OFF GRID PERMIT?

[12VoltInstalls]

Unless someone is an electrician and up to date on the Code (most have to put in 40 hours every two years to keep their license active as the code changes) they most likely are installing a less than safe system.

I beg to differ. Other than being misguided by numerous electricians in the past with guidance to install multiple ground rods including a year as an electrician’s apprentice (which participation on this site properly informed and corrected me) I have never managed or personally installed any “less than safe” 120VAC system.

I was nine or ten years old when i kneeled on the paved driveway using my dad’s old craftsman drill and got zapped- and determined to figure out how that could happen. At 12yo I could wire 3-way switches without having prior instructions (my dad couldn’t). By 25yo I could wire boats, audio systems, and had said apprenticeship (I wish I’d finished that but I quit after the boss did an incredibly stupid thing resulting in my getting a major concussion; like months of cognitive issues and some stuff today that may be related to that injury).

You have to know enough to know what you don’t know so you stop before doing dangerous things.

Other than smoking a circuit of DC LED lights by mindlessly working exhausted to the wee hours and then temporarily energizing the feed wires at dawn after only a few hours of sleep to test the circuit I’ve never smoked anything. (In my overtired state I mistakenly used the PV circuit bus instead of the battery bus and actually caught myself- too late- a millisecond before the very bright flash and sizzle)

So DIY can be safe as long as you stay alert. ?

 

[32 volt boater]

There will always be those cases but with a drought the real risk today is going to be watering our lawn too often.

Lawns are stupid.

"Nationwide, landscape irrigation is estimated to account for nearly one-third of all residential water use, totaling nearly 9 billion gallons per day.

Our addiction to lawns means that grass is the single largest irrigated agricultural “crop” in America, more than corn, wheat, and fruit orchards combined. A NASA-led study in 2005 found that there were 63,000 square miles of turf grass in the United States, covering an area larger than Georgia.


"At the time, I was reading Thoreau’s Walden. I decided to put one of his ideas into practice: “A man is rich in proportion to the number of things which he can afford to let alone.” I let new elm trees sprout to shade the yard. I let clovers and dandelions propagate to provide pollen for bees and nitrogen for the soil. I watered as little as I could, spread native grass seed, pulled weeds by hand, and put decorative rocks in front of the house to reduce the space I needed to water.

After a year without fertilizers, pesticides or mowing, the grasses grew tall, and they seeded new grass that sprouted the following spring. The yard did not look like the conventional grassy lawns of my neighbors, but it thrived in its own wild way.

At the end of my two-year stay, my landlord made me re-think Thoreau’s maxim: He kept my deposit and billed me for yard work performed on my behalf.

I drove by the property a few weeks later. Everything but the grass patches and oldest trees was gone. Without shade from the elms or groundcover, sunlight cooked the dirt into dust. The landlord’s mission to bring the land back to a monocultured lot negated any environmental good I thought I had done...

In the West, about 70% of residential water is used for landscaping, and most of this water ends up on grass."

https://www.hcn.org/issues/51.13/people-places-the-tyranny-of-lawns-and-landlords

 

[Lt.Dan]

The reason people (or atleast maybe its just me?) still have lawns and water it regularly is because the water bill isn't exorbitant enough for me to think about getting rid of it. I by no means have a large lawn, the front yard is maybe 100sq ft (10'x10') and the back is maybe 300sq ft (10'x30'), but I water it just enough to stay green, and my water bill is never more than $30/mo (including using water in the house for showers, dishes, clothes washing, etc). Its not like electricity where if I cut back on usage I will actually see more money in my wallet. If I cut back on watering my lawn, I save maybe $10/mo? Its not worth it for me to spend all my time, sweat, and even more money to rip out the grass and replace with something else for just $10/mo. The only other benefit is I don't have to mow my lawn anymore, which in all reality I can finish in 30-45 min, edging and all.

And I live in the apparent "driest state in the land" so tired of hearing that. If we were in a legitimate drought, I think they would be charging more for water, kind of like they are charging absolutely ridiculous amounts for electricity at peak times.

Note: I by no means know what I'm talking about, nor have I done any research to back my claims of being in a drought etc, this is just off the top of my head. I will say, that it bugs me when I see 2 of my very close neighbors watering their lawn at 2-3pm, the hottest times of the day, and half of it is running down the driveway into the gutter

 

[Ampster]

And I live in the apparent "driest state in the land" so tired of hearing that.

California certainly has dry sections but there is plenty of snowfall in the Sierras and that is where much of the water comes from to keep the California Aquaduct full. I still see flooded fields in the Central Valley so some farmers have water rights that are so inexpensive it does not make it economical for them to use drip irrigation.

 

[Solar Guppy]

The case started in May 2018 when Jim Ficken left his home in Dunedin,

James Ficken and has been a habitual offender in Pinellas county for over 30 years, if you care too , you can read about it here

 

[ChrisG]

I’m about to give up on permitted solar for my primary residence. Only Solar allowed here is buy all ($0.02) and sell all ($.011 back to me). An offgrid system must go through a meter also as well for buy all/sell all costs.

I’ve figured out what I’m going to do. Going to build a lean to gazebo on the patio of my pool (14’x28’) and put panels on it and and run PV wire (to code) to my garage (in PVC Underground then transition MC Amorite in crawlspace into garage where inverter will be. Will use my existing Reliance Transfer Switch from Generator to power my critical loads. They don’t buy my portable generator power when I use it so whatever.

 

[Ampster]

I’m about to give up on permitted solar for my primary residence. Only Solar allowed here is buy all ($0.02) and sell all ($.011 back to me). An offgrid system must go through a meter also as well for buy all/sell all costs.

Where I live in California you can get a building permit for solar but you do not have to get an interconnection agreement unless you are connected to the grid. Our building department is run by the County and completely independent of PG&E which is an Independently Owned Utility regulated by the California Public Utilities Commission.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

I’m about to give up on permitted solar for my primary residence. Only Solar allowed here is buy all ($0.02) and sell all ($.011 back to me). An offgrid system must go through a meter also as well for buy all/sell all costs.

I’ve figured out what I’m going to do. Going to build a lean to gazebo on the patio of my pool (14’x28’) and put panels on it and and run PV wire (to code) to my garage (in PVC Underground then transition MC Amorite in crawlspace into garage where inverter will be. Will use my existing Reliance Transfer Switch from Generator to power my critical loads. They don’t buy my portable generator power when I use it so whatever.

I decided against it in AZ. Enough solar to meet 70% of my annual needs would reduce my bill by 30% using SRP's own calculator and my actual usage.

They find the 30 minute period where I used the most power for the entire year and charge a fee on that basis. Both APS and SRP are actively hostile against solar in AZ.

The only thing I would consider is a grid-tied-zero-feedback system where I can offset a lot of my peak usage and have a much faster payback period.

 

[ChrisG]

Where I live in California you can get a building permit for solar but you do not have to get an interconnection agreement unless you are connected to the grid. Our building department is run by the County and completely independent of PG&E which is an Independently Owned Utility regulated by the California Public Utilities Commission.

Without exception in my city, your NEC and component drawing / list must meet this requirement (attached below) to get a permit. A sealed roof structural report must also be submitted with other permit material. The kicker is this damn connection requirement for on/off grid.

 

[george57]

The reason people (or atleast maybe its just me?) still have lawns and water it regularly is because the water bill isn't exorbitant enough for me to think about getting rid of it. I by no means have a large lawn, the front yard is maybe 100sq ft (10'x10') and the back is maybe 300sq ft (10'x30'), but I water it just enough to stay green, and my water bill is never more than $30/mo (including using water in the house for showers, dishes, clothes washing, etc). Its not like electricity where if I cut back on usage I will actually see more money in my wallet. If I cut back on watering my lawn, I save maybe $10/mo? Its not worth it for me to spend all my time, sweat, and even more money to rip out the grass and replace with something else for just $10/mo. The only other benefit is I don't have to mow my lawn anymore, which in all reality I can finish in 30-45 min, edging and all.

And I live in the apparent "driest state in the land" so tired of hearing that. If we were in a legitimate drought, I think they would be charging more for water, kind of like they are charging absolutely ridiculous amounts for electricity at peak times.

Note: I by no means know what I'm talking about, nor have I done any research to back my claims of being in a drought etc, this is just off the top of my head. I will say, that it bugs me when I see 2 of my very close neighbors watering their lawn at 2-3pm, the hottest times of the day, and half of it is running down the driveway into the gutter

We (Los Angeles)are banned from watering the lawn. We have inspectors driving around the city checking for homes that irrigate with sprinklers, usually, lush green lawns give it away. No washing cars. I take Navy showers (trickle valve on shower head), capture water in a bucket in the shower to water plants or for wiping down cars with a wet towel, not flushing every time for peeing, using paper plates and bowls to cut back on dishwashing. I am probably more proactive than most in saving water but it has to start. Celebrities who are water wasters are being outed in the news and being threatened with a flow restrictor being placed in their meters. You can and should report your neighbors who do this, they can be fined. Water is still extremely cheap. The first tier of water, up to 16HCF, is billed at $0.01 cents per gallon. Your water cost must be even less. I have reduced my consumption of water from 12HCF the previous year and from 10HCF the last billing. Now down to 7HCF this bill. The only thing I refuse to stop is keeping the small water fountain in my yard full of water, it does have a recirculating pump and I fill it with water I capture from the tub faucet before it gets hot which would have gone down the drain. Birds, bees, raccoons, and opossums, all make visits to get fresh water.

 

[Hedges]

If my grid connection was limited to 10A, I'd just use batteries to buffer my consumption. (My present setup has this feature, "Increased local consumption", although my feed is higher than peak consumption.)

If someone put a restrictor on my water line, I'd do the hydraulic/plumbing equivalent.

Now if someone would just back up a cement truck to the Peripheral Canal, or whatever they call the aqueduct used to steal our water, Northern California would be just fine, and Southern California would be "restored" to its original condition.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

Maybe I’m naive but can’t you drill a well? There’s wells around here go 500’ sometimes (because the running springs have been deemed unsafe due to leach fields and whatever)

 

[ChrisG]

I decided against it in AZ. Enough solar to meet 70% of my annual needs would reduce my bill by 30% using SRP's own calculator and my actual usage.

They find the 30 minute period where I used the most power for the entire year and charge a fee on that basis. Both APS and SRP are actively hostile against solar in AZ.

The only thing I would consider is a grid-tied-zero-feedback system where I can offset a lot of my peak usage and have a much faster payback period.

@sunshine_eggo
When you say “against it” I assume you mean against permitted setup, correct?

 

[sunshine_eggo]

@sunshine_eggo
When you say “against it” I assume you mean against permitted setup, correct?

Against grid tie on my primary residence.

 

[Hedges]

Maybe I’m naive but can’t you drill a well? There’s wells around here go 500’ sometimes (because the running springs have been deemed unsafe due to leach fields and whatever)

Yes, you are

https://www.valleywater.org/contractors/doing-businesses-with-the-district/wells-well-owners/well-permits-and-inspections

https://www.valleywater.org/sites/default/files/Well%20Permit%20Fee%20Schedule.pdf

https://www.valleywater.org/sites/default/files/Well%20Insurance%20Requirement%20Factsheet.pdf

 

[sunshine_eggo]

I'm wishing I had a spare $50K laying about to drill a 700' deep well in AZ.

 

[Hedges]

Maybe if you sell water to your neighbors ...

$50k amortized over 10 years isn't much more than my water bill. At 20 years I think I'd be "well" ahead.

 

[Risky Rob]

I'm wishing I had a spare $50K laying about to drill a 700' deep well in AZ.

Could you even get a permit?

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Maybe if you sell water to your neighbors ...

$50k amortized over 10 years isn't much more than my water bill. At 20 years I think I'd be "well" ahead.

LOTS more than mine. NOT separating sewer and trash out of my water bill puts me at a total of $29K after 24 years.

Could you even get a permit?

Not a problem in AZ

 

[JRH]

I want to install a 10 panel on the roof, no grid tie system on my house. But I don't want to get a permit, or rather I don't want an inspector poking around my property. It occurred to me that the panels will show up on google earth and the county might be watching. Has anyone heard of this happening or heard of any other pitfalls resulting from not getting s permit?

Here’s the problem in some places …it’s about real estate so it changes all the time and in each place it differers BUT ,it has different names , but in most places today there is what it called a Property Disclosure Form… it is filled out by the seller… there’s different versions , and there’s different ways to answer that is totally Legal .it’s been around for years but keeps getting larger and more comprehensive.
one of the newer questions I have seen in the last few years in my region is the question that states somthing like :
” has there been ANY work or additions done to this property without a permit being obtained..? Itemize and explain below…”

With solar ,be careful on that one .. I’m not going into it but be careful on that one unless your kid is a lawyer and you get free legal representation.

the way it’s phrased ,it did not ask you IF you did work that a permit was required for ,it ask was ANY work done with out a permit… period .. this is deep rabbit hole and I dont want to go there…
this may or may not apply to you , but it’s a thing…be aware of it if your going to do things yourself…especially electrical or structural.

it’s getting tough anymore to do anything without fear of somthing from someone , from somewhere..
but every place is different.
take your solar with you and ya don’t have to worry about who buys the place .
J.