Not sure if this will be helpful heating and insulation

[Deleted member 3614]

you also have to understand the vast distances we cross. my planned trip in Feb is 1000mi one way, and I did that in 16 hours last year (in a pickup) -- in august its 2500mi one way.

most people with long commutes drive small cars. the corolla and camry changed reality for lots of Americans.

Its really funny because i,ve known many in the USA and often have the distance chat thing where i will say us British are worn out after driving 50 miles. the most you can drive here is john o groat to lands end 874 miles, Cornwall to the tip of Scotland. it would take me 4 days i guess. not sure if its due to spending 18years on motorbikes thats done that as driving slow knackers me out, the uk can get gridlocks where a 5-mile drive can take hours were being on the bike i would just go down the middle. oddly i now say i need a holiday from the motorhome lol.

In the uk and i find this so odd, almost every camper and motorhome who i see parked up, they never step out their vehicles, only if they have dogs they may walk a few yards with the dogs where i will spend hours out walking miles living my lifestyle. since July when i bought the RV, i, ve seen just one person out enjoying the countryside.

 

[Deleted member 3614]

Actually the diesel heaters are fairly quiet. I've got one on my boat and the rush of air through the round ductwork is no louder than the sound of air through house ducting. I've got mine under the seat in the galley and I can just barely hear it operate.

Now the clicking of the fuel pump can drive you to distraction if you mount it on something hard, but if you isolate it using a block of soft rubber or neoprene and put it outside the living space you can't hear it. They put out an immense amount of dry heat, sip the fuel and don't use much power.

I think it was one of the cheaper ones on youtube , just found it heater

they seem to be popular nowadays and getting cheaper too.

 

[Deleted member 783]

Direct vent = hole to the outside to vent exhaust gasses, possibly a chimney.

Ventless = no vent/chimney of any kind. Generally works below 5,000' elevation and not above, as they will shut down when ambient oxygen levels fall below 18%. When you get above 7,000' or so, ambient oxygen levels are always that low, so they won't even light. Not a good choice for any small area unless you are around sea level. You probably will still need a vent to bring in fresh combustion air.

Why are the LPG outlets being shut down? I use 100# bottles of propane for my heat, and even my small town there are 5 or 6 places to get it.

 

[Deleted member 3614]

Direct vent = hole to the outside to vent exhaust gasses, possibly a chimney.

Ventless = no vent/chimney of any kind. Generally works below 5,000' elevation and not above, as they will shut down when ambient oxygen levels fall below 18%. When you get above 7,000' or so, ambient oxygen levels are always that low, so they won't even light. Not a good choice for any small area unless you are around sea level. You probably will still need a vent to bring in fresh combustion air.

Why are the LPG outlets being shut down? I use 100# bottles of propane for my heat, and even my small town there are 5 or 6 places to get it.

Direct vent = hole to the outside to vent exhaust gasses, possibly a chimney.

Ventless = no vent/chimney of any kind. Generally works below 5,000' elevation and not above, as they will shut down when ambient oxygen levels fall below 18%. When you get above 7,000' or so, ambient oxygen levels are always that low, so they won't even light. Not a good choice for any small area unless you are around sea level. You probably will still need a vent to bring in fresh combustion air.

Why are the LPG outlets being shut down? I use 100# bottles of propane for my heat, and even my small town there are 5 or 6 places to get it.

A company called calor gas rule them all, filling station charge about 59p per lt, for my twin gas bottle system it costs just £18 but a bottle from calor gas costs £37 or more per bottle. a rip off but no one can fight the greed sods, they do as they wish as they know no one dare take them one.

the chimney, its a simple cover around it that vents lost heat, so gases are not touched like the chimney, otherwise the heat is all lost within the wardrobes.

 

[- "Mad" Max Speedwell]

Here is what I have learned about insulation after 7+ years alone in a small cabin in the high mountains near the U.S.- Canadian border:

The little cabin (actually, a storage shed, 16' x 26' on two floors) has insulation values of:

*Floor: R-41 (This includes IR barriers. Anything below R28 is not enough, and anything over R28 is just wasting money. (I over did it on the floors).

*Walls: R-52 Inside is glass batt, then an R6 IR barrier, and finally on the outside is 3X R6 poly-iso. My cabin has that type of wall but is only R31.
It's not enough in the summer (up to 111F and about 50% humidity), and it is worse in the winter. R31 just won't work.
With the foam being the outermost layer of insulation, the dew point occures in the foam, and not in the glass batt. Fiberglas R-values are compromised at temperatures above or below 70F. Humidity can reduce the R-value of glass batts to almost zero. Keep it dry and it works just fine.

*Ceiling: R-116 The dormer in my small shed has R values as high as R112, and the pitch of the roof is foam R40. Again, it is very noticeable that
I don't have enough insulation. On a larger structure, the internal square footage will incrrease greatly compared to the wall area. This does not alter the need for great R-values, BUT it does alter the need for greater mass inside the insulated area. I arrived at the figure of 31#/ square foot of floor space. The mass is your energy wheel. Cut the weight/sq.ft. in half if your mass is water.

Also, Seal your doors, windows, sill plate, top plate, and use an acrylic mist seal before insulating. Minimize thermal bridging.

Though I am woefully short on mass and insulation (at 78F it is minimally tolerable, and at -3F the wood stove is working overtime). Upstairs, it can get up to about 78F in the summer. I usually can't open the windows at night because of the smoke. I hope to have my airconditioning ready for this summer. It is solar, and from the numbers, it appears that I should make it through the fire season in comfort.

Windows... I could write a book on how to have adequate windows.

-Max

 

[- "Mad" Max Speedwell]

I should have mentioned my mass....

The walls are 2x 5/8" drywall. 3x 3/4" drywall would have been adequate.
Of course, this is not practical in an RV.

 

[Deleted member 3614]

I should have mentioned my mass....

The walls are 2x 5/8" drywall. 3x 3/4" drywall would have been adequate.
Of course, this is not practical in an RV.

I actually was giving out advice
not sure why this has turned out giving me advice when the thread at the top states not sure if this helps???

what i have done to my motorhome, no daylight its one of the rarest in the UK with what i have done with it.

Taking a stock motorhome and turning it into something that will not rely on those dam campsites, something I hate with a passion, it is meant as a normal home with wheels, not a holiday van or certain times of the year but one that can handle what i will be throwing at it.

i,m a weather chaser so it has to withstand the hell it goes throw and function as a normal home.

The bathroom is heated by a 40mm 01 amp fan which draws heat from the heaters chimney which runs through the wardrobe, what you can do with wasted heat.

As for insulation, we have a coated type that costs £27 per sheet and has coatings both sides but the van already has this everywhere.

one main issue with motorhomes is the cab area, i have with mine built a bulkhead with a door which has cut all drafts out which has a plus point of 0 damp issues on the front window and of course removes the van look completely.

just a few weeks to go before its compleated, just the tilting solar panels and the roof fed water system.

 

[Supervstech]

Here is what I have learned about insulation after 7+ years alone in a small cabin in the high mountains near the U.S.- Canadian border:

The little cabin (actually, a storage shed, 16' x 26' on two floors) has insulation values of:

*Floor: R-41 (This includes IR barriers. Anything below R28 is not enough, and anything over R28 is just wasting money. (I over did it on the floors).

*Walls: R-52 Inside is glass batt, then an R6 IR barrier, and finally on the outside is 3X R6 poly-iso. My cabin has that type of wall but is only R31.
It's not enough in the summer (up to 111F and about 50% humidity), and it is worse in the winter. R31 just won't work.
With the foam being the outermost layer of insulation, the dew point occures in the foam, and not in the glass batt. Fiberglas R-values are compromised at temperatures above or below 70F. Humidity can reduce the R-value of glass batts to almost zero. Keep it dry and it works just fine.

*Ceiling: R-116 The dormer in my small shed has R values as high as R112, and the pitch of the roof is foam R40. Again, it is very noticeable that
I don't have enough insulation. On a larger structure, the internal square footage will incrrease greatly compared to the wall area. This does not alter the need for great R-values, BUT it does alter the need for greater mass inside the insulated area. I arrived at the figure of 31#/ square foot of floor space. The mass is your energy wheel. Cut the weight/sq.ft. in half if your mass is water.

Also, Seal your doors, windows, sill plate, top plate, and use an acrylic mist seal before insulating. Minimize thermal bridging.

Though I am woefully short on mass and insulation (at 78F it is minimally tolerable, and at -3F the wood stove is working overtime). Upstairs, it can get up to about 78F in the summer. I usually can't open the windows at night because of the smoke. I hope to have my airconditioning ready for this summer. It is solar, and from the numbers, it appears that I should make it through the fire season in comfort.

Windows... I could write a book on how to have adequate windows.

-Max

Well, yes, moisture compromises fiberglass insulation...

A totally sealed outer vapor barrier keeps down moisture intrusion.

A sealed inner vapor barrier keeps our wet breathing bodies from getting moisture in it also.
Our breath outputs 98F 100% humidity CO2 rich vapor. A small interior space concentrates this vapor and permeable interior surfaces allow it into the fiberglass...

Sealing the surface, and ventilating air changes needed to breathe is a balance difficult to solve.
An erv or hrv can be used to help...

Have fun!

 

[Steve_S]

Well, yes, moisture compromises fiberglass insulation...

A totally sealed outer vapor barrier keeps down moisture intrusion.

A sealed inner vapor barrier keeps our wet breathing bodies from getting moisture in it also.
Our breath outputs 98F 100% humidity CO2 rich vapor. A small interior space concentrates this vapor and permeable interior surfaces allow it into the fiberglass...

Sealing the surface, and ventilating air changes needed to breathe is a balance difficult to solve.
An erv or hrv can be used to help...

Have fun!

Quite correct and when people do not account for the moisture, air envelope & air exchanging in a tight build, end up with what is commonly termed as a "Sick House". Fiberglass batts are a horrible creation and should be avoided at all costs, using Rockwool like ROXUL is t solution to that, as it is hydrophobic, neutral in all manner, fire proof, insects hate it and rodents can't stand it (get's in their skin).

Ever see inside a wall with fiberglass insulation after 10 years... black mould, humidity streaks, insect & mouse nests, even seen fungus growing away happily in the walls... all contributing to a sick house which makes it's occupants sick. In my climate this is a primary consideration whenever a build is done and regulations exist to prevent such, including the need for an HRV/ERV system in a home.

 

[Stupid Monkey]

Also in the UK, but only full time Feb to October.
Don't struggle for gas? I have 19kg calor that are £70 a pop and last ages. But want to swap to refillable ones as that's cheaper again. Just fill up at autogas places for LPG cars.

I dont struggle for water either, but I know the landowner/farmer/forest manager at wherever I'm camped and working.

Surprised but happy you have dump-load power for that halogen heater on one of the UK message boards loads complaining about only getting 20w at moment but tilting panels will help. Sun is really low even in middle of day.

 

[Deleted member 783]

Here is what I have learned about insulation after 7+ years alone in a small cabin in the high mountains near the U.S.- Canadian border:

The little cabin (actually, a storage shed, 16' x 26' on two floors) has insulation values of:

*Floor: R-41 (This includes IR barriers. Anything below R28 is not enough, and anything over R28 is just wasting money. (I over did it on the floors).

*Walls: R-52 Inside is glass batt, then an R6 IR barrier, and finally on the outside is 3X R6 poly-iso. My cabin has that type of wall but is only R31.
It's not enough in the summer (up to 111F and about 50% humidity), and it is worse in the winter. R31 just won't work.
With the foam being the outermost layer of insulation, the dew point occures in the foam, and not in the glass batt. Fiberglas R-values are compromised at temperatures above or below 70F. Humidity can reduce the R-value of glass batts to almost zero. Keep it dry and it works just fine.

*Ceiling: R-116 The dormer in my small shed has R values as high as R112, and the pitch of the roof is foam R40. Again, it is very noticeable that
I don't have enough insulation. On a larger structure, the internal square footage will incrrease greatly compared to the wall area. This does not alter the need for great R-values, BUT it does alter the need for greater mass inside the insulated area. I arrived at the figure of 31#/ square foot of floor space. The mass is your energy wheel. Cut the weight/sq.ft. in half if your mass is water.

Also, Seal your doors, windows, sill plate, top plate, and use an acrylic mist seal before insulating. Minimize thermal bridging.

Though I am woefully short on mass and insulation (at 78F it is minimally tolerable, and at -3F the wood stove is working overtime). Upstairs, it can get up to about 78F in the summer. I usually can't open the windows at night because of the smoke. I hope to have my airconditioning ready for this summer. It is solar, and from the numbers, it appears that I should make it through the fire season in comfort.

Windows... I could write a book on how to have adequate windows.

-Max

R116??? How are you achieving this? I've never even heard of an R value this high, and you say it's not enough?

 

[Deleted member 783]

Quite correct and when people do not account for the moisture, air envelope & air exchanging in a tight build, end up with what is commonly termed as a "Sick House". Fiberglass batts are a horrible creation and should be avoided at all costs, using Rockwool like ROXUL is t solution to that, as it is hydrophobic, neutral in all manner, fire proof, insects hate it and rodents can't stand it (get's in their skin).

Ever see inside a wall with fiberglass insulation after 10 years... black mould, humidity streaks, insect & mouse nests, even seen fungus growing away happily in the walls... all contributing to a sick house which makes it's occupants sick. In my climate this is a primary consideration whenever a build is done and regulations exist to prevent such, including the need for an HRV/ERV system in a home.

Totally climate dependent of course. If you have mice and insects getting in, there is another issue that needs to be addressed.

 

[Steve_S]

Totally climate dependent of course. If you have mice and insects getting in, there is another issue that needs to be addressed.

Not for me LOL. Walls are solid HD-EPS2 foam (built as SIPS) R30, FPSF Slab has 4" HD-XPS foam for R20, roof (cathedral) has 8" PolyISO R45. Bugs & Critters hate the stuff.

Mice & Insects are a part of the world, there is to way to prevent them from getting in if they want. Best to make it unpleasant / undesirable for them but not providing somewhere they will like. Rockwool works good for that, if you need to use BATT type insulation.

I don't know if it's available everywhere yet, nor how crazy the prices could be but there is now Rockwool Panels which come in similar formats to foam, easy to work with and carry all the best attributes with them. There are versions for interior use as well as exterior use (for retrofits and high efficiency builds).

 

[Deleted member 783]

Not for me LOL. Walls are solid HD-EPS2 foam (built as SIPS) R30, FPSF Slab has 4" HD-XPS foam for R20, roof (cathedral) has 8" PolyISO R45. Bugs & Critters hate the stuff.

Mice & Insects are a part of the world, there is to way to prevent them from getting in if they want. Best to make it unpleasant / undesirable for them but not providing somewhere they will like. Rockwool works good for that, if you need to use BATT type insulation.

I don't know if it's available everywhere yet, nor how crazy the prices could be but there is now Rockwool Panels which come in similar formats to foam, easy to work with and carry all the best attributes with them. There are versions for interior use as well as exterior use (for retrofits and high efficiency builds).

I havent seen that Rockwool here. Too late for me! ? I don't need much insulation where I live, and its very dry. I did spend a lot of time and effort sealing every nook and cranny of my cabin to prevent rodents from getting in. I'd be really surprised if they could, but you never know.

 

[Steve_S]

Even if your deep in the Outback of Australia (hopefully without any fires around) insulation serves a purpose if you want to keep cool inside & hot outside. Fortunately it is a lot less problem in a warm region that up north where every bit counts in all seasons. Some folks up here are redoing RV's and even converting them to Tiny Homes but because of space issues for insulation, spray foams are big but $$, rigid foams can be problematic with shapes obviously (think airstream) but a product called Comfort Board which is rockwool seems to work for them on price and R value. There is an RV Shop not far from me, where I get various things (luckily he is also a sailor with ocean going sailboat) and he uses the Comfort Board of refits & rebuilds, he mentioned it to me when he was redoing a steel hulled boat.

 

[- "Mad" Max Speedwell]

The R116 is foam.
I should have sandwiched foil in the foam.
That is enough for the ceiling.

 

[bulrush]

Just some ideas for portable heating, including alcohol stoves. Various types of alcohol can be used with alcohol stoves and they are safe to use indoors.
Long link to html file.

 

[nibs]

If you can buy pellets, there are any number of high quality small pellet stoves around.
Same goes for fire wood.
On our yacht we bought a diesel space heater (with exhaust vent) worked like a charm, It was made by Dickenson in Vancouver BC, I even coupled it to a 5 gallon water heater tank.
Insulation is the least sexy, most effective way to get warm. If you can handle extra kilos, some sort of heat sink (water/cement/rock) will tend to even out the temp.
Insulating under the floor is difficult but most effective.

 

[nibs]

Another thought is to use an espar style coolant heater and plumb in finned baseboard radiators to use the coolant to heat the living space. a 12 volt pump mounted in the engine room would be very quiet.
The espar is used as a heater for starting diesels in cold weather, and for keeping sleeping quarters warm on long distance articulated lorries (semis) in the US.

 

[HARG Hunter]

Quite correct and when people do not account for the moisture, air envelope & air exchanging in a tight build, end up with what is commonly termed as a "Sick House". Fiberglass batts are a horrible creation and should be avoided at all costs, using Rockwool like ROXUL is t solution to that, as it is hydrophobic, neutral in all manner, fire proof, insects hate it and rodents can't stand it (get's in their skin).

Ever see inside a wall with fiberglass insulation after 10 years... black mould, humidity streaks, insect & mouse nests, even seen fungus growing away happily in the walls... all contributing to a sick house which makes it's occupants sick. In my climate this is a primary consideration whenever a build is done and regulations exist to prevent such, including the need for an HRV/ERV system in a home.

I could really use some advice on this topic.
I've often wondered if we are building our cabin the right way when it comes to insulation.

We are doing our best to make this cabin as critter proof as possible.
Steel roof, Aluminum soffits and fascia. Vinyl Siding. Using tin flashing to seal under the starter strips on the vinyl siding.
Our cabin is built on a concrete slab, so they can't penetrate from under.

This cabin will be primarily used from March - November.
When we are not there, there isn't anything running (Heat, Air etc...)
We are 100% off grid.

What does this mean when it comes to moisture/temp control on the side of the cabin?
We will be running an Air Conditioner in the summer months, more so for moisture than temp.
We have a propane furnace for early spring and late fall (hunting season).

Now, when it comes to insulation and the materials we finish the wall and ceiling with, I would love advice.
We planned on fiberglass batts for the walls and ceiling, with portions of the walls being covered with drywall, and portions being covered with cedar paneling. I'm wondering if I need to re-engineer some of these materials / decisions.