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diy solar

diy solar

Off grid solar project

Is that in your charge controller or BMS?
The BMS; and I've just increased battery over voltage to 27.4, with the release value kept at 26.8. Cell over voltage is 3.45V with a release value of 3.40.

I'll still feel more comfortable with a physical isolator switch, as the days get longer.

I have ordered a second set of 8 cells from Shenzhen Luyuan, and when I build the second battery it won't be an issue any more - unless I get more panels!
 
I've always called it anglign, I guess you could call it an aluminium angle extrusion.

Just reading this thread for the first time and was intrigued to read the above.

I think it's meant to be "angle iron" ... though in this case you are after 'aluminium angle'

It's funny how we can get caught out with words or names we've heard for years ... but never quite worked out how they are spelt. Happens to me too often myself. :)
 
It's funny how we can get caught out with words or names we've heard for years ... but never quite worked out how they are spelt. Happens to me too often myself.
The converse is someone who mispronounces a word. Usually it means they learnt it from reading and can spell it.
 
The converse is someone who mispronounces a word. Usually it means they learnt it from reading and can spell it.
Haha, yep. The older I get, the more I second guess myself on spelling and also pronunciation. Used to be really confident, having read prolifically as a young person ... but not so much any more. (just had to spell check prolifically!!!)
 
At last the panels are on the shed roof.

PanelsonShed.jpg

And looking neater after a bit of cable management.

PanelsAfterCM.jpg
 
Panels look great, and secured. You need to set the BMS to protect the cells from abuse. Settings should be at the outer limits the industry fees acceptable, or slightly more conservative. Then set your charge controller to work within those parameters. If the charge controller doesn’t stay within those, then the BMS is a backup. I have operated LFP for 3 years and so far have never had a BMS open.
 
I have received another 8 cells from Amy Wan of Shenzhen Luyuan. Once again they were so well packed and in such pristine condition I was loathe to unpack them. But I pulled myself together and have now constructed a second 8s 24v battery and put it in parallel with the first.

This time I used a JK Smart (JK-B2A8S20P) BMS, mainly because I wanted to try out one with active balancing. It was also half the price of the Overkill BMS I am using with the first battery. And this is reflected to some extent in the workmanship. The cables are much shorter, one of the measurement cables fell out of the plug and had to be pushed back in; and I had to solder the main cables on to the board myself (something I don't enjoy).

The Bluetooth has a shorter range, but it works and I had no difficulty downloading the app and getting it talking to the BMS.

JKSS1.PNGJKSS2.PNG

There are no graphics in the app, but the information is all there, albeit spread over more space then my phone can display. Taking up some space is a display of the cell and measurement cable resistance. I’m not quite sure why I need that, except perhaps to confirm that the contacts in my terminators and the main plug are good. But anyway it seems to work just fine.

The cells were shipped very well in balance, and there are now 16 of them sharing my 800W base load and my 8 old and underperforming 190W panels, so I haven’t seen very much active balancing going on just yet (although I've just noticed in the second screenshot there is a small balancing current showing).

In fact there seems to be more balancing happening between the two batteries, than between the cells within each battery.

1664188907566.png

The chart above shows my first battery is charging and discharging faster than the second. Two questions sprang to mind. Why is this and does it matter? In answer to the first I measured the total resistance between the negative terminal and inverter for both batteries. And low and behold, for the first it was about 3.2 mΩ and for second about 4.5 mΩ. My explanation is that the BMS cables were too short to reach the inverter, so I had to add in another cable and another connection.

Does it matter? Using the formula P = I2R, at a base load current less than 20A that’s 1.3W being lost in the first circuit and 1.8W in the second – way less than the 25W being consumed by the inverter on idle. I worried for a moment that the first battery would “wear out” faster than the second, but the very presence of the second battery means that the first is “wearing out” slower than it was before, so I am not losing any sleep over it.
 
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If it were me, I would get the resistance balanced. No point in having 2 and only using 1.
Fair point, I should probably put that on my list of things to do.

I also need a few more panels, because the ones I have are not filling the combined battery to capacity.
 
Talking of things not being quite in balance, I have been disappointed by the power output of my panels with the sun at full strength, so now that they have been fixed to the roof I did some belated diagnostics.

For each pair of panels I measured the current flowing through the positive lead. For completeness I also measured the combined current flowing through the positive lead into the charge controller. The currents were 4.6, 3.9 4.5 and 4.0A from the panel pairs (adding up to 17A) while the combined current was 17.5A (probably a measurement error in there somewhere).

So two pairs are under performing, and I’d wager there is only one bad panel in each pair. So if I’d tested the panels in advance I could perhaps have squeezed an extra half amp out of the set and gained another 30W.

The OFG has a link to a solar panel tester, but I baulked at paying around $100 for something I would only use once. And for that price I could buy a couple of extra second hand panels and gain another 4-5A or in the order of 300W. But, with the benefit of hindsight, if one can force the probes of an ordinary multimeter into the solar panel connectors, there is probably something to be said for making at least some measurements before organising an array of second hand panels.
 

If your panels are wired in some series/parallel configuration, then choosing similar currents to wire in series could produce a bit more.
If you find any with bad diodes you can replace those.
 
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If your panels are wired in some series/parallel configuration, then choosing similar currents to wire in series cold produce a bit more.
If you find any with bad diodes you can replace those.
Yes, thanks, that's what I'd do if I did it all again. I am using the 2S4P configuration.
 
JKSS3.PNG
I can’t help posting this screenshot. It shows a zero voltage difference between cells. I don’t think I’ve ever seen that before. Either the active balancing is doing its job, or it is a very well balanced set of cells – probably both.

I should add that I have done none of the manual top balancing or bottom balancing that some people so painstakingly do. I just unpacked the cells, joined them together in a series string, wired in the BMS, connected the inverter and charge controller, and the battery was live.

I have read some pundits suggesting that you don’t need Grade A cells to power a house, but I disagree. The house doesn’t drain as much current as an EV, but having well matched top quality cells not only not only improves ease of management, but also gives you a greater practical depth of discharge.

I have posted a screenshot earlier in this thread of what I believe to be sub-EV quality cells showing a voltage different approaching 400 mV. I have set my BMS to give me a roughly 80% DoD to extend the battery life. The voltage ranges from roughly 3 to 4.2 V – a difference of 1.2 V. Imagine I had a difference of 400 mV between my highest and lowest potential cells. That would cut the usable capacity of my battery by something approaching a third.
 
Please don’t charge LFP cells over 3.65 volts per cell ever. Don’t charge to 3.65 on a regular basis. A paper by a university I Read said if LFP cells reach 4.2 volts or 2 volts to take them out of service, they can’t be trusted and will fail at some point.
I set the BMS to 3.65 and 2.5 volts per cell but set the charging more conservative than that.8703FF9B-CC45-4523-9DA0-D13906861EC0.png
 
I set the BMS to 3.65 and 2.5 volts per cell but set the charging more conservative than that.

I quite agree, and I set my BMS to 3.45 and 3.00.

1664950185067.png
The nominal capacity of my two batteries is 16 KWh and 80% of that is 12.8 KWh. You can see from the chart above that I mostly stay well within that range. Here is a snapshot of some of the data behind that chart.

1664950455601.png

Over the whole period of operation so far, my maxima and minima are as follows:

Voltagerange.jpg
I have marked them on your charts, although I note your charts are discharge charts, and I think to gauge the capacity associated with voltage maxima, you need to use a charging chart.

OFGBChargeDIYS.jpg

I've marked mine on a chart borrowed from the OFG running tests on cells with the same specs as mine. I'm not sure exactly what percentage capacity 3.75V represents, but by eye I'd estimate something in the order of 90%. So the capacity range associated with my voltage range is not far off 10% to 90%, which is what the manufacturer recommends for maximum cell life expectancy.
 
In the context of my last post, this has become quite an interesting chart; at least for me it has.

GraphCombo.jpg
EVE in their product specs state that the maximum voltage for these LFP cells is 3.65V and the minimum voltage is 2.5V. They also say you can extend the life of the cells by limiting the depth of discharge (DoD) to 80%.

I used charts published by the OFG to estimate the voltages associated with an 80% DoD. Essentially I followed the discharge curve to just before the inflection point to gauge my cell under voltage setting and the charging curve to just before its inflection point for guidance on my cell over voltage setting. I didn’t create my own curves because I don’t think these stress tests are good for the cells and I didn’t see any need to replicate the work of others.

Besides, I can tell from my own live working data, if I get it slightly wrong, because one or more runners will appear if I get too close to the inflection points. For example I originally set my cell over voltage to 3.45V, but one cell started running close to 50 mV ahead of the rest, so I reduced the cell over voltage to 3.425V. I also reduced the threshold for balancing from 3.4V to 3.3V on a difference of 10mV.

On the chart above, the orange lines represent the EVE max and min voltages, and the yellow lines represent my own cell over and under voltage levels. And you can see from 4 weeks of data the cell voltages have mostly remained well within that range.

According to the OFG video and other posts, that should give me an 80% DoD, which on 16 cells with a nominal capacity of 1KWh each should give a usable capacity of 12.8 KWh. But you can see from the chart, my actual usable capacity is getting very close to the nominal capacity of 16KWh. Of course the figures come from the BMSs and they could be wrong. But I don’t think they are, because the battery is easily running for 15 hours a night now, from 4:30 p.m. to 7:30 a.m., and the capacity figures are consistent with our measured usage over that period.

I should add that I sourced these cells from Amy Wan of Shenzhen Luyuan, and I am pretty pleased with them so far.
 
Are you saying battery and therefore cell voltage in graph is an estimate based on SoC (reported by BMS, I assume)?

I noticed cell voltage seemed to bounce up and down without much of a trend, while SoC in kWh has its good and bad days. Some are 7 kWh, some almost 16 kWh.

You also show energy getting close to "0", but I don't think cell voltage is at the lower knee.

So I wondered if that's because voltage doesn't reveal much. Also, if your operating voltage was high enough to accurately reset SoC or to maintain balance.
 
Are you saying battery and therefore cell voltage in graph is an estimate based on SoC (reported by BMS, I assume)?

I noticed cell voltage seemed to bounce up and down without much of a trend, while SoC in kWh has its good and bad days. Some are 7 kWh, some almost 16 kWh.

You also show energy getting close to "0", but I don't think cell voltage is at the lower knee.

So I wondered if that's because voltage doesn't reveal much. Also, if your operating voltage was high enough to accurately reset SoC or to maintain balance.
I am showing mean cell voltage - ie battery voltage divided by 16, because it would take too long to record the voltage for every cell. But the difference between the voltages of all the cells is usually less than 10mV, so that average figure is pretty close to the mark.

The dodgy number is remaining capacity, because sometimes it shows as being zero, when from the cell voltages it clearly isn't. But assuming it accurately records the amps being pumped in, the Ah, which I convert to KWh, should be a reasonable estimate at the top end.

So the chart may have some flaws, but I shared it, because I thought it provided food for thought.
 
It appears your total rarely if ever hits either 100% of 0%, like if consumption and production are fairly balanced for now. Will that drift to bouncing off 0% SoC during the winter, with system shutting down and eliminating consumption? Or is something else going on to keep it running (like generator, since you're off grid?)

I would expect an off-grid system to have excess generation (and frequently hit 100% SoC), or else shed loads so system never hits 0%.
 
It appears your total rarely if ever hits either 100% of 0%, like if consumption and production are fairly balanced for now. Will that drift to bouncing off 0% SoC during the winter, with system shutting down and eliminating consumption? Or is something else going on to keep it running (like generator, since you're off grid?)
I have just bought some extra panels, to carry me through the night in winter or even after cloudy day in summer.
I would expect an off-grid system to have excess generation (and frequently hit 100% SoC), or else shed loads so system never hits 0%.
I have two circuits: an offgrid circuit with a battery for night time use, and an ongrid circuit with just panels and an inverter for daytime use. When the battery gets too low I have been switching back to the ongrid circuit in the middle of the night, but hopefully with the new panels I won't need to do that.
 
One of the things I have learnt with this project is that (second hand) solar panels are very cheap, but everything associated with them – solar rails, clamps, cables, connectors, isolators and labour – are quite expensive. My main motivation at this stage is science: how much energy can I collect in my own back yard, and what can I do with it?

So I started out by simply leaning my second set of solar panels against the wall of the shed, as I had with the first.

Panels leaning.jpg

But it was getting into the summer, and the sun no longer stayed to the north of the shed as it did during the winter. It is amazing how much the ancients knew about the path of the sun through the sky which is no longer taught in school today. I blame it on cultural genocide by the early Christians. But whatever the reason, I was taught about Stonehenge but nothing about why it was there, so I am having to relearn all this stuff from scratch.

Anyway, the bottom line is that as we pass the equinox, the sun starts to rise and set in the southern sky (in the southern hemisphere) and so my solar panels leaning against the northern wall of the shed were in the shade of the shed and the eves of the shed roof in the early morning and late afternoon. I therefore had to move them away from the shed wall.

Panels lying.jpg

They are now leaning on a set of old kitchen chairs. It looks ugly, but they trap a lot of energy. In fact I now had so much energy that I had to revisit a derivative of Ohm’s law in order to harvest it.

Someone needs to write a textbook on this stuff, with everything you need to know from soup to nuts. The YouTube vids are great but each one gives just a little bit of the picture and the ordering is more random than systematic. In some cases, such as the OFG, the poster posts whatever is in his mind at the time, which may be something he wants to learn more about, or simply something that arrived in the post that day.

My learning was also correspondingly haphazard. My first stop was to learn about batteries, because that was the driver for the whole project. I then watched a couple of vids on charge controllers, but those I stumbled across were for 12 volts camping systems and they were mostly talking about MPPT. I had some detailed discussion here about choosing an inverter while thinking about power and current and voltage, but I didn’t have a corresponding discussion about charge controllers. I went out and bought a 40 amp one, and I thought that would be fine because I had four pairs of solar panels producing 5 amps each. And when I added four more pairs, I thought it would still be fine, because that added up to 40 amps.

I didn’t realise, until I started researching why the extra solar panels weren’t giving me any more power, that the 40 amps applies to the other side – the side connected to my 26 volt battery. 40 amps x 26 volts = 1040 watts: and that’s what I was getting. So I had to go out and buy another charge controller, and now the system is sweet.

EVCharts230314.jpg

I am harvesting, and using, close to 16 kWh per day. This is higher than I estimated I would need, and probably reflects that were are more casual about electricity consumption, now that it is free. I used to turn off the air con as soon as the house cooled down, but now I let it run all night. And each of the 304 Ah cells I purchased from Shenzhen Luyuan seems to be storing and disgorging close to 1kWh, while the voltage remains within a 3 – 3.4 volt range.

So the project has met and exceeded my expectations so far. My power consumption from the PoCo is close to zero, and with the energy I export from the front of the house during the day, my last account was a credit to me.
 

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