NYSERDA

[mmmmmdonuts]

How many kW of panels?

I have 76 panels for 26.22kW DC at the panels and a peak 23kW back to the grid. Sunny boy 3x 6.0 and 1x 5.0.

Since we weren't in the house long a large basis of estimate was how the previous owners used power. Big difference between an older couple with grown kids and a young family with children home all day everyday. Fudge factors were applied but only get you so far. Since have added a 30' pool and are looking at EVs now.

 

[ruralsolar]

I am also just south of Syracuse as well in Pompey. Initially a contractor installed the initial system and filed the paperwork and everything.

As far from a power consumption standpoint I use probably 36,000kWh (36MWh) give or take during the year since everything I run is electric including heat. I generate around 28-30MWh for the year which is around the estimate my installer showed as well. Since they also installed two geothermal systems it was hard to exactly calculate how much power consumption would be used. They said it would be off set at 99% with the solar install but in reality it is closer to 80% net offset. From a grid tie perspective the most I have ever seen banked in the fall season is something like a cumulative 12MWh to the grid.

I think this is something NY and utilities are going to need to look at as they push hard for "green" power. As you stated, 26kw DC array still doesn't cover your electric. I'm assuming your house is about as efficient as it can get to try and lower your usage.

I read the below standard as 25kw for grid tie net-metered array, meaning you could add another say 10kw of solar but you can't export it's excess power, that's where batteries plus EV charging would come into play.

https://dps.ny.gov/system/files/documents/2024/02/sir-effective-february-1-2024.pdf

 

[mmmmmdonuts]

I think this is something NY and utilities are going to need to look at as they push hard for "green" power. As you stated, 26kw DC array still doesn't cover your electric. I'm assuming your house is about as efficient as it can get to try and lower your usage.

I am not as perfectly efficient but pretty darn close. 3k sq ft house and fairly well insulated:

1) 8 tons of geothermal on two systems (40% of my energy roughly)
2) Heat pump hot water heater
3) Electric dryer (Could eventually upgrade to heat pump when the cost goes down)
4) Electric stove (Could go to induction but that really only helps stove top or gas)
5) Hot tub (Looking to move to geo loop for efficiency)
6) Pool pump (Could go variable speed but only 3 months)
7) All LED lights everywhere with timers and dimmers
8) Small server (<70W)
9) ZERO electric cars

If NYS or the federal government are trying to move to all electric we got quite a ways to go, because I know I am maybe a high user but not that ridiculously high.

I read the below standard as 25kw for grid tie net-metered array, meaning you could add another say 10kw of solar but you can't export it's excess power, that's where batteries plus EV charging would come into play.

https://dps.ny.gov/system/files/documents/2024/02/sir-effective-february-1-2024.pdf

I wonder about the batteries and then back-feeding at night. I read you can only do it at once, or possibly use bifacial panels set east to west to pickup morning sun.

Or if there was away to transfer the house at night all to batteries and swap back during the day without a power dropout. Not sure if the systems are fast enough to do that or act as a UPS. And run the house down until you get to 20% battery or something then charge back up. The problem is winter vs summer here.

 

[ruralsolar]

I am not as perfectly efficient but pretty darn close. 3k sq ft house and fairly well insulated:

1) 8 tons of geothermal on two systems (40% of my energy roughly)
2) Heat pump hot water heater
3) Electric dryer (Could eventually upgrade to heat pump when the cost goes down)
4) Electric stove (Could go to induction but that really only helps stove top or gas)
5) Hot tub (Looking to move to geo loop for efficiency)
6) Pool pump (Could go variable speed but only 3 months)
7) All LED lights everywhere with timers and dimmers
8) Small server (<70W)
9) ZERO electric cars

If NYS or the federal government are trying to move to all electric we got quite a ways to go, because I know I am maybe a high user but not that ridiculously high.

I wonder about the batteries and then back-feeding at night. I read you can only do it at once, or possibly use bifacial panels set east to west to pickup morning sun.

Or if there was away to transfer the house at night all to batteries and swap back during the day without a power dropout. Not sure if the systems are fast enough to do that or act as a UPS. And run the house down until you get to 20% battery or something then charge back up. The problem is winter vs summer here.

I have a sol-ark 15k, my plan for batteries is for power outages but my understanding was that the scenario you lay out is what it can do. Charge the batteries with excess solar, once charged, export to the grid, once PV can't provide power you can tell it when/what to prioritize power wise. Reads like your case would be pull from batteries until 20% then pull from the grid, all seamlessly.

This video is nuts to me but might be a direction you're looking at haha?

 

[mmmmmdonuts]

I have a sol-ark 15k, my plan for batteries is for power outages but my understanding was that the scenario you lay out is what it can do. Charge the batteries with excess solar, once charged, export to the grid, once PV can't provide power you can tell it when/what to prioritize power wise. Reads like your case would be pull from batteries until 20% then pull from the grid, all seamlessly.

This video is nuts to me but might be a direction you're looking at haha?

That is a ton of battery power in the video. That had to cost a fortune.

In an ideal world it would be great if I could do both battery backup and grid export all in one. I guess I would need to figure out how the other solar would work in this configuration as well with the grid tie converters I already have. I posted my diagram in one of the earlier posts so I would need to figure out how to incorporate it.

 

[ruralsolar]

That is a ton of battery power in the video. That had to cost a fortune.

In an ideal world it would be great if I could do both battery backup and grid export all in one. I guess I would need to figure out how the other solar would work in this configuration as well with the grid tie converters I already have. I posted my diagram in one of the earlier posts so I would need to figure out how to incorporate it.

Right!? Long run must be worth it for them....

One idea is to build out a 2nd array setup that is programmed to charge batteries and use that stored power when the sun goes down. Leave the current array as it is. Other is to use existing solar array, replace the 4 inverters with something else. I'm sure there are many others haha, depends on how much you're looking to do and how much you want to rip and replace if at all.

 

[mmmmmdonuts]

Right!? Long run must be worth it for them....

One idea is to build out a 2nd array setup that is programmed to charge batteries and use that stored power when the sun goes down. Leave the current array as it is. Other is to use existing solar array, replace the 4 inverters with something else. I'm sure there are many others haha, depends on how much you're looking to do and how much you want to rip and replace if at all.

Reading into the Sol-ark it looks like it would have exactly what I would need and looks like I could do the vast majority of it with one Sol-Ark. Biggest issue I see is that it is limited to 19.2kW AC solar input and I am at 23kW already. So it would look like I would need two of them minimum unless there was another way around it.

I do know Sunnyboy (whose inverters I already have) have their Island inverters that do something similar at way lower power but would need 4 or more of them.

 

[ruralsolar]

That youtube channel I sent earlier, they do a lot of paralleled 15ks. I don't know of a hybrid inverter that can do the amount of solar you have now in a split-phase setup, 3 phase there are units that could.

 

[mmmmmdonuts]

That youtube channel I sent earlier, they do a lot of paralleled 15ks. I don't know of a hybrid inverter that can do the amount of solar you have now in a split-phase setup, 3 phase there are units that could.

Understood. I was hoping not to have to parallel two converters just due to cost. On the other hand it gives you quite a bit of power for backup without stressing converters too much.

 

[Solar Guppy]

If you want to get away from the inverter limits and possible later expansion this is an option, Solis S6 11.4kw hybrid , can get three for price of a one 15K Solark. Each one has 4, 600V capable independent mppt channels and when used for storage they can be paralleled.

I have one running for about a month now grid tie, no issues and I have had a pair of Solis 5G's for three years with zero hardware issues.

 

[Brucey]

If you want to get away from the inverter limits and possible later expansion this is an option, Solis S6 11.4kw hybrid , can get three for price of a one 15K Solark. Each one has 4, 600V capable independent mppt channels and when used for storage they can be paralleled.

I have one running for about a month now grid tie, no issues waiting on my 20 Kw battery from Seplos to use the storage features. I have had a pair of Solis 5G's for three years with zero hardware issues.

Looks like the Solis needs a high voltage (120-500V battery)? Do you have a link to the seplos you ordered?

 

[Solar Guppy]

.

 

[mmmmmdonuts]

I have to look into that solis type system. It looks very similar to the sunny boy islands as well. Not sure if I like the high voltage battery or not just due to the lack of supply vs a 48V system.

I was also looking at the EG4 -18kp -12lv. It looks very similar to the Sol-Ark but allows 21.6kW (my max is 23kWh) coupled and allows a backfeed of up to 33.6kW total to the grid. I believe it also has the 200 amp breaker and the PV disconnect as well.

My other question is do I have to by code out the AC coupled grid tied feeds back through one of these hybrid converters or is mainly just for backup ease. I am thinking the anti-islanding rule in this case.

 

[Solar Guppy]

Not sure if I like the high voltage battery or not just due to the lack of supply vs a 48V system.

There are both UL9540 and unlisted options, when including the BOS components for a battery and the cost differences including wires, fuses etc., there isn't a large difference between low or high voltage. For example on just the battery a 20 kw high voltage is $8k with Pylontech H1 vs $6k for generic rack mount 48V same capacity.

The cost of wire and protection is a significant difference, as your looking at 50 amps for HV @ 400V vs 400 amps for the same energy at 48V.

For sure there are many more choices for 48V, but not sure if that is actually a needed benefit in building actual systems?

 

[mmmmmdonuts]

There are both UL9540 and unlisted options, when including the BOS components for a battery and the cost differences including wires, fuses etc., there isn't a large difference between low or high voltage. For example on just the battery a 20 kw high voltage is $8k with Pylontech H1 vs $6k for generic rack mount 48V same capacity. If you go with unlisted ( Seplos ), cost is under $5k for closed loop 20kw option for high voltage.

The cost of wire and protection is a significant difference, as your looking at 50 amps for HV @ 400V vs 400 amps for the same energy at 48V.

For sure there are many more choices for 48V, but not sure if that is actually a needed benefit in building actual systems?

I agree with you. I honestly never thought of higher voltage batteries like that but it makes a lot of sense especially when you get to whole house backup level. There is always a trade off with system size and voltage level most of the time.

 

[mmmmmdonuts]

Thinking about this more I probably should detach one of the sunny boy inverters (5 or 6kW) and put it to the PV input of this on the Sol-Ark. This gets me roughly around 17-18kW for AC coupled and then run the additional panels to the Sol-Ark for more PV input. I can get an additional 12-13kW this way.

Biggest issue with this is I probably have to add additional trench of a couple hundred feet for the DC run. The nice thing is I probably could get away with smaller wire.

Then get something like a chargeverter and have a separate battery charger that I could use a generator for backup with. I would use the generator to charge batteries as much as possible if needed as a backup in the winter.

Would also work well with some sort of diesel generator as I could always run the generator pretty hard and not worry about wet stacking and things like that.

 

[mmmmmdonuts]

I know this an old thread but resurrecting it if anyone has any ideas. I am thinking gridboss / flexboss combo but am interested in some of the newer stuff coming out rapidly from others that is much cheaper. Any other gridboss like thing on the horizon?

Have also thought of using an off grid inverter to do this. Have added a 48V battery for my camper and an EG6000XP and solar, but thinking I can do something a little better for the house without spending a fortune.