diy solar

diy solar

Now for something "Mini Hydro" a little bit different.

Warpspeed

Solar Wizard
Joined
Jun 11, 2021
Messages
1,476
Location
Melbourne, Australia
I am a city suburban dweller, so no hydro for me...

Anyhow, we are all familiar with large majestically turning water wheels, and those small frantically spinning Pelton wheels, but there is not really much available to us in between those two extremes.

Larger commercial hydro schemes that do not have a very large head of water, invariably use some form of Francis turbine.
These are particularly efficient, because water in the snail shaped volute forms into a free vortex, which powers ALL of the blades ALL of the time.

The result is MASSIVE torque that is just not available to a Pelton wheel, or water wheel, where only one bucket or one blade is being powered at any one instant.

There is a lot of very complex curved geometry inside a Francis turbine that would normally put it way out of the reach of home brew fabrication.

Over the last few decades, turbochargers have now reached a very high stage of development, especially the exhaust turbine side, which is of most interest to us here.
These spin at fantastically high rpm and generate many shaft horsepower, driven by only hot air !
To make these as efficient as they now are, requires some very complex design and precision both in the snail shaped volute, and the curved turbine blades.

The operating principle is EXACTLY that of the larger Francis turbine, with all the exact same geometry, but obviously much smaller.

Not only that, exhaust gasses are extremely corrosive, so the turbine wheel and shaft are made of a very high grade of very hard stainless steel, which can never corrode or be abraded when used as a water turbine.

Water is about 784 times as dense as air, and a small turbocharger turbine would turn much more slowly and generate vastly more torque than with the exhaust gas flow it was originally designed for. http://www.theweatherprediction.com/habyhints/216/

Turbochargers also come in a wide range of sizes, and for each size, several different turbine housings (nozzle size) are available, where you could adjust turbine rpm and water flow within a certain limited range to suit the application.

Turbochargers can have either sleeve bearings or ball bearings, and are usually pressure fed from the engine oil supply.
Our water turbine will only be turning relatively slowly, and we could just pack it with grease.
The grease to use would be boat trailer bearing grease which happily does not break down when continually completely immersed in even salt water.

If I had the opportunity, I would really like to get my hands on an old turbo from a large truck.
Car sized turbos are all pretty small, for the type of Mini Hydro I am thinking of.

Maybe this will spur someone into trying out this idea.
 

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Interesting idea for sure considering the vortex. Viktor Schauberger anyone? Wonder how many know this name?

Initial reaction: The output would be very low unless the water pressure was fairly high. Its kind of the same principle as trying to capture waste heat from manufacturing. The thermal dynamic efficiency is poor when there is not much temp differential between input and output making the cost vs. payback uneconomical.
 
Initial reaction: The output would be very low unless the water pressure was fairly high.
May I introduce you to the 1963 Oldsmobile with the variable pitch torque converter? Said technology is now available in turbos and, not surprisingly, why modern diesels can pass emissions.
 
Its really not suggested as a universal solution by any means, just one more idea that may suit someone's particular application.

It would certainly be strong enough for a high pressure application.
Only disadvantage I can see, it might clog fairly easily from weed or debris, but then so might a Pelton nozzle.

The attraction is mainly in its potential high efficiency, for whatever head/flow you might have.
There are even housings available with movable vanes, although they are not as cheap and plentiful as the plain housings.
*edit*
You beat me to the draw HDO.
 

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    vgt_turbo.png
    36 KB · Views: 5
I am a city suburban dweller, so no hydro for me...

Anyhow, we are all familiar with large majestically turning water wheels, and those small frantically spinning Pelton wheels, but there is not really much available to us in between those two extremes.

Larger commercial hydro schemes that do not have a very large head of water, invariably use some form of Francis turbine.
These are particularly efficient, because water in the snail shaped volute forms into a free vortex, which powers ALL of the blades ALL of the time.

The result is MASSIVE torque that is just not available to a Pelton wheel, or water wheel, where only one bucket or one blade is being powered at any one instant.

There is a lot of very complex curved geometry inside a Francis turbine that would normally put it way out of the reach of home brew fabrication.

Over the last few decades, turbochargers have now reached a very high stage of development, especially the exhaust turbine side, which is of most interest to us here.
These spin at fantastically high rpm and generate many shaft horsepower, driven by only hot air !
To make these as efficient as they now are, requires some very complex design and precision both in the snail shaped volute, and the curved turbine blades.

The operating principle is EXACTLY that of the larger Francis turbine, with all the exact same geometry, but obviously much smaller.

Not only that, exhaust gasses are extremely corrosive, so the turbine wheel and shaft are made of a very high grade of very hard stainless steel, which can never corrode or be abraded when used as a water turbine.

Water is about 784 times as dense as air, and a small turbocharger turbine would turn much more slowly and generate vastly more torque than with the exhaust gas flow it was originally designed for. http://www.theweatherprediction.com/habyhints/216/

Turbochargers also come in a wide range of sizes, and for each size, several different turbine housings (nozzle size) are available, where you could adjust turbine rpm and water flow within a certain limited range to suit the application.

Turbochargers can have either sleeve bearings or ball bearings, and are usually pressure fed from the engine oil supply.
Our water turbine will only be turning relatively slowly, and we could just pack it with grease.
The grease to use would be boat trailer bearing grease which happily does not break down when continually completely immersed in even salt water.

If I had the opportunity, I would really like to get my hands on an old turbo from a large truck.
Car sized turbos are all pretty small, for the type of Mini Hydro I am thinking of.

Maybe this will spur someone into trying out this idea.
Well… the GM 6.5 has a small turbo that are a dime a dozen at scrap yards… heck, I have 5 or so sitting around.
Shouldn’t take much to grab one, pack the bearings and try it out…
 
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