Noodling out my new sheds, could use input on which way to go

[Rednecktek]

So I'm getting new sheds for the garden and storage at home since one of them is cheap plastic and the other is coming down on its own. I need to have lights, a battery tender for the lawnmower, and the occasional thing I might want to plug in (like power tool chargers and speakers and such) so doing a power audit is really, really difficult. The lights in one shed might get used for a half hour every few months, the garden shed less often, and so on.

So, what I HAVE decided on so far is:

1: I'll be going 24v
2: I want ~2Kw+ of inverter capability (hence the 24v)
3: I will have separate circuits for each shed's lights and outlets (because nothing frustrates like trying to install a light fixture and not being able to plug in a lamp! Grrr!)
4: Due to environmental (as in the cold and neglect, not the hippies. ) concerns I'll be using FLA batteries from WalMart. LFP is a no-go.
5: I'm on a budget of about $2000 and still need wire.
6: Used panels on CL are about $3-5/watt (it sucks in my area) and the shipping on used panels from elsewhere is $300+ $n/Panel, and I really don't want cracked/snail-trail/faded/really-beat-up panels if I can avoid them. Used in good condition would be OK but I'm seeing a serious lack of availability.

Common Parts either way I go are:
2x WalllyWorld 29DC 122Ah FLA batteries $200
Siemens 125a Load Panel $30
2x 15a breakers $12
2x 20a breakers $13
200a DC breaker to inverter $31
150a ANL fuse for the battery $16
4x Newpowa 210w Solar Panels in 2s2p for 840w $840
OR
4x Canadian Solar 310w Used Panels $820

Total So Far: ~$1150

Option 1 - The Component Route: $500
EPEver 40a SCC Tracer 4210AN $130
Giandel 2000w 24v Pure Sine Inverter $370

Pro's: Cheaper, easier to replace individual components
Con's: Less expandability on solar panels, lower total capacity for AC power

Option 2 - The AIO Route: $650
MPP 2424 AIO unit $650

Pro's: Simpler to setup, less wiring, higher capacity for panels and load
Con's: Extra $150, higher standby draw, single point of failure

Option 3 - The In The Middle: $560
EPEver Tracer AN 60a SCC $240
WZRELB 2500w 24v Pure Sine Inverter $320

Pro's: More capacity on inverter, more capacity for panels
Con's: Multiple points of failure, not sure about WZRELB seems pretty hit-or-miss


Thoughts? Ideas? Am I missing something?

 

[Bobert]

FYI I used Deep cycle Walmart batteries with a 48v AIO I setup last year. They worked ok in the early fall but mid fall their cool weather performance ( low 20s Fahrenheit) was very poor. I was a bit disappointed with them even though I really had low expectations to start with. I am told Cosco sells better batteries a a similar price point. It might be worth investigating if cold weather performance is in the picture.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

i walked down a 48 VDC 600 ah pack over three years to their death. if your panels cannot give enough charge to absorb for two or three hours they will die. that's the one advantage of lithium's I love, you can charge the snot out of them over a couple of hours and be truly fully charged... Lead acid of any variety needs time on absorb that you may or may not have enough panels to provide.

 

[Rednecktek]

i walked down a 48 VDC 600 ah pack over three years to their death. if your panels cannot give enough charge to absorb for two or three hours they will die. that's the one advantage of lithium's I love, you can charge the snot out of them over a couple of hours and be truly fully charged... Lead acid of any variety needs time on absorb that you may or may not have enough panels to provide.

LFP isn't an option unfortunately. Anything that will survive being charged below freezing (and even anything that doesn't) completely obliterates my budget. I COULD get a battery that would survive, and it would look pretty by flashlight.

I'm hoping that with the wire I'll have left over from my other projects I can squeeze enough out of the budget (and couch cushions) to get another pair of batteries.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

OP what kind of boat? an MSC chartered ship or a private ship?

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

LFP isn't an option unfortunately. Anything that will survive being charged below freezing (and even anything that doesn't) completely obliterates my budget. I COULD get a battery that would survive, and it would look pretty by flashlight.

I'm hoping that with the wire I'll have left over from my other projects I can squeeze enough out of the budget (and couch cushions) to get another pair of batteries.

you are worrying two much. I built a battery warmer that survived 1500 meter altitude weather on the base of mount fuji... it cost me about 200 USD. most of that was for the aluminum plate I used as a heat sink. trust me I was worried as snot myself but it worked, it works and it was actually easy.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

you are worrying two much. I built a battery warmer that survived 1500 meter altitude weather on the base of mount fuji... it cost me about 200 USD. most of that was for the aluminum plate I used as a heat sink. trust me I was worried as snot myself but it worked, it works and it was actually easy.

LFP isn't an option unfortunately. Anything that will survive being charged below freezing (and even anything that doesn't) completely obliterates my budget. I COULD get a battery that would survive, and it would look pretty by flashlight.

I'm hoping that with the wire I'll have left over from my other projects I can squeeze enough out of the budget (and couch cushions) to get another pair of batteries.

BTW my baatteries never saw less than 8°c or about 47°f and I could have set it higher if I wanted. power usage was negligible.

 

[Rednecktek]

OP what kind of boat? an MSC chartered ship or a private ship?

Container ship, currently waiting for a slot in Busan. Part of CMA-CGM now that they bought out our company.

BTW my baatteries never saw less than 8°c or about 47°f and I could have set it higher if I wanted. power usage was negligible.

I've got to factor in for at least a month straight of sub-freezing temperatures. Destroying $200 of WallyWorld batteries hurts a LOT less than destroying $700 of Chins every year.

That $2k budget is a pretty hard budget so spending half or more of it on a cold-survivable battery means I have to make up from somewhere.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

Container ship, currently waiting for a slot in Busan. Part of CMA-CGM now that they bought out our company.


I've got to factor in for at least a month straight of sub-freezing temperatures. Destroying $200 of WallyWorld batteries hurts a LOT less than destroying $700 of Chins every year.

That $2k budget is a pretty hard budget so spending half or more of it on a cold-survivable battery means I have to make up from somewhere.

all I can say was that from mid November to just last month mid April I had zero issues even though the temps dropped down to -10°C in the middle of winter, and are currently still dropping to 7°C nightly as we speak. So I honestly had sub zero temps from December till late March and had zero issues. I shut off my battery heater last month as it was not turning on and the 12 volt power source I was using to control the electronics for it was just a waste of time. i preferred to use it to top balance my new cells so I unhooked it and moved it over to tp balance duty. in a nutshell silicone heater pads wired in series to drop power output... a cheap temp controller to control them. a 1/4" plate of aluminum on the bottom and sides of the battery backs. and 2" blue foam surrounding the entire pack, bottom, sides, tops and ends cut for a push/slight crush fit with duct tape to seal the foam panels together to prevent heat and air leakage.

I used a total of 16 of the 25 watt pads but they were wired into 8 series on the bottom, and 4 series per side again wired in series between the three strings of heating pads. this dropped the total output to the point that I did not have to worry about over heating even with the insulation the controller was there as a safety and to save power when not needed. it cycled off and on twice a day, once around 2200 an once around 04-0500 I spent an inordinate amount of money on a temperature data logger to assure myself.

I have a 16s 3P setup so 16 in series and 3 packs. they all rest together and cover roughly a 3' by 4' space of floor on my solar power shed totally encased in blue foam. next trick is to see how hot they get in summer. I am hoping that if they never get above about 23 or 24°c that Ican just leave them covered through the summer and not need to do anything other than plugging the heater back in for the winter. and if that works, all I need left is to make 3 idiot lights to verify that the heater circuits are intact and I am done with that project.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

by the way.. Pusan AKA busan sucks... what pier? Pohang?

 

[45North]

i walked down a 48 VDC 600 ah pack over three years to their death. if your panels cannot give enough charge to absorb for two or three hours they will die. that's the one advantage of lithium's I love, you can charge the snot out of them over a couple of hours and be truly fully charged... Lead acid of any variety needs time on absorb that you may or may not have enough panels to provide.

I second that!
I too have killed a lead acid battery due to inadequate solar charging, in 1 winter.
Any chance of grid charging them or carrying them into the house if they get low?

 

[Rednecktek]

by the way.. Pusan AKA busan sucks... what pier? Pohang?

Busan Newport.

 

[Rednecktek]

I second that!
I too have killed a lead acid battery due to inadequate solar charging, in 1 winter.
Any chance of grid charging them or carrying them into the house if they get low?

Nope. If I could get grid power out there I wouldn't bother with the solar, but I'd have to 1: cut a trench through my asphalt driveway and 2: continue that trench through the water line that feeds the hillside. Not worth the effort of hand-digging where I Think that main water line Might be trying to avoid it.

The wife can't be bothered to start my truck one in a while, getting her to disconnect couple lead acid batteries on an upper shelf, carry them into the house, put them on the charger, AND put them back in place?... Not so much.

This system has to be a pretty fire-and-forget system requiring nothing more than me adding water every 6 months just to top it off.

 

[Bluedog225]

I do similar to what you are proposing (occasional use lights, battery tender, TV, radio, etc) with exclusively 12v. Single battle born and a couple of panels. Well under $2000. The wealth of recreational vehicle 12v stuff makes it possible. Not much freezing concern here. But if there were, I would go heated LFP. Most tools under the sun are available from ryobi with 12v charging of 18 volt battery packs.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

Nope. If I could get grid power out there I wouldn't bother with the solar, but I'd have to 1: cut a trench through my asphalt driveway and 2: continue that trench through the water line that feeds the hillside. Not worth the effort of hand-digging where I Think that main water line Might be trying to avoid it.

The wife can't be bothered to start my truck one in a whine, getting her to disconnect couple lead acid batteries on an upper shelf, carry them into the house, put them on the charger, AND put them back in place?... Not so much.

This system has to be a pretty fire-and-forget system requiring nothing more than me adding water every 6 months just to top it off.

not going to bother with my usual smart a$$ comments but try and convince her off the amount of perfumes and cosmetics you could buy with the money saved BTW that whole area of Korea sucks for the most part at least in the winter it does... never saw it in the warmer months.

 

[Rednecktek]

I really don't want to buy all the wire and DC switches and such to make a second power bus in 2 physical sheds for the rare 12v stuff to work, HOWEVER...

Option 4 - Wow You're a Cheapskate!

WZRELB 1500W 12V 120V Pure Sine Wave Inverter $160
PowMr 60a MPPT controller $110 (I have a couple older versions, they work OK)
3x NewPowah 210w Panels $630 (Save $210) (Shipping makes new and used the same $/watt)
0x Wally World Batteries SAVES $200

That frees up $400 for a Vatrer 100Ah LiFePO4 at $360 which says it has low temp cutoff.

Pro's: LFP battery like a REAL boy!, umm... LFP battery?
Con's: Lower capacity inverter, maxed out solar at 600w, PowMr controller, risk of destroying a $360 battery with PNW winters

 

[Rednecktek]

BTW that whole area of Korea sucks for the most part at least in the winter it does... never saw it in the warmer months.

There's a reason I call it Kold-Rea. I should NOT get a negative number on my thermal gun standing over a steam plant...

 

[Bluedog225]

Depending on how occassional use, you might be able to knock out one panel. And I did fine with 100ah (useable). 200 is luxury.

Inverters are over rated.

 

[Rednecktek]

Depending on how occassional use, you might be able to knock out one panel. And I did fine with 100ah (useable). 200 is luxury.

Inverters are over rated.

My 300w setup on the driveway lights can't produce 120Wh a day for 4+ months a year. I'm leaning quite heavily towards the 4 used panels for 1200w of solar and hoping I don't kill the batteries too badly.

 

[Bluedog225]

Yeah. I’m spoiled with solar potential.