I thought one of the perks of KNiFe cells were the repair ability of them... can’t they be easily rebuilt?
Nickel Iron Batteries
- Thread starter mrevesz
- Start date
Hi,
The cases are plastic: ABS or PP. It is possible to dismantle them, on purpose, or by accident
(see below). The plates are welded, I have seen someone on Youtube repair one. Edison's original cells were bolted together, and in metal cases.
I'm in contact with the seller, I would think he wants them so he can return them to the supplier, or manufacturer. But he only mentioned that he wanted compensation from them. I sent him photos. Return to China would be expensive. He did offer to buy some from another supplier, and send them to me, but I've told him that I want to return them for a full refund. If he doesn't want them, I'll be able to sell them. Watch this space! There are only 39 cells intact.
Hydrogen go bang!
Still, it does show what the debris looks like!
dRdoS7
The cases are plastic: ABS or PP. It is possible to dismantle them, on purpose, or by accident
(see below). The plates are welded, I have seen someone on Youtube repair one. Edison's original cells were bolted together, and in metal cases.I'm in contact with the seller, I would think he wants them so he can return them to the supplier, or manufacturer. But he only mentioned that he wanted compensation from them. I sent him photos. Return to China would be expensive. He did offer to buy some from another supplier, and send them to me, but I've told him that I want to return them for a full refund. If he doesn't want them, I'll be able to sell them. Watch this space! There are only 39 cells intact.
Hydrogen go bang!
Still, it does show what the debris looks like!
dRdoS7
Attachments
You definitely aren’t alone with the short lifespan of the cells due to the dreaded black muck.. Possibly the only one that has so publicly shared their experience.
It’s unfortunate that so many people that buy NiFe spend a lot of time online before their cells arrive saying how great they will be and how dumb everyone else is for not seeing it.
Generally don’t hear from them for long once their batteries are operating.
It’s unfortunate that so many people that buy NiFe spend a lot of time online before their cells arrive saying how great they will be and how dumb everyone else is for not seeing it.
Generally don’t hear from them for long once their batteries are operating.
Hi,
Do you have any links? When mine started failing, I did a lot of Googling, and found nothing.
dRdoS7
Do you have any links? When mine started failing, I did a lot of Googling, and found nothing.
dRdoS7
Little competition in the manufacturing of such cells. Huge problem. How good would lithium batteries be if we only had a couple small manufacturers? I still consider it a tragedy of sorts.
Make your own? How do you nickel plate the iron?
I looked at it and could not rationalize the investment. Right now there are great buys in lithium batteries.
Make your own? How do you nickel plate the iron?
I looked at it and could not rationalize the investment. Right now there are great buys in lithium batteries.
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I personally know the owners. Around 10 years ago when i was researching my off grid system i got in touch with a lot of others on the same situation.
A few of them chose NiFe (i almost went there too). None of them are still using Nife, and since then i have also been in contact with others who have had failed batteries.
I try to keep in contact with people that i have helped set-up their offgrid systems. The only way to see what really works is to monitor the systems over many years.
Forums are great, but the vast majority of people don’t post in forums.
A few of them chose NiFe (i almost went there too). None of them are still using Nife, and since then i have also been in contact with others who have had failed batteries.
I try to keep in contact with people that i have helped set-up their offgrid systems. The only way to see what really works is to monitor the systems over many years.
Forums are great, but the vast majority of people don’t post in forums.
I am new to this site, enjoying the thread.
I have just assembled an off grid system using 500ah 48v NiFe batteries. From reading the posts so far, the one theme I have heard is that NiFe batteries are expensive. I bought mine directly from CIYI battery company in China I found them to be easy to deal with and decent customer service.
Even with the import agent fees and the additional $2,000 tariff on goods from China (imposed two years ago) I was able to purchase these batteries for approximately %60 of what the retail price charged by the only US distributor for this chemistry battery I could find (their batteries are also manufactured in China.
I could be mistaken, but since Excide stopped making NiFe batteries in New Jersey a coup[le of decades ago, there are no US manufacturers.
I am a newbie to this system, I will attempt to share as time goes by.
I have just assembled an off grid system using 500ah 48v NiFe batteries. From reading the posts so far, the one theme I have heard is that NiFe batteries are expensive. I bought mine directly from CIYI battery company in China I found them to be easy to deal with and decent customer service.
Even with the import agent fees and the additional $2,000 tariff on goods from China (imposed two years ago) I was able to purchase these batteries for approximately %60 of what the retail price charged by the only US distributor for this chemistry battery I could find (their batteries are also manufactured in China.
I could be mistaken, but since Excide stopped making NiFe batteries in New Jersey a coup[le of decades ago, there are no US manufacturers.
I am a newbie to this system, I will attempt to share as time goes by.
When I've researched manufacturers of NiFe batteries I did find two in China and one in the US.
The CIYI Battery Company is also the one I've got mine from. They appear to have all the certification and in-house testing done and provide good customer care. Also I understand they supply the Chinese Navy with all their batteries.
In regards to experience: As mentioned in an earlier post the issue is with the voltage drop. I do not intentionally use just 20% of capacity but system will shut down if voltage drops below 20Volt. (24V system). However, if the batteries had a good charge recently (equalization charge) I can draw the batteries down to a lower level before the voltage drops below 20V. I think the lowest I managed was about 45% of capacity.
The catch is the batteries respond well to a good discharge here and there which seems to refresh them in conjunction of a good charge straight after. But in the real world this is difficult as system keeps shutting down before such low level can be achieved.
It's been now over 4 years and so far so good.
One annoying thing was the fact that I wanted to install a battery watering system but found no manufacturer of such system making a suitable valve system to suit. ....Ended up making my own in combination of commercial watering valves.
But to this day I'm getting surprised by those batteries as just last week system shut down at just 85% capacity due to low voltage. Yet about a month ago we had a few rainy days and system kept going and going for 3 days and down to about 55% before system shut down. Didn't expect to last that long given the small size / capacity ( 600Ah).
The CIYI Battery Company is also the one I've got mine from. They appear to have all the certification and in-house testing done and provide good customer care. Also I understand they supply the Chinese Navy with all their batteries.
In regards to experience: As mentioned in an earlier post the issue is with the voltage drop. I do not intentionally use just 20% of capacity but system will shut down if voltage drops below 20Volt. (24V system). However, if the batteries had a good charge recently (equalization charge) I can draw the batteries down to a lower level before the voltage drops below 20V. I think the lowest I managed was about 45% of capacity.
The catch is the batteries respond well to a good discharge here and there which seems to refresh them in conjunction of a good charge straight after. But in the real world this is difficult as system keeps shutting down before such low level can be achieved.
It's been now over 4 years and so far so good.
One annoying thing was the fact that I wanted to install a battery watering system but found no manufacturer of such system making a suitable valve system to suit. ....Ended up making my own in combination of commercial watering valves.
But to this day I'm getting surprised by those batteries as just last week system shut down at just 85% capacity due to low voltage. Yet about a month ago we had a few rainy days and system kept going and going for 3 days and down to about 55% before system shut down. Didn't expect to last that long given the small size / capacity ( 600Ah).
ADS in the Ukraine also make them.
And if you are handy with tools.
electrosparkles.com
EDISON NICKEL IRON (Ni-Fe) BATTERY: HOMEMADE CONSTRUCTION. - Let There Be Light
I did it my way… Edison nickel iron (Ni-Fe) battery cell – homemade construction… A labour of love By Dorian Stonehouse THERE is nothing quite like it: to see the fruits of one’s labour ripening – construction taking shape. So here is a homemade Edison Nickel Iron battery under construction –...
electrosparkles.com
Q-Dog
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Nickel Iron may still have a future. These researchers are trying to turn the hydrogen off gassing problem into a benefit.
www.bbc.com
The battery invented 120 years before its time
At the turn of the 20th Century, Thomas Edison invented a battery with the unusual quirk of producing hydrogen. Now, 120 years later, the battery is coming into its own.
www.bbc.com
Hi,
One thing I didn't see mentioned was making distilled water. Lots of it. Also, refilling/topping up between cycles.
I saw >80% efficency, but only when charging to a lowish voltage, not when charging to a voltage which creates lots of hydrogen. Efficiency dropped to about 50%.
I guess the point is that it can do 2 jobs at once. The spent electrolyte (diluted) can be used as fertiliser.
dRdoS7
Nickel Iron may still have a future. These researchers are trying to turn the hydrogen off gassing problem into a benefit.
The battery invented 120 years before its time
At the turn of the 20th Century, Thomas Edison invented a battery with the unusual quirk of producing hydrogen. Now, 120 years later, the battery is coming into its own.
One thing I didn't see mentioned was making distilled water. Lots of it. Also, refilling/topping up between cycles.
I saw >80% efficency, but only when charging to a lowish voltage, not when charging to a voltage which creates lots of hydrogen. Efficiency dropped to about 50%.
I guess the point is that it can do 2 jobs at once. The spent electrolyte (diluted) can be used as fertiliser.
dRdoS7
I am going to give a 24 volt 250 amp hour set a try. I bought them used for .30 cents on the dollar with enough material for 2 electrolyte swaps. I have always been interested in them and for this price I thought why not. They have almost 9 years of service on them and will probably need an electrolyte replacement in a year or so.
Ceefiveceefive
New Member
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2019
- Messages
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Have there been any updates as to how the Nickel Iron batteries have been doing?
I'm afraid a great disappointment is the best way to describe it.
More info here:
More info here:
My wife and I are building our retirement home in Maine and opted for "off grid" considering the federal tax rebate, the cost of connecting to commercial power and the bills going ahead.
When I looked at the different battery chemistries, I decided that either flow batteries or NiFe would be the direction that made the most sense to me.
The designer/salesman I dealt with did a wonderful job designing a system which he felt would serve our needs. He suggested a 7.6Kw solar array and a 400ah lithium ion 48V battery. I was told to expect a 7-to-9-year service life for the battery at a cost of $17,000. Best case, a couple of thousand dollars a year for power storage. I found that unacceptable.
I modified the system to a 10.4 Kw array with a 500ah 48V NiFe battery system. I liked the concept of the flow batteries, but at the time (three years ago) I could not find a vendor who would sell the product I was looking for into the US.
When I went looking for NiFe batteries, I found CIYI battery in China. From my "research" there are no longer any manufacturers of NiFe batteries in North America. There are a couple of companies selling NiFe batteries in the US, but they are buying them from China with a substantial mark-up.
These batteries are large and heavy (3,800# filled) and require watering with demineralized water (shopping for a batery watering system now), but even with the tariff imposed by the former resident of the White House (cost me an extra $2,000) I was able to acquire my batteries for around $13,000 including shipping, tariff and import agent fees. For the same batteries a distributor in Colorado wanted $22,000.
So far, I am really pleased with my decision. The batteries arrived already filled with electrolyte.
The fact that these batteries will outlast me is a major plus to me.
When I looked at the different battery chemistries, I decided that either flow batteries or NiFe would be the direction that made the most sense to me.
The designer/salesman I dealt with did a wonderful job designing a system which he felt would serve our needs. He suggested a 7.6Kw solar array and a 400ah lithium ion 48V battery. I was told to expect a 7-to-9-year service life for the battery at a cost of $17,000. Best case, a couple of thousand dollars a year for power storage. I found that unacceptable.
I modified the system to a 10.4 Kw array with a 500ah 48V NiFe battery system. I liked the concept of the flow batteries, but at the time (three years ago) I could not find a vendor who would sell the product I was looking for into the US.
When I went looking for NiFe batteries, I found CIYI battery in China. From my "research" there are no longer any manufacturers of NiFe batteries in North America. There are a couple of companies selling NiFe batteries in the US, but they are buying them from China with a substantial mark-up.
These batteries are large and heavy (3,800# filled) and require watering with demineralized water (shopping for a batery watering system now), but even with the tariff imposed by the former resident of the White House (cost me an extra $2,000) I was able to acquire my batteries for around $13,000 including shipping, tariff and import agent fees. For the same batteries a distributor in Colorado wanted $22,000.
So far, I am really pleased with my decision. The batteries arrived already filled with electrolyte.
The fact that these batteries will outlast me is a major plus to me.
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