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Orion Jr.2 BMS thread

The orion will default to a certain SOC when connected. I think its 100%, but not sure. From there it will just start counting AHs. You have the option of configuring "drift" points. Where the BMS will move the SOC to a specific value over 30 seconds or so. The simplest version of this is a 100% voltage trigger (whatever you plan to regularly charge to).

In that same menu you can also set charged/discharged SOC which is only used to run pack state of health calculations.

View attachment 33096

With regards to the relay outputs, you can disable them, and just use the BMS to report data to your charger and inverter.
Ok thanks. Let me make sure I have this straight. If I want the BMS to report 85% SOC as 100% SOC I need to do that with a drift point. The SOC settings tabs are just used for pack health calculation.
 
Ahaha I just made a video for you. And I cover this topic in it. I’ll get that posted tonight
Great. I'm hooking my batteries up tonight but won't have my HES working until tomorrow. I'm going to charge the pack to 56 volts tonight and call it good. I have to cut the lug off my 4/0 positive cable to install the HES. I bought new lugs and a hammer crimper that can crimp 4/0
 
FWIW Andrew replied to me the other day and I asked about the float feature as well as getting the latest beta's out for release (which includes precharge). He mentioned maybe separating the float feature out from advanced features so we can use it without turning on advanced features (that's what's preventing me from documenting it). And also said 4-6 weeks for software release.
 
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FWIW Andrew replied to me the other day and I asked about the float feature as well as getting the latest beta's out for release (which includes precharge). He mentioned maybe separating the float feature out from advanced features so we can use it without turning on advanced features (that's what's preventing me from documenting it). And also said 4-6 weeks for software release.
Can you explain the float feature? Not sure it applies to my Schneider equipment since I don't believe the BMS does anything other than charge on or charge off. I don't think it controls current on the Schneider stuff (although I am sure it could if Schneider would make the Xanbus stuff public).
 
Can you explain the float feature? Not sure it applies to my Schneider equipment since I don't believe the BMS does anything other than charge on or charge off. I don't think it controls current on the Schneider stuff (although I am sure it could if Schneider would make the Xanbus stuff public).

You're right it only applies to equipment that pays attention to the CVL on the CAN Bus.
The float feature basically lets me sort of create a 3-stage charge profile vs. the terrible 1-stage profile. It allows you to adjust CVL based on SoC, cell voltage, time, CCL, etc ... this way I can get it up to 56.8v for a while and it'll slowly back down to 54.4. And that means the BMS will have an appropriate chance to do some balancing.
 
Anyone know if the Victron BP48 battery disconnect can be controlled by the Orion Jr.2? It has an Lion setting that looks promising (see below). I ordered one from Amazon. Looks like a good alternative to a contractor/relay. I'll report back on my results.



"Li-ion mode: • Connect the load disconnect output of the VE.Bus BMS to pin 2-1. The load is disconnected immediately when the load disconnect output of the VE.Bus BMS switches from ‘high’ to ‘free floating’ (due to battery cell under voltage, over voltage or over temperature). The under voltage thresholds and alarm output of the BP are inactive in this mode."
 
The BP is specifically documented to NOT support being a relay between an inverter and the battery -- due to, at least, inrush current.
 
You can drive external relays with the Orions multipurpose and charge/discharge enable outputs. These are limited to a specific current, and are open drain. If you need the opposite logic, or more control current, you can invert the output with a FET, or use a smaller relay.
 
The BP is specifically documented to NOT support being a relay between an inverter and the battery -- due to, at least, inrush current.
Thanks. Their manual and datasheet are silent on this but I dug further and you are correct. Not sure I see how anyone could make use of it. Thankfully I ordered it with Amazon Prime so I can easily return it.
 
Yes. Those are ferrite rings and they are intended to reduce RF Interference generated by the Inverter radiating out the DC wiring.
Thanks. Shall I put them on the DC battery cables coming into the inverter or the DC cables from the breaker and negative buss to the inverter.
 
I was hoping to get some advice from you guys about how to finalize my Orion Jr.2/Lischen 16s battery build.

I have full CANBUS control over my Schneider Conext equipment. It will shut off the chargers on max cell voltage, over current, temperature faults, etc. Same with the inverter on low cell voltage. The chargers and inverter come back on automatically when the fault is cleared. My inverter has low voltage disconnect and high voltage cut off. I plan to set those to kick in before the setting on the BMS.

Orion says I need another layer of protection and recommends that I install a relay/contactor. So I purchased the Victron Battery Protect 48 only to find out that it cannot be used between an inverter and batteries.

My equipment has a remote power off function (RPO). When the RPO is activated the inverter shuts down and the charge controller goes to hibernate. Very little power is being consumed by the equipment at this point. I am going to test it later today to see exactly how much power is being drawn in this state. The Victron BP48 has a BMS input and can be configured to activate the RPO without being between the inverter and batteries. I could also do the same thing with a much cheaper relay and return the BP48 to Amazon.

What are your thoughts on using RPO function instead of a relay/contactor as the last line of defense? If the RPO is activated the inverter and charge controller have to be manually turned back on. If I go this route I am going to teach my neighbor who has a key how to do this. I believe the relay/contactor option would automatically turn my equipment back on once the BMS fault clears. There are pros and cons to both options.

As much as I hate lead acid batteries they sure were a lot easier to set up.
 
If the system will run unattended for a considerable length of time, having a disconnect is probably called for. Set up the disconnect so that it requires human intervention to reconnect. Setup a pre-charge resistor for manual use. Then whoever operates it, needs to know to pre-charge the inverter before closing the disconnect. That will let you use the battery protect.

In the event of a charging system failure, and the pack gets pulled low enough for the RPO to be triggered, what kind of standby power consumption are you looking at? If your pack is at 5% SOC, how long will it take to reach zero? I have seen packs destroyed by 30mA status LEDS which bypassed a disconnect after a system failure. It took a couple months, but the pack was stone cold dead.
 
If the system will run unattended for a considerable length of time, having a disconnect is probably called for. Set up the disconnect so that it requires human intervention to reconnect. Setup a pre-charge resistor for manual use. Then whoever operates it, needs to know to pre-charge the inverter before closing the disconnect. That will let you use the battery protect.

In the event of a charging system failure, and the pack gets pulled low enough for the RPO to be triggered, what kind of standby power consumption are you looking at? If your pack is at 5% SOC, how long will it take to reach zero? I have seen packs destroyed by 30mA status LEDS which bypassed a disconnect after a system failure. It took a couple months, but the pack was stone cold dead.
Pre-charge wasn't even on my radar. Is that to protect the contactor from excessive current? My plan was to have my last line of protection kick in well above 5% SOC. Actually my neighbor will be my 4th and last line of protection by kicking off the 250a battery breaker. Pre-charging the inverter is way above her pay grade.

After my wife is done with her Zoom conference I'll get the current draw with the equipment in RPO mode.

The only charging system problems I've had over the last 6 years is when my panels get covered with snow. My neighbor bailed me out last year and kicked off the breaker when my Trojan's were at 9% SOC. I'm installing 6 vertical panels on my South wall to remedy that problem.
 
Pre-charge wasn't even on my radar. Is that to protect the contactor from excessive current?

Yeah, its just a resistor of sufficient size which bridges the disconnect. Flip it on for a minute before manually clearing the fault, and the Orion will them turn the disconnect back on. After that flip the switch for the resistor off.

The resistor allows the inverter capacitors to charge up slowly, eliminating the current spike when first connecting the inverter.
 
Of course the BP would only be switching your inverter (they are one way), so it won't protect the pack if your charge controller fails high overcharging the pack.

There are some gigavac relays which use only 8mA at 48V. You could drive one of these with a mosfet amp circuit from the BMS discharge enable output.
 
Of course the BP would only be switching your inverter (they are one way), so it won't protect the pack if your charge controller fails high overcharging the pack.

There are some gigavac relays which use only 8mA at 48V. You could drive one of these with a mosfet amp circuit from the BMS discharge enable output.
Actually I was thinking of using a relay or the BP to trigger the Inverter RPO which also puts the CC and other equipment into Hibernate mode. Manual intervention is required to turn both the inverter and CC back on.
 
Sure, if that's an acceptable risk mediation for you, it works.

The only real issue is a major component failure that results in a passive drain even if the gear is powered off. Not a common occurrence with fully digital equipment. Some inverters have their own internal relay which disconnects the power circuitry. I haven't seen it happen with an MPPT controller, but pwm units have rarely failed as a short circuit between PV and battery.

I would suggest wiring it such that if the BMS locks up, that the system defaults to hibernate/off. If I recall the BMS outputs will go floating when a fault occurs, and will be grounded when enabled.

You do need to evaluate your standby usage. You need enough extra capacity that the bank won't get drawn down to dead before someone can intervene in the event of a power down.
 
Precharge is coming in the next version of the Orion BMS firmware (~1 month).
 
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