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One active balancer for two parallel banks

Primeral

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Jan 9, 2021
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Location
San Antonio, TX, USA
I'm trying to find out the proper wiring scheme for connecting two parallel banks to the active balancer, if that's even possible. It's good for up to 24s.

Relevant specs:
8S2P 24V
2x Daly Smart BMS
1x JK-BMS 2A Active Balancer
24V to 48V boost converter to power the JK

Since the active balancer only has one ground lead, and a reading from Cell 8 to Cell 9 will not result in a proper voltage reading, is the solution to either get a 2nd active balancer or simply unplug the balancer from one battery bank to the other and balance them separately? Sorry if this has been asked before, I did try searching this forum + Google.
 
I'd pair up your cells. Run 2 parallel then 8 series. You'll only be using 8 channels of your balancer.
 
Thanks for the suggestion I read several threads on this forum and decided on 8S2P to have individual cell management ability. I also get to pull an 8S string if I need to and still have 24V, so I'm still operational.
 
I've got a more basic question actually... Is it even possible to run a BMS (that has onboard active balancing) AS WELL as an Active Balancer, on the same bank?... At first glance this seems to be straightforward but on second thoughts, think about this example
  • bank average voltage is 3.4
  • Cell 6 is at 3.3, Cell 8 is at 3.6.
  • BMS detects this, immediately draw from Cell 8 to charge Cell 6. In doing so, it is now feeding 3.6V to cell 6.
  • Active Balancer now sees 3.6V on Cell 6 (being fed by the BMS), Active balancer goes "ok cool! nothing to do here", does nothing. Or worse, now that it sees Cell 8 getting power drawn from it and Cell 6 is at a higher voltage, it thinks it needs to do something to move power from Cell 6 over to Cell 8, effectively undoing what the BMS is doing.
Has anyone actually ran this type of setup and does it cause conflicts like above?
 
Active balancers shuttle charge (amps) from the highest voltage cell to the lowest. . BMS's typically use resistors to burn off extra amps from the highest cell.
 
I run Chargery BMS' with Passive Balancing on all of my packs in the bank. Passive is only enabled During Charge starting at 3.35v and set for 30mv difference allowable. I also have a QNBBM-8S Active Balancer on each pack that takes of the heavy lifting to level up the cells which typically end up at 10mv or less differential. I use the Passive on Charge because it helps to "burn off" the high cells (runners) as the cells reach full state allowing the rest to fill faster and saturate.

Passive Balancancing only burns off Hi Voltage from cells. Active transfers from hi to lo cells.
Passive Balancing is not that effective on Large Capacity cells. it is primarily intended for lower capacity cells such as 18650 or 32650 sized types.

BTW: You are charging TOO HIGH ! 3.6 and your wasting time & energy.
You can charge LFP to 3,.65 all day long (that's not good for them) and the moment you stop charge, they will start to settle, within 1 hour they'll be at 3.550 +/- and in 2 hours at 3.500+/- That is NORMAL. The Voltage Curve is 3.000-3.450 Above & Below that voltage represents about 7% of total capacity.

Here is my Midnite Solar Classic-200 Charge profile for 24V system, Inverter/Charger setting similar.
All equipment is Voltage Corrected & Calibrated (VERY IMPORTANT) see link in my signature on how to do it.
Divide Values X2 for 12V. Multiply X2 for 48V.
Absorb: 28.2 for 15 minutes (3.525vpc) (some call this boost)
Equalize: OFF
Float 27.9V (3.4875vpc)
MIn Volts: 22.0 (2.750vpc)
Max Volts: 28.7 (3.5875vpc)
Rebulk Voltage: 27.7 (3.4625vpc)
End Amps: 14A (*1)

This get's the bank charged to full with high amps (Constant Current) and then float (Constant Voltage) tops off so the cells are on average between 3.475-3.500. I am running 7/24/365 so float is used up by the Inverter + provides whatever the packs will take to top off.
(*1): End Amps is calculated from the Highest AH Battery Pack in a Bank. IE: 200AH X 0.05 = 10A 280AH X 0.05 = 14A.
** Coulumbic Efficiency for LFP is 99%

Hope it helps, good luck
 
BMS's typically use resistors to burn off extra amps from the highest cell.
Not all of them, can't assume that. Mine has an active balancer and even tells you the exact balancing current, and which cell it's taking power from and which cell is being topped up.

BTW: You are charging TOO HIGH ! 3.6 and your wasting time & energy.
Yup I know.. oh sorry I should've mentioned the numbers I gave above was just to illustrate an example. That said though, my OVP threshold is set at 3.6v, in my particular use case at least, the bank never seems to charge charge at the same rate.. the cells are as matched as they could be but one cell will always hit OVP before the rest. So I'll virtually never hit float charge cycle, because one of the cells would've reached 100% (which as far as the BMS is concerned, means the whole bank's at 100%) whilst the remaining 15 cells are probably still in their bulk charge cycle approaching 90%, and since the BMS detects the bank as full, the whole bank immediately goes to work and gets into the discharge cycle. Likewise on the way down, one cell will reach UVP threshold just a bit before every other cell, and BMS cuts off whole bank immediately and goes into the balancing cycle.
 
but one cell will always hit OVP before the rest. So I'll virtually never hit float charge cycle, because one of the cells would've reached 100%
What you are describing here is a very typical case of a Runner cell, this isn't new and is not unusual from bulk cells. A "high runner", will start to run usually around the 3.425-3.475 +/- a bit, They can shoot up by 1mv per AH of of cell capacity quite quickly. IE 200mv for a 200AH cell. There are also "lo runners", which will drop faster than the rest below the 2.850-2.800 these do pop up but less frequently.

A Culprit Lurking in the Open ! 2P.
1) Unmatched cells can wreak havoc in parallel cell configurations.
2) the parallel connections between cells has to be perfect ! No Burrs or ridges on busbars, no grease, wax or oils. Clean with alcohol, lightly/gently sand with 600 grit (emery cloth is good too, just to soft scrub teh surface really), wipe down again with alcohol. apply extremely thin OxGuard if non-tinned bars.
3) sense lead placement MUST be correct and very good as well, even the slightest oil/wax etc can throw them off.

OVP is Over Voltage Protection, this is not Cell Differential, Chargery BMS calls this "Diff of cell Voltage" in their settings, others use similar terms.

The trick is to not allow the runners to take off as such and to find that sweet spot where the cell differential is not to the cutoff point with the Bulk Charging. Then to get float to kick in at what we need to see as "100% SOC" (it isn't 3.650, it is 3.500 tops), 3.475Vpc is most commonly used). As I show in my charge profile, I Float 27.9V (3.4875vpc) & Rebulk Voltage: 27.7 (3.4625vpc), keeping it pretty tight and I'm in float by noon usually if not sooner. Float is only Constant Voltage which is perfect for keeping cells topped at "our designated 100%" (in my case, 3.48Vpc).

NOTE: Many BMS' will see the Lowest Voltage Cell and calculate Pack SOC based on that (safest). Some "seem" to base it off the Hi Cell in the pack (bad idea_ others take an aggregate of all cells monitored (can fool you too, because of differentials and imbalance would be hidden). These are not the same "highly specific" type of BMS as used in EV's and such, so there are many compromises.

"our designated 100%"
This is where a great deal of confusion about SOC comes from. Many think that 100% means 3.650Vpc, it is not, that is the Max Allowable Voltage. The 2.500Vpc Low Threshold is also the Maximum Low Allowable, this is not a working voltage. As stated, you can charge the cells to that for hours, the moment you stop charging they start settling towards their "Working Voltage". That is LFP and the way it is. Similar applies slightly differently across other Lithium chemistries as well. LFP in general is conservatively 3.000-3.400 with 3.200 being the nominal voltage that everything is calculated o(like AH, kWh etc)

Our Designated 100% can be 3.450 and our 0% could be 2.900 and that would still give you about 87-90% which is the norm, as most leave off that 10% top/bottom collectively. With perfect Matched, Batched & Binned cells you could do 2.750-3.500 comfortably tight with little differntial between cells.
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I have a 18 cell 280Ah pack in parallel with 2 100Ah cells and 2 24volt BattleBorn batteries and a 5 amp active cell balancer.

It works great but you need to series and parallel the whole pack. Meaning all terminals at the same voltage in both packs need to be tied/wired together.
 
My charge controller/inverter will go up to ~62 volts so that is why I can go up to 18 cells. Each cell is about 1kwh so adding 2 cells was a economical way to do it get more capacity without having to buy a whole new set of cells. It planned this from the start and it has worked. There are a few Balancers available that go above 16 cells that are still inexpensive.

I don't see packs with these current designs getting over 18 cells because once you get above that NEC requires a lot more shielding for protection.(though electrical tape is good for 600volts per layer....hmmm)
 
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