yet in the future. We've used plenty of Nissan modules. Bought them by the full packs. Performing extremely well across multiple client installations.

As a side note, for those in the future considering BattleBorn or Relion etc, let's just say currently the Victron Smart 12,8V & 25,6V batteries are a viable alternative cost-wise. Not quite the same price but close. I can't always do this but depending on what a person needs I can come close to matching. Sometimes even beating depending on the model a person wants.

Lithium Battery Smart 12,8V & 25,6V - Victron Energy

Lithium battery Smart 12,8V & 25,6V has a longer service life, superior reliability and excellent efficiency. Find a dealer near you.

www.victronenergy.com

They have quite a few advantages over competing drop-in models. Series-capable up to 48V/1500AH. Cross-battery cell-balancing. Native Victron integration. Optimized for use in marine and alternator-based environments.

 

[the_colorist]

My understanding is that the MPPT(s) charging bypasses the inverter and charges the batteries directly so the Inverter uses any power coming in from the MPPT by defaul. Victron MPPTs can communicate with the MultiPlus (and Quattro) although I don’t know exactly there is to communicate...

One of the main reasons you want communication is so that when you are combining AC-Input and PV-input along with a max charging current to the battery bank (100A etc), the inverter will back down its charging current as the MPPT input current increases and vise versa to maintain solar charging priority but still charge at the max current the battery bank is capable of. There are others as well but that is one of the main ones IMHO.

 

[unsubscribed]

Waiting to see a 24 V version of the Multiplus II hit production. It's biggest claim to fame is that it's supposed to be more efficient than the Multiplus.

 

[the_colorist]

For most RV installations that include solar, my recommendation would be an ESS configuration with solar priority so when there is excess power from the MPPT's, even if there is a hookup connected, all AC/DC loads would be carried by the PV first with AC-Input secondary. And for some configurations, AC-Input could be configured to only be used when the battery reaches for example 50% SOC etc, to ensure the least amount of input is used at any given time. Or at least that charging is handled at night when rates are lowest assuming off-peak rates.

 

[the_colorist]

Waiting to see a 24 V version of the Multiplus II hit production. It's biggest claim to fame is that it's supposed to be more efficient than the Multiplus.

We have this in the 24V 230V MPII but no word on a 120V MPII. I'm guessing end of next year if it comes to market. The 24V MPII 230V works in many cases with the Autotransformer.

Here are some notes from a Victron Community Manager on the core differences:

Why is the Multiplus II cheaper than the old one? - Victron Community

community.victronenergy.com

 

[Firstascent]

The retail pricing on the MultiPlus II 12/3000/120-50 2x120V is ranging roughly $1,487 - $1,570.

I can offer a discount on that price but a person would need to PM me for a quote.

If a person is ordering through me and they put in their order by/on Monday, they could have in it about 2 to 2-1/2 weeks or so but there is very, very limited stock so I cannot completely guarantee that. Victron sent in an initial batch via air but it was small and going fast.

Any orders placed beyond that would likely be closer to 4-6 weeks due to the next large shipment coming into the Victron US warehouse via sea and it's still a while out.

The new MultiPlus-II 48/3000/35-32 120V is still a few weeks out. Street pricing will likely be close to the same. Still confirming that.

PM sent, I’d love to get my RV solar build finished haha. My battery pack has been sitting on my floor for almost 10 months now

 

[InMyImage]

One of the main reasons you want communication is so that when you are combining AC-Input and PV-input along with a max charging current to the battery bank (100A etc), the inverter will back down its charging current as the MPPT input current increases and vise versa to maintain solar charging priority but still charge at the max current the battery bank is capable of. There are others as well but that is one of the main ones IMHO.

Good to know, Thx ?

For most RV installations that include solar, my recommendation would be an ESS configuration with solar priority so when there is excess power from the MPPT's, even if there is a hookup connected, all AC/DC loads would be carried by the PV first with AC-Input secondary. And for some configurations, AC-Input could be configured to only be used when the battery reaches for example 50% SOC etc, to ensure the least amount of input is used at any given time. Or at least that charging is handled at night when rates are lowest assuming off-peak rates.

The ESS configuration is a standard feature of both the MultiPlus and MultiPlus 2x120 right?

 

[the_colorist]

The ESS configuration is a standard feature of both the MultiPlus and MultiPlus 2x120 right?

It can be done with the UL versions of the standard Multiplus but not the 2x120 as it's not UL certified. I made a mistake in what I had previously stated (slipped my mind) and due to issues with loss of mains detection (LOM) and other things, it's not possible/ideal/borderline illegal to grid-zero with a DC ESS on a motor vehicle/boat. There are a few other ways to prioritize PV over the grid though, it's just a little more complex to setup.

 

[HaldorEE]

If your shipment was skiing in Denver then it was smoking some of that whacky weed. There's no skiing in Denver. Gotta head up into the mountains for that.

I was planning to retire this year, but maybe not. I'm hoping to GTFO CO and get to Wyoming. I can work remotely from anywhere.

I'm hoping to head to AZ within a few weeks, near Dolan Springs, for some camping and off-road adventures.

Have you ever seen electronic components ski? The parking lot of the lodge is all they can handle.

 

[HaldorEE]

If your shipment was skiing in Denver then it was smoking some of that whacky weed. There's no skiing in Denver. Gotta head up into the mountains for that.

I was planning to retire this year, but maybe not. I'm hoping to GTFO CO and get to Wyoming. I can work remotely from anywhere.

I'm hoping to head to AZ within a few weeks, near Dolan Springs, for some camping and off-road adventures.

Very cool. If you take Rt 66 through Seligman, be sure to stop for a meal at Lilo's East-Side. Really excellent German food.

This picture was taken at Lilo's. And yes that cinnamon roll was bigger than my head. Took 6 riders and one passenger to finish it off.

I am glad to say, this was before I lost 60 lb. Been doing the Intermittent Fasting thing since May of 2020. Had to buy all new clothes.

 

[HaldorEE]

My understanding is that the MPPT(s) charging bypasses the inverter and charges the batteries directly so the Inverter uses any power coming in from the MPPT by defaul. Victron MPPTs can communicate with the MultiPlus (and Quattro) although I don’t know exactly there is to communicate...

The new MultiPlus will supplement the AC source regardless of whether it is shore power or generator. Additionally it can be programmed to start a generator, here’s a snippet from the manual:

Programmable relay
The MultiPlus is equipped with a programmable relay. The relay can be programmed for different applications, for example as a
starter relay for a generator.

The communication comes when you add a battery monitor and/or a system controller.

I am using the temperature input of my Multiplus as a contact closure input to control battery charging. It would be fantastic if Victron would add BlueTooth and implement Victron.Connect in the Multiplus, like the smart version of the MPPT. That would be very cool.

 

[InMyImage]

The communication comes when you add a battery monitor and/or a system controller.

Thanks, I’ve learned a lot more as I do more research thanks to some patience in a private chat with @the_colorist giving me breadcrumbs to then come up with more question... he may regret confirming he is a Victron installer and distributor ???

Anyway... turns out that the MultiPlus and MPPT can communicate with each other about how much power the MPPT is pushing into the batteries so the MultiPlus can determine how much it should pump in from shore/grid/generator power based on the charging capacity of the batteries. If I recall correctly it can also use the information about PV input to determine priority of power management between battery (PV) state and shore/grid/generator power.

It would be fantastic if Victron would add BlueTooth and implement Victron.Connect in the Multiplus, like the smart version of the MPPT. That would be very cool.

Just want to confirm you are aware of the bluetooth dongle for the MultiPlus r
and if ao, what functionality do you think is missing that would increase the cool factor? (not meant to be sarcastic or arrogant, since I’m still in the research phase I’d genuinely like to know)

 

[snoobler]

One of the main reasons you want communication is so that when you are combining AC-Input and PV-input along with a max charging current to the battery bank (100A etc), the inverter will back down its charging current as the MPPT input current increases and vise versa to maintain solar charging priority but still charge at the max current the battery bank is capable of. There are others as well but that is one of the main ones IMHO.

This feature was transformative for me. My bank can only handle 30A charging, but my array can push 50A+ at 48V. Prior to GX, when off-site, I would simply set the MPPT to limit charging at 30A - no biggie. When on-site, I had to pay attention.

Now with the GX installed, it ensures no more than 30A is sent to the battery from any source including the generator.

 

[HaldorEE]

Thanks, I’ve learned a lot more as I do more research thanks to some patience in a private chat with @the_colorist giving me breadcrumbs to then come up with more question... he may regret confirming he is a Victron installer and distributor ???

Anyway... turns out that the MultiPlus and MPPT can communicate with each other about how much power the MPPT is pushing into the batteries so the MultiPlus can determine how much it should pump in from shore/grid/generator power based on the charging capacity of the batteries. If I recall correctly it can also use the information about PV input to determine priority of power management between battery (PV) state and shore/grid/generator power.



Just want to confirm you are aware of the bluetooth dongle for the MultiPlus r
and if ao, what functionality do you think is missing that would increase the cool factor? (not meant to be sarcastic or arrogant, since I’m still in the research phase I’d genuinely like to know)

I need to find out more. The Victron Solar MPPT Smart Solar Charger is the only Victron product I am aware of that supports change control directly from the BMV-712 via Bluetooth. Do you know if the bluetooth dongle for the Multiplus gives you the same functionality that the MPPT Smart has?

I know that that the Orion TR Smart, despite having Bluetooth, does not support Victron.Connect over BlueTooth. Which is weird since the Orion TR Smart is one of the newest products in the Victron product portfolio.

 

[HaldorEE]

This feature was transformative for me. My bank can only handle 30A charging, but my array can push 50A+ at 48V. Prior to GX, when off-site, I would simply set the MPPT to limit charging at 30A - no biggie. When on-site, I had to pay attention.

Now with the GX installed, it ensures no more than 30A is sent to the battery from any source including the generator.

Do you know the details of how this happens? I assume this is via VE.Bus.

 

[snoobler]

Do you know the details of how this happens? I assume this is via VE.Bus.

The GX devices manages attached devices connected via VE.Direct and/or VE.Bus. In my case, CCGX with MPPT 250/100 and BMV-702 via VE.Direct and the Quattro via VE.Bus. There are VE.Can connections too.

Relevant options are in the GX device configuration. DVCC needs to be enabled for these options to be available. This is what also allows sharing BMV-702/712 current, voltage and temperature data with other devices on the network.

 

[InMyImage]

I need to find out more. The Victron Solar MPPT Smart Solar Charger is the only Victron product I am aware of that supports change control directly from the BMV-712 via Bluetooth. Do you know if the bluetooth dongle for the Multiplus gives you the same functionality that the MPPT Smart has?

I know that that the Orion TR Smart, despite having Bluetooth, does not support Victron.Connect over BlueTooth. Which is weird since the Orion TR Smart is one of the newest products in the Victron product portfolio.

You are in deeper than me so far, I’d have to ask @the_colorist for an answer on that one.

 

[carbon60]

This is what Victron answered me regarding future MultiPlus II units:

We cannot give a solid date as to when a 24/3000 120V MultiPlus II model will be available. Focus in the short term is production and certifications for the MultiPlus II 2x120V for mobile and the MultiPlus II 48/3000 for stationary systems.