Offgrid Permit-Free Solar?

[ifo]

I saw

titled "New Upgrades for my Offgrid Permit-Free Solar System: I am now charging my Tesla without the Grid!" and am wondering if it is legal in my area. Looking at solar in my area, https://www.cityofmenifee.us/401/Solar-Photovoltaic-System, and there appears to be no provisions for any solar without going through lots of paperwork and fees. I remember in another video Will said it was legal where he lived but everybody would need to verify their own locations. I would have thought this would cause a lot of forum threads here but again I can't seem to find anything! Seems this should be a major topic and one of the first things every DIYer would look for. What am I missing?! Can somebody tell me if it is legal in my area and point me to the clause that would allow me to tell any code enforcement people to leave me alone?

 

[RCinFLA]

Depends on where you live. California is usually regulations central.

You are more likely to have to worry about utility company personnel or neighbors giving you trouble. Both can report you to county authorities for code violations.

PV panels are hard to hide.

 

[Prefersdirt]

I put panels out and have an off grid system and I live in a city. House is grid connected - I use the solar to power the freezer and be ready as backup in case grid goes down. My approach is better ask for forgiveness. if nothing is touching the grid, IMO the city has nothing to do with my life. Unfortunately, most government officials don't hold that view.

 

[Steve_S]

There seems to be some confusion here.
1) Permits & Licenses etc (terms vary pending where you are) are mostly related to Grid Connected system which can either be Battery Backed or Not but pushing power TO the Grid Infrastructure. There are many reasons for this but most importantly it is a safety issue so that noone gets killed.

2) Off-Grid depends:
2a) Off Grid as in no grid electrical system to property. Meaning a completely independent operation.
2b) Grid Connected as "Backup" but NOT pushing any power to Grid and no ability to do so. Basically, where the grid can supply power to recharge batteries, OR possibly just connected to a limited number of circuits. *Often this is used as a "Transition" as people build their systems over time, not everyone can afford to buy everything up front & install it.

Permits are RARELY required for any 100% Off Grid system... Although there are a FEW Regressive Regions that insist on such. Just like other RETARDED places that insist on a Solar Connection Fee if you have panels on your home, regardless if going to grid power or not. It is quite amazing that such STUPID occurs but it does.

The GOTCHA ! Insurances !
I swear, Insurance Companies can be a Blight on Humanity ! When it comes to insurance on your home/property they make their own rules and companies have all sorts of little tricks, requirements and conditions for everything. In reality the Vast Majority will want a properly installed system with Electrical Inspections in order to qualify for insurance. Grid Connected Systems that Feed-In are always required to be Fully Inspected & Insured (Some Power Co's will disconnect you without proof and then charge all sorts of $$$ for "stuff").

For example: I am 100% Offgrid, closest power pole is 1km away and that's Just Fine ! It was either $55K to get Grid Power or <$30K for full solar, the choice was too obvious. I did DIY my Systems and did have an Electrical Inspection and sign off, no problems at all with the Insurance Company. They DID want a properly Licensed Electrician to certify it for qualification. The ONE BONE OF CONTENTION ! They for some reason had No Problem that I had a Lead Acid Battery Bank but when I started installing LFP they got semi-stoopid doing the whole Lithium Chicken Little Dance... That got ridiculous to say the least... Has anyone ever enjoyed debating / arguing / educating an Insurance Co ? Not I, Say I !

Hope that helps a bit. Always check with your Local Folks regarding rules & regs. Every State/Province and Federal Gov have their own rules and then in some cases cities/towns have local ordinances. Also BE AWARE, that again depending on location etc, solar subsidies and programs like rebates etc MAY NOT APPLY to a 100% Off-Grid or Non-Feed-In Systems.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Any sort of residential electrical system is subject to the electrical codes enforced.

"All plans submitted for solar PV systems must comply with, and reference, the 2019 California Building Standards Code that became effective on January 1, 2020, including the 2019 California Residential Code (CRC), 2019 California Electric Code (CEC), 2019 California Plumbing Code (CPC), and 2019 California Mechanical Code (CMC) as appropriate including any amendments and/or errata."

Municipal/county requirements always trace back to the National Electric Code. If you put wiring in a house, you must comply with it.

You would best be served by speaking with a licensed electrician in your area.

 

[ifo]

Solar Photovoltaic System | City of Menifee

www.cityofmenifee.us

RCinFLA, oh yes, I fully expect my neighbors to report me to the code enforcement. This has happened many times over the decades for chickens, structures, dogs, etc. The code enforcement will certainly show up. They take pictures every time they come and keep notes forever. I get along with them but I need to follow the laws...

Prefersdirt, I certainly agree with your take on the government.

Steve_s, I fall under your 2B description. Just like Will in the video above. I realize if I place the panels on the roof or a ground mounted rack system I need permits. Placing them on the ground like Will did might also allow me to get around the paperwork. I supplied a link to my local city web page on solar. They seem to want permits for breathing air. I may be overwhelmed though. Perhaps I'm not reading it correctly and somebody who knows what to look for can tell me if I can do like Will has done in his video...?

 

[ifo]

Any sort of residential electrical system is subject to the electrical codes enforced.

"All plans submitted for solar PV systems must comply with, and reference, the 2019 California Building Standards Code that became effective on January 1, 2020, including the 2019 California Residential Code (CRC), 2019 California Electric Code (CEC), 2019 California Plumbing Code (CPC), and 2019 California Mechanical Code (CMC) as appropriate including any amendments and/or errata."

Municipal/county requirements always trace back to the National Electric Code. If you put wiring in a house, you must comply with it.

You would best be served by speaking with a licensed electrician in your area.

I want to put the panels on the ground and build a system like Will has done. Not connected to the grid. So I can learn and modify as I go. As such I don't want to file any paperwork or permits.

I will be putting the electrical equipment in a cargo container that has no wiring and is far away from the grid. The end goal is very similar to the above video. I want to be able to charge my vehicles when I transition.

Surely every DIY person has similar plans. However, figuring out whether the city allows us the freedom is damn near impossible. Talking to local officials? Everybody has opinions but nobody has facts. Us DIY types everywhere need to figure this out for their locality and be certain before the code enforcement people show up. My city which I don't want to touch since I think once touched will go after me is https://www.cityofmenifee.us/401/Solar-Photovoltaic-System. Any ideas?

 

[Steve_S]

Oivey, I looked at that link. Could that be anymore useless or what... Seems like they want a permit & spec on everything, regardless.
I have been to & lived in Highly Restrictive Nations but holy macaroni !
BOY, I am GLAD to live in a Free Nation that still has some Reasonable Common-Sense (fading fast but not bad yet).

I just hafta ask, RHETORICALLY.... Why are folks so fascinated with living in regions that are NOT Human Habitation Friendly ? Too Hot, not enough water and shaking ground that might just take you out... and then have to pay incredibly outrageous prices for everything as a bonus. People, such strange creatures.... go figure. Some still have the idiotic notion that they can bend Nature to their will & whims.... just too funny....

 

[sunshine_eggo]

I want to put the panels on the ground and build a system like Will has done. Not connected to the grid. So I can learn and modify as I go. As such I don't want to file any paperwork or permits.

I will be putting the electrical equipment in a cargo container that has no wiring and is far away from the grid. The end goal is very similar to the above video. I want to be able to charge my vehicles when I transition.

Surely every DIY person has similar plans. However, figuring out whether the city allows us the freedom is damn near impossible. Talking to local officials? Everybody has opinions but nobody has facts. Us DIY types everywhere need to figure this out for their locality and be certain before the code enforcement people show up. My city which I don't want to touch since I think once touched will go after me is https://www.cityofmenifee.us/401/Solar-Photovoltaic-System. Any ideas?

I already quoted from the page you linked. It's clear that permitting and code compliance is required. A shipping container would likely be treated no different than a shed with an electrical system in it.

Again, talk with a local electrician.

 

[ifo]

I already quoted from the page you linked. It's clear that permitting and code compliance is required. A shipping container would likely be treated no different than a shed with an electrical system in it.

Again, talk with a local electrician.

You quoted

"All plans submitted for solar PV systems must comply with, and reference, the 2019 California Building Standards Code that became effective on January 1, 2020, including the 2019 California Residential Code (CRC), 2019 California Electric Code (CEC), 2019 California Plumbing Code (CPC), and 2019 California Mechanical Code (CMC) as appropriate including any amendments and/or errata."

The key to Will's video was that his panels are not mounted. Because the solar panels are not mounted to the property he did not have to submit any plans. You could say this is a "loophole" around government overreach. If such loophole exists in my locality I will legally avoid all the above nonsense you quoted. It is obvious the local city wants to herd everybody through the above process but I'm not interested. I'm hoping the experts in these DIY forums can guide me through the legalese and show me the loophole I need. I don't want to talk and pay local electricians if I don't have to.

 

[A.Justice]

If you really want to be sure you can avoid code, get a small trailer and mount the system in there. Panels could be permanently mounted to a trailer, and extras could be pulled out and set on temporary mounts when needed.

Electric code is left up to interpretation a lot of the time, especially for things like that. Any solar system that comes into contact with your house's electrical wiring, whether it's on or off, is definitely going to be classified code. A technically "off-grid" system, that's permanently mounted to walls, and has permanent wiring, could be interpreted multiple ways by different inspectors.

However, a fully mobile system is harder to interpret as part of your home's wiring. If it's not mounted to any walls inside of a structure, doesn't use any existing wiring, can be moved around with wheels, and functions completely standalone, it will be much harder to claim that it needs to meet code. You could easily claim that the system was designed to power tools on remote job sites, provide power while camping, or to augment a vehicle's electrical system. None of those things require code.

(Disclaimer: I don't know anything about California code specifically, here in TN where I live, code enforcement is pretty lax, and is more or less non-existent for off-grid systems)

 

[sunshine_eggo]

If you really want to be sure you can avoid code, get a small trailer and mount the system in there. Panels could be permanently mounted to a trailer, and extras could be pulled out and set on temporary mounts when needed.

I gotta believe this is the best solution - batteries and inverters in a trailer and all panels laying on the ground or on temporary mounts.

 

[ifo]

I gotta believe this is the best solution - batteries and inverters in a trailer and all panels laying on the ground or on temporary mounts.

For sure!

Still, we all need to know the law. We need to be able to do as Will has done and be able to defend ourselves. We can't let solar slip out of our control. This thread appears to be the first that has actually looked at what Will has done and asked how do we repeat it on our own turf!

 

[sendero]

It just all depends on where you live. I live outside of city limits in TX. The county is my jurisdiction for such matters. The county cares about sewer/septic and doesn't about anything else. I can do electrical wiring, plumbing, whatever - no one cares unless is has to do with sewer/septic.