Newer models of EG4 6500ex are built without the bonding screw

[vladkgb]

Hey all,

I recently got my two 6500ex's from signature solar, the build date on them is 10/2022. I assumed the bonding screws were in place from reading this forum and contacted signature solar for permission to remove them, they gave me permission, and I went ahead and opened them up, and the bonding screws were not there! I wish I knew about this before so I didn't have to open the case.

This is great and how it should be shipped, thank you EG4!

 

[PreppenWolf]

Oh this is very interesting.

 

[timselectric]

Has signature solar confirmed this?
If not, I would verify it myself with a meter.

 

[FilterGuy]

Hey all,

I recently got my two 6500ex's from signature solar, the build date on them is 10/2022. I assumed the bonding screws were in place from reading this forum and contacted signature solar for permission to remove them, they gave me permission, and I went ahead and opened them up, and the bonding screws were not there! I wish I knew about this before so I didn't have to open the case.

This is great and how it should be shipped, thank you EG4!

That is fantastic for every place except where it is very dangerous!!

There are many configurations where the screw is needed. In fact, in most cases where there is only one inverter, the bonding screw should be in place. (Or the system should be set up with a common ground)

 

[Bud Martin]

They need to put insulator between that metal stanoff and the PCB which has trace on the bottom side of the PCB, right now they are relying on that the PCB will not flex and make contact,.
They had this problem Growatt 5000ES so they lay out the PCB to insure that contact cannot be made, i thought they know better by now about this issue.
Per SS:
UPDATED:

Issue #1: neutral-ground bonding, we have had these units ship under the American version, The PCB is not the same, some others here show removing the screw bond, but then find that the board still has a conductor trace that leaks to ground. This is why you need to buy these from an authorized American distributor, as listed on growatt-america.com

Safe Grid Use of the 5000ES and transformer

UPDATED: Issue #1: neutral-ground bonding, we have had these units ship under the American version, The PCB is not the same, some others here show removing the screw bond, but then find that the board still has a conductor trace that leaks to ground. This is why you need to buy these from an...

diysolarforum.com

Safety hazard w/ Growatt 5000ES (European version) when connected to American grid

I don't find the GroWatt name on the ca.gov site, but I do find "GoodWe Technologies Co., Ltd. GW5000A-ES [240V]" That's because you didn't look far enough. :) Look for " Shenzhen Growatt New Energy Technology Co., Ltd " On the GroWatt site (.pdf) you linked I find "MIN5000TL-XH-US"...

diysolarforum.com

 

[timselectric]

They need to put insulator between that metal stanoff and the PCB which has trace on the bottom side of the PCB, right now they are relying on that the PCB will not flex and make contact,.
They had this problem Growatt 5000ES so they lay out the PCB to insure that contact cannot be made, i thought they know better by now about this issue.

Safe Grid Use of the 5000ES and transformer

UPDATED: Issue #1: neutral-ground bonding, we have had these units ship under the American version, The PCB is not the same, some others here show removing the screw bond, but then find that the board still has a conductor trace that leaks to ground. This is why you need to buy these from an...

diysolarforum.com

Safety hazard w/ Growatt 5000ES (European version) when connected to American grid

I don't find the GroWatt name on the ca.gov site, but I do find "GoodWe Technologies Co., Ltd. GW5000A-ES [240V]" That's because you didn't look far enough. :) Look for " Shenzhen Growatt New Energy Technology Co., Ltd " On the GroWatt site (.pdf) you linked I find "MIN5000TL-XH-US"...

diysolarforum.com

Not sure about the EG4's. But the Growatt SPF-5000-ES has no trace on the back of the board. All that is required is to remove the screw.

 

[Bud Martin]

Not sure about the EG4's. But the Growatt SPF-5000-ES has no trace on the back of the board. All that is required is to remove the screw.

Growatt does have trace on the bottom side of the board, that is why SS had new board layout to take care of the issue. if you look at OP pictures, you can see VIAS on the PCB, also how the leg of the Y safety caps are soldered to the board.
Is SS selling these EG4 unit?

 

[vladkgb]

Has signature solar confirmed this?
If not, I would verify it myself with a meter.

I emailed signature solar asking permission to remove the screws that I assumed were there, and they replied with instructions and permission to do so. Seems like they're unaware of this.

I will verify tomorrow with the meter.

That is fantastic for every place except where it is very dangerous!!

There are many configurations where the screw is needed. In fact, in most cases where there is only one inverter, the bonding screw should be in place. (Or the system should be set up with a common ground)

Initially I'm going to be running the two in split phase to a load center which will have the ground neutral bond. Soon, I'm going to remove the bonding screw in the load center and connect from the load center out to a reliance xfer switch which will share neutral and ground with the main panel where the only NG bond will be.

I read a lot of your posts and used your drawings for ideas, thank you!

 

[timselectric]

Growatt does have trace on the bottom side of the board, that is why SS had new board layout to take care of the issue. if you look at OP pictures, you can see VIAS on the PCB.
Is SS selling these EG4 unit?
View attachment 129516

I don't know what that picture you have is from. But it's not the bonding screw location of the Growatt SPF-5000-ES.
This is a picture I took of my Growatt SPF-5000-ES bonding screw location. From the back of the board.

 

[Bud Martin]

My pictures is the 5000ES, the one you show is the new board layout that SS have it done to take care of the issue, but the one OP is showing for the 6000ex still has trace on the bottom, I guess EG4 did not do the new board layout like SS has done.

 

[Bud Martin]

I emailed signature solar asking permission to remove the screws that I assumed were there, and they replied with instructions and permission to do so. Seems like they're unaware of this.

I will verify tomorrow with the meter.


Initially I'm going to be running the two in split phase to a load center which will have the ground neutral bond. Soon, I'm going to remove the bonding screw in the load center and connect from the load center out to a reliance xfer switch which will share neutral and ground with the main panel where the only NG bond will be.

I read a lot of your posts and used your drawings for ideas, thank you!

Put Ohm meter probe on the chassis and on the top trace where the screw is removed then put pressure on that section PCB to see if you can make the electrical contact between the PCB and the metal stand off.
As I indicate, SS knows about the issue on their Growatt 5000ES, not sure if EG knows about this or not. The way it looks right now I do not believe it will pass creepage and clearance safety test.
Per SS:
UPDATED:

Issue #1: neutral-ground bonding, we have had these units ship under the American version, The PCB is not the same, some others here show removing the screw bond, but then find that the board still has a conductor trace that leaks to ground. This is why you need to buy these from an authorized American distributor, as listed on growatt-america.com

 

[FilterGuy]

My pictures is the 5000ES, the one you show is the new board layout that SS have it done to take care of the issue, but the one OP is showing for the 6000ex still has trace on the bottom, I guess EG4 did not do the new board layout like SS has done.

Folks!!! The OP is talking about the 6500ex, not the 5000ES. That is probably why he titled the thread "Newer models of EG4 6500ex are built without the bonding screw"

It may be that the 6500 has similar trace issues, I don't know. However, let's make sure we are all talking about the same thing.

​

 

[Bud Martin]

Well, looking at the OP picture, it looks the same way as the how 5000es was built until SS fixed the issue with new board layout.

 

[timselectric]

My pictures is the 5000ES, the one you show is the new board layout that SS have it done to take care of the issue, but the one OP is showing for the 6000ex still has trace on the bottom, I guess EG4 did not do the new board layout like SS has done.

My picture is of my European version. Not Signature Solar US version.
Your picture has a lot of extra tracing. And I have no idea what it would be for.

 

[timselectric]

Folks!!! The OP is talking about the 6500ex, not the 5000ES. That is probably why he titled the thread "Newer models of EG4 6500ex are built without the bonding screw"

It may be that the 6500 has similar trace issues, I don't know. However, let's make sure we are all talking about the same thing.

​

Agreed
I was just correcting a misunderstanding.

 

[Zwy]

Hey all,

I recently got my two 6500ex's from signature solar, the build date on them is 10/2022. I assumed the bonding screws were in place from reading this forum and contacted signature solar for permission to remove them, they gave me permission, and I went ahead and opened them up, and the bonding screws were not there! I wish I knew about this before so I didn't have to open the case.

This is great and how it should be shipped, thank you EG4!

Yikes!

Lawsuit quite possible if product was shipped without noting this in documentation.

 

[Bud Martin]

The 6500ex is 120Vac unit for USA, so what is the reason for removing the ground screw in that location and it is TuV certified?
I wonder if the screw is removed after the certificate is issued, the Ground symbol is clearly printed on that location. if the person trying to troubleshoot unit, he/she may think that it is missing the Ground screw in that location and nothing is mention in the user manual.

https://signaturesolar.com/content/documents/EG4/6500ex/EG4_6.5_manual_revision2.pdf

 

[FilterGuy]

The 6500ex is 120Vac unit for USA, so what is the reason for removing the ground screw in that location and it is TuV certified?

https://signaturesolar.com/content/documents/EG4/6500ex/EG4_6.5_manual_revision2.pdf

If the system has more than one inverter or if the system is wired in a common neutral configuration, there will be multiple Neutral-Ground bonds if the appropriate bonding screws are not removed.

 

[Bud Martin]

If the system has more than one inverter or if the system is wired in a common neutral configuration, there will be multiple Neutral-Ground bonds if the appropriate bonding screws are not removed.

So is it done after the TuV certificate was issued? How about if it is not multiple unit setup why remove it then? How can it passes EMI test without that screw in place?
I wonder, I had worked with UL, TuV, Intertek ETL to get products to pass compliance test, if I remove/change critical component I will be in big trouble when inspector shows up and take the unit from stock for surprised inspection.

 

[FilterGuy]

How about if it is not multiple unit setup why remove it then?

If it is a single unit and not wired with a common neutral, the internal bonding of the inverter must be left in place.

How can it passes EMI test without that screw in place?

Depending on the setup, the internal bonding could easily make EMI worse because of the loops in can create.

I wonder, I had worked with UL, TuV, Intertek ETL to get products to pass compliance test, if I remove/change critical component I will be in big trouble when inspector shows up and take the unit from stock for surprised inspection.

You are touching on the major concern I have with these Value-Priced inverters. If the system requires stacked units or a common neutral, the user must make a Sophi's choice between multiple untenable options.