Oppertunity to purchase used CALB 200ah cells

[steviep19]

I might be able to purchase 42 of these CALB cells

They're advertised as LifePO4 200ah.

They're not new, they state they're 3 years old, always had a BMS were cycled regularly looks like they could have been from an EV. I'm still waiting on a responce.

They're asking $50 each. Hoping they throw in the bus bars.

I run 24v, so that would come out to ~1000ah @ 24v for $2000.

I'm thinking this is a really good deal, does anyone agree/disagree?

 

[snoobler]

I purchased about 10kWh of 40A CALB cells from a Gen2 Prius Plug-in-hybrid conversion. Most cells test at just under 30Ah.

I would not trust that the cells were treated well in the application. I would not consider this purchase unless I was okay with the risk of taking a 100% loss, and that picture of a jumble of cells just tells me someone doesn't give a shit. You can almost count on these things being routinely charged to 100% SoC and discharged to near empty.

Personally, I'd pass, especially when you can get NEW 272/280Ah cells for about $110 each delivered. If I randomly tested 5-10 of them for capacity (90% or better) AND all 42 of them meet IR spec, then I'd consider it.

 

[steviep19]

Snoobler,

I didn't realize I could get them for about $110 new. When they get back to me I'll see if I can get some sort of guarantee in writing if I do go for them. But maybe it would be best to go new.

 

[Fallingaway]

I purchased used cells once and they were ok if I stated between the knees but, I’ll never do it again and I wouldn’t suggest anyone else unless you can actually do some testing first or if it’s just a small 4s build to tinker with. You’ll regret it either right away or shortly afterwards. There’s a reason someone wants to sell them....

 

[snoobler]

Mine were $108 in November. It's gone up a little bit, but between these two sources:

Introducing the New & Improved Shenzhen Luyuan Technology Co.

Dear Members of DIYSolarForum, With the experience I gained while working with Shenzhen Xuba Electronic Co., which I am infintely grateful for. I was introduced to a group of very enthusuiastic and most helpul people which helped me to grow & improve my own knowledge which helps me to better...

diysolarforum.com

and

@Michael B Caro in his 280Ah thread

pricing is favorable and quality has been good overall. My cells tested within 3-5% of rated, and I'm tickled.

I ordered 9 cells for an 8S battery. Better to have a spare than deal with issues with a DOA/damaged or low quality cell and wait for shipping.

 

[steviep19]

I'll look into it. at 280 AH for a that price, and with the gentle cycling I do they would probably last forever.

I've had some good experiences with used battery packs.

I currently have 4x of the BYD 24v Used battery packs that I picked up from battery hookup.. They're the only used cells I've owned, and they've been working perfect for about a year now. But at least with the BYD packs you know they were used in a professional setting, even if they were hard cycled.

I think I just saw the 1000 AH for $50 thinking I could talk him down to $1600 for the lot and got excited about the capacity not the longevity.

 

[snoobler]

Battery hookup at least does some meaningful testing on them. I wouldn't consider that experience to translate to this situation.

 

[steviep19]

I've extremely happy with my purchase from battery hookup. I have bought from them since, and will in the future.

That makes sense, used from them and used from some guy on the internet is a totally different thing.

Thanks for talking me down from my impulse buy.....lol

 

[snoobler]

Happy to help. I'm prone to it too.

I just bought $2700 worth of panels from SanTan for grid-tie BEFORE I did the research on how crappy net metering is with my utility company...

10kW of panels produces about 60% of my annual needs, but it only reduces my bill by 32% due to excessive solar fees. They base the fee on your peak 30 minute period of the year. For me the fee was around $70/month.

 

[steviep19]

I ran into the same problem in my area as well. They charge 14 cents/kwh for electricity, but only credit 6 cents/kwh generated. Made it not even worth it for me. I instead went the DIY route, cost less so far, and I offset more of my electric usage, and have battery backup for blackouts.

 

[Hedges]

I ran into the same problem in my area as well. They charge 14 cents/kwh for electricity, but only credit 6 cents/kwh generated. Made it not even worth it for me. I instead went the DIY route, cost less so far, and I offset more of my electric usage, and have battery backup for blackouts.

Can you install more PV than you need, like 2.5 times as much?
I put PV generated power at $0.05/kWh (amortized cost of system over 10 years.)
2.5x consumption x $0.05/kWh = $0.125/kWh of actual consumption.
Hmm, only slightly cheaper than their $0.14 price.

Of course, some of what you produce, you use immediately. So don't need 2.5x. But hard to get exactly correct.
May be able to come in under $0.05
Utility rates will climb.
Most of system should last much longer than 10 years. Maybe replace inverter, and amortized cost over 20 years gets down to $0.03/kWh.

My net metering deal credits/charges $0.15, $0.30, $0.45/kWh depending on time of day.
So producing three kWh at cost of $0.05 each and credit of $0.15 each during low time pays for one kWh at high time. Savings of 67% over just buying from the utility.

What is your "DIY" route? Battery storage to avoid export, save for later?
What do you figure it costs per kWh to store in batteries?

 

[Pyke13]

I paid $93 per cell delivered for 272ah lishen cells. That’s based on 8 getting delivered to the uk. I think there $66 each cell from Shenzhen shouhuzhe on alibaba

 

[steviep19]

Can you install more PV than you need, like 2.5 times as much?
I put PV generated power at $0.05/kWh (amortized cost of system over 10 years.)
2.5x consumption x $0.05/kWh = $0.125/kWh of actual consumption.
Hmm, only slightly cheaper than their $0.14 price.

Of course, some of what you produce, you use immediately. So don't need 2.5x. But hard to get exactly correct.
May be able to come in under $0.05
Utility rates will climb.
Most of system should last much longer than 10 years. Maybe replace inverter, and amortized cost over 20 years gets down to $0.03/kWh.

My net metering deal credits/charges $0.15, $0.30, $0.45/kWh depending on time of day.
So producing three kWh at cost of $0.05 each and credit of $0.15 each during low time pays for one kWh at high time. Savings of 67% over just buying from the utility.

What is your "DIY" route? Battery storage to avoid export, save for later?
What do you figure it costs per kWh to store in batteries?

There's a limit to how much you can deploy in my area. It's based off your electric usage. The city provides the electricity, so their not as flexible.

Yes the DIY route for me was Battery Storage no connection to the grid. No net metering. I have about 6 kw of solar panels, and 20 kwh of battery storage. I purchased the BYD modules when they were about $275 per module from batteryhookup, They've averaged about 3.5 to 3.7 kwh's each.

I have an ATC that switches between grid and PV if the batteries get too low, and UPS's to bridge the gap on things like TV, PC, Alarm clock lol

I don't have a cost breakdown, but there is the added bonus of it acting as a generator in case of power outage, for the critical loads, like Furnace, lighting Internet.

I also drive a Hyundai Kona EV, so in the summer when there's lots of sun i charge the car during the day if I'm home (I work from home during the pandemic) of the 120v charger, at 1.4 kw.

I also bought a 20 gallon hot water tank, and a 600w 24v water heating element, and use excess solar to heat that water heater as a pre-stage tank. That works fairly well, as in the summer I can heat 20 gallons up to 140 degrees 2x.

 

[Hedges]

Back when I did mine, it was 200% of usage. My pool was very thoroughly filtered that month.

"No connection to grid" (except transfer switch), cycle batteries.

"Zero export" grid tie systems which backfeed the grid as far as your household loads but don't send current out the meter seem better to me. Up to 100% of PV watts get used, plus additional drawn from grid. But I have net metering, best for my case.

Your setup can work so long as batteries can hold up long enough with whatever cycling they need to do. The claimed thousands of deep cycles seems sufficient.
$275 for 3.5 kW? A fraction the cost of my AGM. Used vs. new prices, of course.

 

[steviep19]

Back when I did mine, it was 200% of usage. My pool was very thoroughly filtered that month.

"No connection to grid" (except transfer switch), cycle batteries.

"Zero export" grid tie systems which backfeed the grid as far as your household loads but don't send current out the meter seem better to me. Up to 100% of PV watts get used, plus additional drawn from grid. But I have net metering, best for my case.

Your setup can work so long as batteries can hold up long enough with whatever cycling they need to do. The claimed thousands of deep cycles seems sufficient.
$275 for 3.5 kW? A fraction the cost of my AGM. Used vs. new prices, of course.

It does all depend on how the BYD batteries hold up. They went back 1 year to calculate our energy usage.

I only cycle the BYD batteries between 25v - 27v. Due to the size of the bank the current draw is only 4 - 10 amps per battery when discharging, but these BYD packs can really handle high current quite well.

I did see those Grid-Tied inverters with a limiter, but I don't think they were UL listed, and I'm not sure of any inspector that would allow that. Inspectors seem to be more OK with a Critical loads panel and an ATS, since it's completely isolated from the grid. I modeled my setup off that of a generator, which was my original goal. Solar backup generator.

 

[Michael B Caro]

I paid $93 per cell delivered for 272ah lishen cells. That’s based on 8 getting delivered to the uk. I think there $66 each cell from Shenzhen shouhuzhe on alibaba

Shenzhen Shouzhuzhe is out of Lishen cells right now. Also, the price of the cell is kind of irrelevant with the way shipping varies from supplier to supplier. The cost you really want to look at is "landed cost". The cost per cell you pay to get them to your doorstep. I think they said he biggest cell they have in stock is 202ah.
I just spent 3 days talking to dozens of suppliers looking for the best value I could find based on a high volume of purchases.

 

[Pyke13]

didn’t know they were out of 272 cells, the $93 is what I paid per cell landed based on buying 8 cells. That also includes $25 brexit tax, I’m guessing to cover the extra paperwork involved. That was at the start of December, they were loads cheaper than everyone else also the only seller shipping to the uk at that time.
the fact they were cheapest, are now out of cells, aren’t great at after sales service and I’m still waiting on delivery doesn’t make me any less nervous. I must be close to wearing out the refresh button on the couriers web site from checking multiple times a day

 

[Michael B Caro]

didn’t know they were out of 272 cells, the $93 is what I paid per cell landed based on buying 8 cells. That also includes $25 brexit tax, I’m guessing to cover the extra paperwork involved. That was at the start of December, they were loads cheaper than everyone else also the only seller shipping to the uk at that time.
the fact they were cheapest, are now out of cells, aren’t great at after sales service and I’m still waiting on delivery doesn’t make me any less nervous. I must be close to wearing out the refresh button on the couriers web site from checking multiple times a day

I tried to do business with Shenzhen shouhuzhe once. Paula Li was probably the #1 hardest person to communicate with at any of the suppliers I have talked to. I placed some orders with her and after 5 tries she still had not figured out how to do the invoice so that it would give me a US bank to send the funds to. I finally just placed the order with another supplier.

 

[steviep19]

Snoobler,

I can't thank you enough for talking me out of purchasing those cells. I'm pretty sure i'm going to purchase 32 of these Schenzhen cells. With shipping they only came out to $68 per cell. I worked with Selina Le. She was very proficient getting the order ready, and helping me though the whole process. Just waiting on my Photo ID to clear so I can pay via Credit card.

 

[snoobler]

That sounds like a good deal for Lishen cells from Xuba. My 280Ah Eve cells were about $110 delivered. At that price, you're $105/kWh, which is pretty exceptional.

Make sure shipping is DDP - includes customs fees and delivery to your door.

Download the PDF (video is only an overview and leaves out some details) and prep for top balancing:

Top Balancing LiFePo4 Cells using a low cost benchtop power supply.

To get the paper, click on the orange at the top of this page. This is a tutorial with detailed steps on how I top-balance my LiFePO4 Cells using a low-cost benchtop power supply. To get the tutorial, click on the orange "Download" button...

diysolarforum.com

Get your BMS(s) on order so they're here before your cells.