diy solar

diy solar

Newbie from Portugal building a house :)

My point was if you scan around through solar in Europe if anything it’s more diverse then anything in the US. There’s are net metering grid tied , non grid in abundance. Many countries have very different setups often driven by public policy initiatives and tax rebates.

But it’s as if not more diverse then the US that’s for sure.

Nope. You did not read my post thoroughly.
EU is basically Grid-Tie only. Different types of grid-tie ... but only grid-tie.

Of course since the grid is so good why would anyone in their right mind not want to have a connection everyone dors there’s none of this “ anti grid anti Gov anti authority politics “ which are behind some of the US non grid installs. It’s all political nonsense.

Again, read my post. Off-grid with grid support systems HAVE GRID !

By the way grid tied in a blackout DONT stop working you just have to have the correct anti-islanding system installed. My friend has just that. Please educate yourself as to the various country codes. He’s on a heavy forested area and suffers from tree fall.

The future is thd grid, all hail the grid. Get in line comrades

And this is nonsense.
If you have a simple Grid-tie like Fronius Symo/Primo, SolarEdge, Huawei, Enphase, ... system IT WILL STOP WORKING IN A BLACKOUT !!!
You can not do anything against it (except AC coupling it with a real Hybrid)

If you have a hybridized Grid-tie like Fronius GEN24 or Huawei M1 then you can install a Backup Box IF your utility company allows it.
And from them only GEN24 is able to produce 3 phase asymmetric power ... Huawei gives only 1 phase 3300VA.

Of course there are the real Hybrid inverters like DEYE, SAJ, Sungrow ... and they will give power even in a blackout but only in the PROTECTED LOAD side (they disconnect the GRID side).

You have much to learn in the hybrid part.
 
Nope. You did not read my post thoroughly.
EU is basically Grid-Tie only. Different types of grid-tie ... but only grid-tie.



Again, read my post. Off-grid with grid support systems HAVE GRID !



And this is nonsense.
If you have a simple Grid-tie like Fronius Symo/Primo, SolarEdge, Huawei, Enphase, ... system IT WILL STOP WORKING IN A BLACKOUT !!!
You can not do anything against it (except AC coupling it with a real Hybrid)

If you have a hybridized Grid-tie like Fronius GEN24 or Huawei M1 then you can install a Backup Box IF your utility company allows it.
And from them only GEN24 is able to produce 3 phase asymmetric power ... Huawei gives only 1 phase 3300VA.

Of course there are the real Hybrid inverters like DEYE, SAJ, Sungrow ... and they will give power even in a blackout but only in the PROTECTED LOAD side (they disconnect the GRID side).

You have much to learn in the hybrid part.
Eu design requirements for grid tied invertors require the invertor to shutdown if the grid tie fails.

There are workarounds etc.

I’m not sure how this differs from the us. As I said , within the eu you will get every sort of solar PV architecture. No different from the us. The two Markets are very similar

Nor do I see any compelling to be independent of a grid anyway. Thankfully in Europe we don’t have any significant “ prepper “ sub-culture.
 
Eu design requirements for grid tied invertors require the invertor to shutdown if the grid tie fails.

There are workarounds etc.

I’m not sure how this differs from the us. As I said , within the eu you will get every sort of solar PV architecture. No different from the us. The two Markets are very similar

Nor do I see any compelling to be independent of a grid anyway. Thankfully in Europe we don’t have any significant “ prepper “ sub-culture.
this is only true for purely gridtied inverters, hybrid inverters only the grid side needs to be shutdown..

and you statement about prepper culture is also half true ;
while not preparing for a end of the world scenario, people are getting extremely tired of being screwed over
 
this is only true for purely gridtied inverters, hybrid inverters only the grid side needs to be shutdown..

and you statement about prepper culture is also half true ;
while not preparing for a end of the world scenario, people are getting extremely tired of being screwed over
Screwed over by whom? And how is solar helping ? ( or not helping )
 
Eu design requirements for grid tied invertors require the invertor to shutdown if the grid tie fails.
This is not EU. It is global.
And you still do not understand the hybrid inverters.


There are workarounds etc.
Only AC coupling.
No other workaround.
If you know any other, please name it :)

I’m not sure how this differs from the us. As I said , within the eu you will get every sort of solar PV architecture. No different from the us. The two Markets are very similar
You are completely wrong.


Nor do I see any compelling to be independent of a grid anyway. Thankfully in Europe we don’t have any significant “ prepper “ sub-culture.
Still ... you do not understand the "WITH GRID SUPPORT" part :D
Did you never saw an MPP Solar inverter ? Or a clone like EASun SML, SMR, ... ?
Dont you understand the basic Peak Shaving method with inner backfeeding protection ?

Screwed over by whom? And how is solar helping ? ( or not helping )
When you buy 5-7x price the power as you sell it to grid for example. Like in Germany.
With a hybrid or off-grid with grid support inverter you store it in your battery, and use it at night.
Hybrid even can sell to the grid when the battery is full. Off-grid can not. It is only a load in the grid side.
 
This is not EU. It is global.
And you still do not understand the hybrid inverters.



Only AC coupling.
No other workaround.
If you know any other, please name it :)


You are completely wrong.



Still ... you do not understand the "WITH GRID SUPPORT" part :D
Did you never saw an MPP Solar inverter ? Or a clone like EASun SML, SMR, ... ?
Dont you understand the basic Peak Shaving method with inner backfeeding protection ?


When you buy 5-7x price the power as you sell it to grid for example. Like in Germany.
With a hybrid or off-grid with grid support inverter you store it in your battery, and use it at night.
Hybrid even can sell to the grid when the battery is full. Off-grid can not. It is only a load in the grid side.
Selling to the grid has no future for microgenerstion today it’s really simply a hidden Gov subsidy it needs to end.
 
Nope. You did not read my post thoroughly.
EU is basically Grid-Tie only. Different types of grid-tie ... but only grid-tie.
Not through all across EU. Grid tie has become more popular ( for good reason , especially as FIT HAS been mandated by EU directives ) but there are lots of non grid tie systems still around, particularly older one.

Grid tie is huge in the US too.
 
those are pretty simple questions to answer.
Electricity ( with exception of CA ) is very expensive here, and taxation in most European countries is about to sky rocket.
Add to that , that electricity prices are coupled to natural gas prices, and you get the point.

some people here had a 400% increase of the energy costs over the last few months.
Mostly due to gas, bit as electricity prices are coupled, it's been crazy

as the grid in most parts of europe is very very stable, it's a good idea to have it as a backup, but it makes sense to self generate as much a possible
Many European countries are now providing cash supplements to cover rising energy costs on the basis this is temporary. For 2022 to mid 2023 I have received €980 euros in electricity credits.

There is no evidence taxation will “ rocket “ in most EU economies. That’s just alarmist.
 
Many European countries are now providing cash supplements to cover rising energy costs on the basis this is temporary. For 2022 to mid 2023 I have received €980 euros in electricity credits.

There is no evidence taxation will “ rocket “ in most EU economies. That’s just alarmist.

The price was about 0,37 €/kWh for 2021.

Now I made a price calculation for a yearly 5.000 kWh in different cities in Germany (2023 prices).
Berlin : 2.583,30 € -> 0,52 €/kWh
Hamburg: 2.619,30 € -> 0,52 €/kWh
Frankfurt: 3.538,49 € -> 0,71 €/kWh
München: 3.592,37 € -> 0,72 €/kWh

Jaa, sehr gutes preis :devilish:
 
Selling to the grid has no future for microgenerstion today it’s really simply a hidden Gov subsidy it needs to end.
In the Dutch (EU) we have an emerging form of contract hourly rate based on day-ahead market (Entso-e /Nordpool), where pre-eminently a hybrid inverter is suitable for if you can control your use and as temporary storage of PV generation for own later use or feed-in at a later time at the market price of that hour of your stored PV generation or which you charged earlier at cheap hourly rate (shifting).
And that is aside traditional variable (1-6 months fixed rate) and we have still 100% grid metering until 2025, which is grid-tie domain because they are cheaper than hybrid (current prices range from €0,55-€1.36/kWh depending on energy supplier is if you use more then your PV generation on year base)
My energy supplier charges a fee of 0.2ct EUR on every kWh I buy or sell on base of day-ahead market price (tax is only on what you buy more than you sell sofar).
 
The price was about 0,37 €/kWh for 2021.

Now I made a price calculation for a yearly 5.000 kWh in different cities in Germany (2023 prices).
Berlin : 2.583,30 € -> 0,52 €/kWh
Hamburg: 2.619,30 € -> 0,52 €/kWh
Frankfurt: 3.538,49 € -> 0,71 €/kWh
München: 3.592,37 € -> 0,72 €/kWh

Jaa, sehr gutes preis :devilish:
That’s not taxation
 
In the Dutch (EU) we have an emerging form of contract hourly rate based on day-ahead market (Entso-e /Nordpool), where pre-eminently a hybrid inverter is suitable for if you can control your use and as temporary storage of PV generation for own later use or feed-in at a later time at the market price of that hour of your stored PV generation or which you charged earlier at cheap hourly rate (shifting).
And that is aside traditional variable (1-6 months fixed rate) and we have still 100% grid metering until 2025, which is grid-tie domain because they are cheaper than hybrid (current prices range from €0,55-€1.36/kWh depending on energy supplier is if you use more then your PV generation on year base)
My energy supplier charges a fee of 0.2ct EUR on every kWh I buy or sell on base of day-ahead market price (tax is only on what you buy more than you sell sofar).

Here in Hungary we have a balance tariff.
And it is a yearly balance.
So what you sell on summer you can consume on winter.
If you overproduce and the sell-buy is positive then you got almost nothing for that.
But who cares if you can heat the house in winter from the summer PV generation.
 
Here in Hungary we have a balance tariff.
And it is a yearly balance.
So what you sell on summer you can consume on winter.
If you overproduce and the sell-buy is positive then you got almost nothing for that.
But who cares if you can heat the house in winter from the summer PV generation.
That is our traditional net-metering, good for grid-tie inverters, you pay nothing if you sell the same as buy on year base,
But what you produce more, depends on your energy supplier and can change every moment with 30day announcement as since March 2022 almost no energy supplier offer any contract for 1 year or more fix prices for both. There where even a few which started with an own interpretation of net-metering with the result that the law will be fixed with a more explicit description until the net-metering phase out in 2025 to 2030 in steps
For that what you PV generate more, can be then be the same price as you pay for buy (without taxes) or €0,05-0,10/kWh which is now 2/3 of the energy suppliers there are only a few left which pay >40% or more of the buy price (excl tax), which can change each month to the low few cents
 
That is our traditional net-metering, good for grid-tie inverters, you pay nothing if you sell the same as buy on year base,
But what you produce more, depends on your energy supplier and can change every moment with 30day announcement as since March 2022 almost no energy supplier offer any contract for 1 year or more fix prices for both. There where even a few which started with an own interpretation of net-metering with the result that the law will be fixed with a more explicit description until the net-metering phase out in 2025 to 2030 in steps
For that what you PV generate more, can be then be the same price as you pay for buy (without taxes) or €0,05-0,10/kWh which is now 2/3 of the energy suppliers there are only a few left which pay >40% or more of the buy price (excl tax), which can change each month to the low few cents
exactly..

add to that , that our biggest energy companies now charge 0,95 euro/kwh, while they are paying 0,10 on the spot market..

hopefully this makes sense of my statement, tired of getting screwed
 
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exactly..

add to that , that our biggest energy companies now charge 0,95 euro/kwh, while they are paying 0,10 on the spot market..

hopefully this makes sense of my statement, tired of getting screwed

You have a 1:9 sell/buy ratio ?
Where? Residential or industrial tariff ?
Horrible :eek: The almost 1 EURO price too.

The 1:6 ratio in Germany is bad enough.
But this ... really makes no sense to sell anything to the grid.
And the utility company sells it to your neighbour with 9x profit.
 
You have a 1:9 sell/buy ratio ?
Where? Residential or industrial tariff ?
Horrible :eek: The almost 1 EURO price too.

The 1:6 ratio in Germany is bad enough.
But this ... really makes no sense to sell anything to the grid.
And the utility company sells it to your neighbour with 9x profit.
lol, spot pricing is what the energy companies buy the kwh's.
selling to the grid goes for 0,05 c/kwh...
and what worse the gov wants to limit pricing here to 42 c/kwh, and pay the remainder to the energy companies, so we getting double screwed, because we will need tax increase to make the energy companies rich


so yeah we are get screwed
 
lol, spot pricing is what the energy companies buy the kwh's.
selling to the grid goes for 0,05 c/kwh...
and what worse the gov wants to limit pricing here to 42 c/kwh, and pay the remainder to the energy companies, so we getting double screwed, because we will need tax increase to make the energy companies rich


so yeah we are get screwed

Worst than horrible ?
Which country is this ?

It makes no sense to sell a Wh with these conditions.
 
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