Not sure if this will be helpful heating and insulation

[Deleted member 3614]

Off-grid living in the UK is an unusual experience. Finding water and gas is almost near impossible plus the weather can be terrible for weeks on end.

So what does this have to do with solar power? After fitting refillable gas bottles I soon found that finding a filling station who sells gas (LPG) was going to be hard, they are being removed at a shocking rate so running the heating in the winters months started to cause me a few issues.

I knew my motorhome has a two rated insulation rating with three being the highest, to keep the van at 22 degrees the gas would need to be on setting 4 and 6 being max which is would the gas within a week, so I set out to find and fix drafts and made a new bulkhead that closed off the cab area. The cost of this with insulation and wood was about £50, when looking closely at the van I found many cost-cutting measures used by the company who built the thing, so I made a few changes. Adding a door curtain instantly made a difference on its own.

What this did to the heating was interesting, I could run the gas at setting 2.5 with the weather outside at freezing cold at 22 degrees. this extended the gas bottles to almost 2 weeks which saves £8 per week.

Was so shocked when I bought a tiny halogen heater, this heater cost just £16 has 3 heat setting 400, 800 and 1200 watts, I thought would this work on a cold but sunny day and would it work on the inverter, yes it did, in testing with the solar panels tilted the amps from the panels was more than the heater on 400 watts and the temperature was just over 20, this has extended the gas bottles by around 3 hours per day, this tiny heater managed to heat a large 7.2 m motorhome.

So good insulation is a starting point which then helps gas and power use. If you try and heat something that lets in drafts, you will be wasting money and power.

 

[SCClockDr]

I'm on the other side of the pond so read with some care.
My first choice for a spare heater would be a 10,000 BTU Blue Flame unvented gas space heater. We use ours in the evenings & mornings to knock the edge off the cold. Any insulation upgrade is way more efficient than adding heating or cooling appliances. With unvented blue flame heat there is zero BTU loss. I would also recommend a quality CO alarm in the mix. We run no propane heat (furnace/space) from retiring till wakeup, just pile on blankets.

 

[Deleted member 3614]

I'm on the other side of the pond so read with some care.
My first choice for a spare heater would be a 10,000 BTU Blue Flame unvented gas space heater. We use ours in the evenings & mornings to knock the edge off the cold. Any insulation upgrade is way more efficient than adding heating or cooling appliances. With unvented blue flame heat there is zero BTU loss. I would also recommend a quality CO alarm in the mix. We run no propane heat (furnace/space) from retiring till wakeup, just pile on blankets.

Think your country gets very cold yes? we may hit on rare days and nights - 10 bu this may be a ten-year thing.

the key is insulation first otherwise you might as well throw your money down the drain. a few simple and cheap things can make a massive difference.

the van is fully kitted out with fire and gas alarms, they have to be by law in the UK.

 

[John Frum]

Cloudy-Day if you have not seen his stuff Greg Virgoe on youtube has lots of good info on heating and insulation.

 

[Deleted member 3614]

Cloudy-Day if you have not seen his stuff Greg Virgoe on youtube has lots of good info on heating and insulation.

thanks, the van is at its max tbh, only needed a few things doing, it's fixing the cost-cutting measure that was easy to do. even the handmade battery box i built is fully insulated under the van.

its trying to keep the van a functioning home and not a weekend van that's hard but after 4 months of solid work, it is almost finished. i set out to remove its holiday style feel that so many motorhomes have. and making it much tougher to withstand what i will be doing with it. while many run from mother natures power i go to it.

 

[Deleted member 3614]

Yes i have seen Greg Virgoe, it is a very different style of the van to a motorhome, we both have converted vans but different types, he's taken a basic van and i've chosen to convert a motorhome.

 

[John Frum]

Yes i have seen Greg Virgoe, it is a very different style of the van to a motorhome, we both have converted vans but different types, he's taken a basic van and i've chosen to convert a motorhome.

He uses propane, I wonder if he is feeling the pinch as well.

 

[Deleted member 3614]

He uses propane, I wonder if he is feeling the pinch as well.

What Gred? Greg even lol, if he's using refillable gas like me he would of noticed issues, shell and bp has stoped all LPG, Morisons has an outright blanket ban on the motorhome and anyone trying to fill bottles.

I use these bottles by gaslow they have a where to fill map, now I live to the east of England, it has 4 places and one was 6 miles from me to fill up with LPG, went to fill up last week only to that BP was emoving the gas tanks. so it leaves just 3 places the closed to me is a 30 mile drive. whi I put about insulation and saving gas and power.

This is the result of Calor gas, I can them the mafia and the gas world, the greed is terrible with them in the UK. Calor gas bottles cost an insane £37 for a 11kg bottle, to fill my 11 and 6 kg bottles up costs jut £18.

I think I better start eating more beans and production my own gas haha

 

[Supervstech]

Aside from moving to a more comfortable climate... there is NOTHING AT ALL that is a better investment in heating or cooling ANY space than insulating PROPERLY... air sealing, and insulation installation.

 

[Supervstech]

I'm on the other side of the pond so read with some care.
My first choice for a spare heater would be a 10,000 BTU Blue Flame unvented gas space heater. We use ours in the evenings & mornings to knock the edge off the cold. Any insulation upgrade is way more efficient than adding heating or cooling appliances. With unvented blue flame heat there is zero BTU loss. I would also recommend a quality CO alarm in the mix. We run no propane heat (furnace/space) from retiring till wakeup, just pile on blankets.

A 100% efficient gas burning appliance dumps a lot of water and CO2 into the space, and consumes oxygen. So, not a wise choice for van or rv living other than short uses...

 

[John Frum]

A 100% efficient gas burning appliance dumps a lot of water and CO2 into the space, and consumes oxygen. So, not a wise choice for van or rv living other than short uses...

Thats why I like these truma varioheat.
To be clear I have no direct experience.

 

[Deleted member 3614]

Thats why I like these truma varioheat.
To be clear I have no direct experience.

Yes my motorhome has truma gas heating with air blown and the water heater is also by truma, I think they the only company who does water and gas air blown in one, i would lie to own one but at over 2 grand i will bet sticking to my separate system.

I've always wondered why they don't combine the weather heater with a small water pump and have small radiators, the gas water heating is very defiant, unlike the gas heater.

It is all about learning new things, taking something and improving it if possible. if we all knew everything none us would be here!

 

[Steve_S]

Direct vent gas appliance (heater) is much safer, also I believe the UK, like Canada has a ban on Unvented Gas Heaters so forget the notion of unvented. I have a direct vented RV Furnace I used in my powerhouse, bought it used (out of a 3 yr old 20' wrecked RV) for $300 CAD / 228 USD / 205 Euro. Direct Vent and uses 12VDC only and very efficient.

Insulation Tip: I built my home (cabin in the bush) with 6" / 15cm thick High Density EPS-II foam between the studs and my cathedral roof has 8" of PolyISO between the rafters. To "attempt" to buy that retail would have crossed the lie of Ludicrous ! (Home Despotic for example sells 4'x8'x2" for around $30 CAD) I bought 4'x8'x4" ISO (122cm X 243cm x 10.2cm) for $7 CAD each ! which is not even available retail from a Commercial Roofing company.... now I used "Take Off" insulation which was previously installed on a commercial building but removed during a roof refit (by law it all has to be recycled). The take off stuff that is resold is still in perfect condition without damage and by selling it to Joe Customer it's cheaper than shipping it to recycle. Commercial roofers do not advertise such (retailers whine & cry at their lost 400%+ markup profits) so you would have to hunt around a bit... Rigid foam can work in some vehicles but better in regular structure obviously.... very easy to work with and once done, what a comfort it affords.

 

[Deleted member 3614]

TBh i, ve not heard of direct vented heating.

the motorhome was already fitted with heating, shower, beds seating water its loo, all i did was convert parts making it into a home instead of van. the insulation is already there, eg the walls, its a simple find and fix cost-cutting by manufacturers which were very easy to do. it was taking small things and making small changes, the biggest has been around the solar and batteries.

The next project is the water rain filter system for the roof as finding water in the UK is almost as hard as trying to use a solar panel at night lol.

I think in the UK its could offcut and i think it would be dumbed, what i interested to do is add another layer of the form under the flooring in the summer, it seems to be a weak point in many vans.

just took a look at the foam, yes its the same as my vans wall insulation, its used throughout by the designer. its a cheap but effective insulation. its £18 per sheet and can't find any offcuts.

In the uk, theres a growing trend on fitting wood burners, they are nice but can be an issue and weigh a lot.

 

[namesgolden]

many Europeans are using diesel van heaters such as these (link is just a random google, many many more results out there) with good results

I'm in the US and deal with a lot of propane/lpg for flame effects, so I refill my tanks (5-100#) from a large tank (250#) stored at family home.

 

[Deleted member 3614]

many Europeans are using diesel van heaters such as these (link is just a random google, many many more results out there) with good results

I'm in the US and deal with a lot of propane/lpg for flame effects, so I refill my tanks (5-100#) from a large tank (250#) stored at family home.

Yes the diesel heaters are very popular at the moment, theres a few coming into the market from china I think that are a quarter of the price to sone of the high-end ones but they are so noisy. I bet if you took all kinds of items from heater, fridges so on you would have some kind of issue, i think we all try and buy the best of the worse.

For LPG its not looking good, we have a company called calor gas, omg they are the dons of gas, they have caused so much trouble and want to cause it too. because of their size no one can fight them. here is our LPG maps by the company i used for my gas bottles. there are other lpg sites but all are suffering the same issues with places stopping they gas.

The uk is a very bad place for anyone wanted a different style lifestyle and its now getting worse.

I think in the USA you guys have issues with diesel yes, many RV have to use petrol engines? if so the engine sizes must be large to pull the weight of the rv.

 

[namesgolden]

I think in the USA you guys have issues with diesel yes, many RV have to use petrol engines? if so the engine sizes must be large to pull the weight of the rv.

only in regards to small passenger cars due to federal regs, with large vehicles diesel is still king. I chose to buy a diesel pusher because they are built better and get good fuel mileage compared to "gassers"

tons of RV's came with the chevy 454 or ford 460 v8 naturally aspirated "petrol/gas" engine, they will get horible fuel milage and are made for short trips. my diesel pusher came with a cummins 8.3l inline 6 turbo diesel similar to a "big rig" truck or greyhound bus -- its made to get reasonable fuel mileage (consider my rig weighs 24k lbs) and travel hundreds of thousands of miles without issue.

the consolidation of LPG distributors is happening here, but because my area is rural many homes have the 250-1000# tanks in their yard, so competition is still real.

 

[Deleted member 3614]

only in regards to small passenger cars due to federal regs, with large vehicles diesel is still king. I chose to buy a diesel pusher because they are built better and get good fuel mileage compared to "gassers"

tons of RV's came with the chevy 454 or ford 460 v8 naturally aspirated "petrol/gas" engine, they will get horible fuel milage and are made for short trips. my diesel pusher came with a cummins 8.3l inline 6 turbo diesel similar to a "big rig" truck or greyhound bus -- its made to get reasonable fuel mileage (consider my rig weighs 24k lbs) and travel hundreds of thousands of miles without issue.

the consolidation of LPG distributors is happening here, but because my area is rural many homes have the 250-1000# tanks in their yard, so competition is still real.

I got to say it, bloody hell, 8.3 lt? i guess your rvs in the usa are large, mine is called a large type at just 7.2 m its only 2.2 l 140 bhp at just over 3 tons, our roads are small narrow one small van can jam a whole road up, called country lanes or byroads, only as wide as a small car, its a fun drive as you nearly touch houses as you pass by.

OMg if your rv is that size like a greyhound bus it would not fit in many places and parking, well no chance tbh.

thing hobit sized everything and thats the uk lol no joke. big to us eg houses, cars and god knows what else would be like models to you lot lol.

 

[namesgolden]

bloody hell, 8.3 lt?

8.3l is big, but before the motorhome I was looking at 3/4-1ton trucks (dodge 2500-3500, f250-350) with 5.9l or 7.3l turbodiesels -- but trucks like that are expensive right now.

in the past decade it became cool to get a big diesel truck, lift it, put huge tires and drive it as a daily driver (yes, americans are that dumb, and most of those trucks never see any actual work) -- it was actually cheaper to buy the RV than a solid used pickup.

mine is a 37' -- so 11.3 meters. it's a big vehicle even in american terms, but then there are people with 22' long trucks and 43' long triple axle toy haulers. there are people with 45' long class A rv's (like mine but larger)

yes parking and such is an issue with a large beast. you stick to interstates, large truck stops (mine fuels the same as a large truck) and known routes - we will be towing a mk4/2001 vw jetta/bora (1.8t/5sp) to get around.

you also have to understand the vast distances we cross. my planned trip in Feb is 1000mi one way, and I did that in 16 hours last year (in a pickup) -- in august its 2500mi one way.

most people with long commutes drive small cars. the corolla and camry changed reality for lots of Americans.

 

[Maast]

Actually the diesel heaters are fairly quiet. I've got one on my boat and the rush of air through the round ductwork is no louder than the sound of air through house ducting. I've got mine under the seat in the galley and I can just barely hear it operate.

Now the clicking of the fuel pump can drive you to distraction if you mount it on something hard, but if you isolate it using a block of soft rubber or neoprene and put it outside the living space you can't hear it. They put out an immense amount of dry heat, sip the fuel and don't use much power.