NEWS: Florida legislature considers ending solar net metering (Nov.23.2021)

[robby]

"During the War, Americans purchased approximately $186 billion worth of war bonds, accounting for nearly three quarters of total federal spending from 1941-1945".


It took 2 seconds for the truth.

And it took 2 seconds to show that your wrong.
The US spend 342 billion on WWII. So at the end of WWII War Bonds accounted for 41% of the funding used (assuming your 186m figure is right). Anyway the percentage does not matter. You jump to an assumption that this was just free donated money. The Bonds were paid back 10 years after the war with Interest. Or the owner could keep them longer to gain further annual Interest. The Federal Government Paid the entire bill for the war and only used the bonds as a short term public loan. Something which was not new since they had also done this in WW1.

 

[Tony Scott]

And it took 2 seconds to show that your wrong.
The US spend 342 billion on WWII. So at the end of WWII War Bonds accounted for 41% of the funding used, but you once again jump to an assumption that this was just donated money. The Bonds were paid back 10 years after the war with Interest. Or the owner could keep them longer to gain further annual Interest. The Federal Government Paid the entire bill for the war and only used the bonds as a short term public loan. Something which was not new since they had also done this in WW1.

References please, that is what I gave you

 

[robby]

References please, that is what I gave you

Really!! What references did you give me?
I mean since you find all this stuff in 2 seconds why would you need a reference?

Anyway here is one: History and Heritage Site
Here is Another: Investopedia

 

[justgary]

Wow, I thought I was reading about net metering in Florida....

My neighbors in the panhandle just had 10kw solar plus 20kwh storage installed. The electric co-op apparently charges about $.12 per kWh used, and about $.04 per kWh that they buy. I have no idea how much they paid for the system, but I doubt it can really pay for itself, especially if net metering is revoked.

By the way, each of their 30 panels directly makes about 1.5 amps of 240vac using Enphase micro inverters. It's a neat system.

 

[Tony Scott]

Wow, I thought I was reading about net metering in Florida....

My neighbors in the panhandle just had 10kw solar plus 20kwh storage installed. The electric co-op apparently charges about $.12 per kWh used, and about $.04 per kWh that they buy. I have no idea how much they paid for the system, but I doubt it can really pay for itself, especially if net metering is revoked.

By the way, each of their 30 panels directly makes about 1.5 amps of 240vac using Enphase micro inverters. It's a neat system.

You were, people just want.to get off track. I went to solar for stability and do not intend to do net metering. None of those gimmicks are long term. People need to remember that contract are with the electric company not the state. The state can change rules, shorten and void contracts, which is what is happening now. California is pushing a bill that would charge solar arrays $8 for each KW in size

 

[svetz]

SB1024 Passed in the senate "rules" yesterday: 3/1/2022 Senate • CS/CS/CS by- Rules; YEAS 12 NAYS 4
HB741 had gotten some sweetners (e.g., grandfathering only lasts to 6% rather than a decade, they say that's large, but it ignores the Feds mandate we'll be 100% within 30 years).

 

[houseofancients]

lol - sponsored by FPL

but in seriousness... pretty sad actually

 

[Johnson]

California is pushing a bill that would charge solar arrays $8 for each KW in size

That is about a week and a half worth of electricity based on 4 hours of full sun each day. That is crazy.

Eventually the utility companies will start raising prices on grid connections, regardless if you have solar or not. A better option is that they charge you a flat rate for the connection to the grid, charge and pay you the spot rate for any electricity you take from or deliver to the grid at any period of time.

 

[svetz]

HB 741 was passed ref

The rate paid by utilities to rooftop solar owners for excess electricity sent back to the grid is set to be phased down to a fraction of its original rate. It also opens the door for unlimited fixed fees to be levied on solar customers.

In a hard blow to the budding solar rooftop industry in Florida, the state legislature passed House Bill 741, which phases down the value of net metering, and opens the door for utilities to add fixed charges to solar customer bills. Advocacy organizations FLASEIA, Vote Solar, and environmental groups in the state said they will now call on Governor Ron Desantis to veto the bill.

 

[svetz]

84% of Florida voters support solar net metering, but Gov. DeSantis will gut it anyway

The supporters of the bill argue that net metering causes non-solar customers to subsidize the solar customers. But here’s the catch: There’s no evidence that such a subsidy exists or is burdening non-solar customers.

... this horrible bill is a real tragedy for a state that has an abundance of sunshine, and is guaranteed to suffer from sea-level rise due to climate change. This bill is not only masochistic, it’s suicidal.

This is a simple choice between helping monopolies or helping the people.

 

[svetz]

ref
The bill from the start was driven by unvetted and incomplete information fed to legislators by FPL and other monopoly utilities. The utility argument was that net metering creates a “cost” on non-solar customers because it allows them to lower their bills, and that utility revenue loss has to be made up by other customers. Yet, the state agency charged with regulating the state’s largest power companies, the Public Service Commission (PSC), has never made a determination of the costs and benefits of rooftop solar on any utility’s system in Florida. That didn’t matter to the sponsors of the bill, who conceded there was no study performed to verify the utility claims and that any cost or subsidy was almost non-measurable at the current low level of rooftop solar penetration in Florida.

It begs the question if solar customers are paying their fair share, why are monopoly utilities going after them again? That so many people were against this, that there was no evidence that it was harmful, that there was evidence it was beneficial, makes me wonder what the Floridian legislators were thinking when they passed it, how it even got through the rules committees? I can see this getting challenged in the courts.

No "grandfathered for a decade" in the final bill and even worse the 2029 provision can be triggered early,

 

[svetz]

It's not just thousands of lost solar jobs either, a lot of small businesses' margins are tied to it. Thousands of installers will go out of business, distributors will dry out. This will make it harder for new installs or to get service on existing systems. Floridians with solar really got the shaft.

ref:

Even in today’s world of big box retailers, I’m proud that our 112-year-old family business, Bailey’s General Store, is still thriving as a cornerstone of the communities of Sanibel and Captiva. One of the reasons we’ve survived is our rooftop solar panels...The electric bill for my small business used to be up to $25,000 per month. Since we put ourselves on a “kilowatt diet”, that bill has shrunk to about $8,000. But, thanks to legislation recklessly passed in the Florida legislature...

Living in one of the sunniest, most beautiful parts of the country, I can’t conceive an ethical reason state legislators would support HB 741, effectively killing the rooftop solar industry. For me, solar panels have been the best kept business secret available, a resource for self-sufficiency that utilities didn’t want anyone to know about.

 

[svetz]

So, who voted this so you can let them know in the next election?

House: https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2022/741/Vote/HouseVote_h00741e1655.PDF
Senate: https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2022/741/Vote/SenateVote_h00741e1004.PDF

Find your representatives: https://www.myfloridahouse.gov/findyourrepresentative

 

[svetz]

I was just looking into G. Newsom's proposed legislation for California. Not sure if it's harbinger for Florida or not since we already have connection fees.

From what I can tell about it, it adds a straight fee of $8/kW of array (e.g., a 7kW array would increase your monthly bill by $56). It has nothing to do with how much you use, it's an infrastructure cost. NEM 1 was great to get the industry going, NEM 2 made economic sense given the lack of energy storage in the utility and it encouraged people to get batteries.

 

[Johnson]

it adds a straight fee of $8/kW of array

That seems insane. (When something seems insane, it is usually not true, but this is the US...) If they want to encourage people to add storage, it would be simpler to pay the market value for the electricity delivered back to the grid. People who do opt for storage can even decide to deliver back to the grid when they think it is worthwhile.

 

[Hedges]

PG&E asked for more, but it got watered down before being finalized. I think $12/kW was requested, but what was adopted was $8/kW (that works out to about $0.05 per kWh the array produces.)
Also, credit for export to grid is 25% of retail. Retail prior to 3:00 PM is about $0.20/kWh, so the credit is $0.05 per kWh.

That's right, people with rooftop PV will get a big fat ZERO for all power exported to the grid. And they will be charged $0.05/kWh for what they use produce and use themselves.

Also, already new construction is required to put PV on the rooftop, which would now mean any power not used (in the middle of the day, while away at work) would be given to PG&E for free.

Governor Newsom then said NEM 3.0 needed work, so it is on hold. We don't know what the terms will be. But we do know the PUC is in the pocket of the "Utilities" and isn't looking out for the best interest of the "Public"

Storage? Only for the power we generate ourselves. We are prohibited from storing grid power in our batteries when PV production is excess, and exporting again when demand is high.

 

[houseofancients]

I was just looking into G. Newsom's proposed legislation for California. Not sure if it's harbinger for Florida or not since we already have connection fees.

From what I can tell about it, it adds a straight fee of $8/kW of array (e.g., a 7kW array would increase your bill by $56). It has nothing to do with how much you use, it's an infrastructure cost. NEM 1 was great to get the industry going, NEM 2 made economic sense given the lack of energy storage in the utility and it encouraged people to get batteries.

seema to me the choice for offgrid or grid assisted just became very easy

 

[svetz]

GOV. DESANTIS VETOES HB741

Whew! https://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article260817977.html

 

[robby]

I watched this video the other night and I said to myself I need to my Car off their Stupid Road.
I think this is where it is headed in the long run.

 

[robby]

I was just looking into G. Newsom's proposed legislation for California. Not sure if it's harbinger for Florida or not since we already have connection fees.

From what I can tell about it, it adds a straight fee of $8/kW of array (e.g., a 7kW array would increase your monthly bill by $56). It has nothing to do with how much you use, it's an infrastructure cost. NEM 1 was great to get the industry going, NEM 2 made economic sense given the lack of energy storage in the utility and it encouraged people to get batteries.

This only encourages you to get batteries if you can get enough of them to power your house through the night and have enough spare energy to compensate for a few days of bad weather. The big negative is that if you don't have the cash for the whole package then it makes no sense to even try.