Orion Jr.2 BMS thread

iRondo

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I also have an Orion but not a Schneider inverter. I would be happy to answer questions about the Orion.
Thanks, I don't have the Schneider inverter either. I am just in the middle of the longest, slowest LFP build project on the planet, I'm sure lol. (I have major issues getting parts/supplies).
Anyway, I am in the configuration phase now and everything is functioning fine on the top end of the charge cycle but I have been unable to get my contactor to trip on the bottom end of the discharge cycle. I've got the setting at 3.1V/cell for testing but have run it right down to 2.75V/cell and that's where my inverter shuts off but that has nothing to do with the BMS or the contactor.
My set up is as follows.
400ah @ 12V LFP feeding the AC system via a 3KW Go Power inverter and being charged by 680W of solar and a Stirling BB1260.
400ah @ 12V FLA feeding all DC loads and being charged by 180W of solar, a 150A alternator and a 60A Xantrex Truecharge charger.

I've tested the BlueSea MLB 7700 contactor by applying 12V to the relay and the contactor opens as it should but I've measured the voltage when expecting the contactor to kick and the voltage from the Orion to the relay only reaches ~600mv and nothing happens.

This, and I am also confused by the SoC drift point concept
 

cinergi

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The Orion relay outputs don't apply voltage. They connect the lead to ground (so it's the "negative" side). Note that the Orion Jr can only had 175ma of current max. They normally are also configured to hold the relay closed/connected and release under fault conditions. I'd need to look if they can invert that logic (I don't remember).

SoC drift is just SoC correction. You use this to force the SoC to a certain value when your max/min cell hits a particular threshold. e.g. if a cell hits 3.50 you can adjust SoC to 100%. This is needed because the SoC will "drift" from reality over time due to accumulating inaccuracies in measuring the current flow.
 

Ampster

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the Orion to the relay only reaches ~600mv and nothing happens.
You may need a small relay that takes less than 150 mAmps to close contacts. Also I set up my contactor to be on when it gets signal that everything is okay then it closes. That way it is fail safe. Some outputs can be inverted. Also, as @cinergi noted, they are reference to ground, in other words they provide positive current and your other wire should be the common negative. I have the Orion on my 48 volt pack but use Overkill on some small 12 volt packs. To work correctly you should connect the rest of the Orion sense wires to the last (4th) positive terminal. That is something like 14 additional sense wires.
I also agree with everything Cinergi said about drift. My SOC can drift, but I know it will reset to 100% if I charge it to the target set on the BMS. Even though my settings only use 80% of capacity, when I am at 3.5 volts for example I want the BMS to read 100%.
 
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Hedges

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I've tested the BlueSea MLB 7700 contactor by applying 12V to the relay and the contactor opens as it should but I've measured the voltage when expecting the contactor to kick and the voltage from the Orion to the relay only reaches ~600mv and nothing happens.

I haven't found specs for that contactor. How much current does the coil draw? (I have some relays with massive current to close, small current to hold.)

Is that within BMS drive capability? If not, need to boost with transistor or another relay. (As Ampster just posted. I take too much time.)
With control wire from BMS disconnected, test it's operation.
I see cinergi's comment. But "grounding" it wouldn't drive 600 mV?

Failsafe or disconnected when no power as Ampster said is also good.
 

cinergi

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iRondo

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SoC drift is just SoC correction. You use this to force the SoC to a certain value when your max/min cell hits a particular threshold. e.g. if a cell hits 3.50 you can adjust SoC to 100%. This is needed because the SoC will "drift" from reality over time due to accumulating inaccuracies in measuring the current flow.
Excellent, thank you! Simple language for a simple guy LOL
 

iRondo

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The Orion relay outputs don't apply voltage. They connect the lead to ground (so it's the "negative" side). Note that the Orion Jr can only had 175ma of current max. They normally are also configured to hold the relay closed/connected and release under fault conditions. I'd need to look if they can invert that logic (I don't remember).
Right, I should have known that. Also, I have my MLB7700 connected between the common negative busbar and the shunt. I know most people put it on the positive side but I put it on the negative side to avoid having to use a second contactor. Should I change this?
 

Luthj

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You can invert the logic in the Orion software. However not all of the outputs are watchdog timer backed, so take that into account if they drive mission critical control items. The main enable/disable outputs are backed by the watchdog timer, so a internal fault will have them default to high impedance.

You can easily use a MOSFET to invert the output. The orion pin drives the mosfet, and the mosfet is switching the positive feed. For smaller loads this also has the advantage of using almost no current to keep the mosfet closed.
 

jacky4566

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I have a question about these BMS. If I want to run 16S2P (100AH each cell)
Do I need 2 BMS units or 1 and tie all the parallel cells together?
Does each bank get its own current sensor or can they share?
 

Ampster

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You would need two BMSs for 16S2P.
If you tied all the parallel cells together then it would be a 2P16S pack and one BMS would work. That is how my pack is configured. In that case you only need one current sensor because it is only one pack.
 

cinergi

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Yeah I went with 2p16s (a single battery) so I didn't incur the cost of two Orions & contactors.
 

shorawitz

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So this thread hasn't been updated in a while it seems. I've done a lot of testing with other BMS' and I'm pretty much coming around to the realization that the Orion might be the way to go. I've tried Chinese products (JK branded BLE and RS-485) and the quality is what you'd expect. The BLE works pretty good - the RS-485 not so much. Support is the main problem with these - language barrier is also a problem. I've also tried Daly BLE+RS-485 and it works OK, but I'm concerned about support and I'm not really interested in having the BMS inline with the current path. I'd rather have a "Battery Monitor System" than a battery management system. Lastly, I bought a GWL PCM board along with their BCC module which front-ends the PCM (monitor/relay control) with a web server for IP monitoring and control. EPIC FAILURE! The CPM board shuts down every day so monitoring the battery becomes impossible and GWL is useless for support since they are 1/2 way around the globe from U.S.A and the language barrier. I've ask for a refund, but we'll see. This one was the most expensive and I even purchased their extended warranty for 5 years - I feel like that was a waste and I can only get email support and that is asynchronous and often several days apart for responses. I have my own software I've mentioned in other threads on this forum that I use to monitor my Schneider equipment as well as whichever BMS I choose. I have the software integrated with Home Assistant. I can monitor and control my equipment using that application (which is very well polished) instead of writing my own or using multiple vendors software to accomplish the complete solution.

So this gets me to my questions regarding the Orion Jr2. How is support? Has anyone opened a case with them and how long was it before your first response as well as the time span to get a solution? I know this is going to be the most expensive solution (hence my last stop.) Does the vendor offer an extended warranty? Can anyone tell me, if I'm using my own software (I was planning on front-ending the Orion Jr2 with a Raspberry Pi using the serial interface) what accessories will I need? Last question, if you were buying today, would you still go with the Orion Jr2 or is there something you've found that might suit your needs better and why?

Thanks for your help and if you'd like any information on how my system is setup and how my software works, I have a YT channel (JC/DC in the AZ) that has some videos on this topic: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8_TU2g-Yl1oMCts3pkXCbQ

I'm also willing to help anyone who wants to try my setup. I have a Github repository where I publish my software along with instructions for it as well as some information about Home Assistant integration. If I go the Orion route, I'll be integrating that into the software as well.
 

hammick

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So this thread hasn't been updated in a while it seems. I've done a lot of testing with other BMS' and I'm pretty much coming around to the realization that the Orion might be the way to go. I've tried Chinese products (JK branded BLE and RS-485) and the quality is what you'd expect. The BLE works pretty good - the RS-485 not so much. Support is the main problem with these - language barrier is also a problem. I've also tried Daly BLE+RS-485 and it works OK, but I'm concerned about support and I'm not really interested in having the BMS inline with the current path. I'd rather have a "Battery Monitor System" than a battery management system. Lastly, I bought a GWL PCM board along with their BCC module which front-ends the PCM (monitor/relay control) with a web server for IP monitoring and control. EPIC FAILURE! The CPM board shuts down every day so monitoring the battery becomes impossible and GWL is useless for support since they are 1/2 way around the globe from U.S.A and the language barrier. I've ask for a refund, but we'll see. This one was the most expensive and I even purchased their extended warranty for 5 years - I feel like that was a waste and I can only get email support and that is asynchronous and often several days apart for responses. I have my own software I've mentioned in other threads on this forum that I use to monitor my Schneider equipment as well as whichever BMS I choose. I have the software integrated with Home Assistant. I can monitor and control my equipment using that application (which is very well polished) instead of writing my own or using multiple vendors software to accomplish the complete solution.

So this gets me to my questions regarding the Orion Jr2. How is support? Has anyone opened a case with them and how long was it before your first response as well as the time span to get a solution? I know this is going to be the most expensive solution (hence my last stop.) Does the vendor offer an extended warranty? Can anyone tell me, if I'm using my own software (I was planning on front-ending the Orion Jr2 with a Raspberry Pi using the serial interface) what accessories will I need? Last question, if you were buying today, would you still go with the Orion Jr2 or is there something you've found that might suit your needs better and why?

Thanks for your help and if you'd like any information on how my system is setup and how my software works, I have a YT channel (JC/DC in the AZ) that has some videos on this topic: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8_TU2g-Yl1oMCts3pkXCbQ

I'm also willing to help anyone who wants to try my setup. I have a Github repository where I publish my software along with instructions for it as well as some information about Home Assistant integration. If I go the Orion route, I'll be integrating that into the software as well.

Support for me was excellent. They spent hours and hours with me. Initially on the phone then by email. My level of understanding at first wasn't great so that made it time consuming. I wore him out. But he assured me before I purchased that CANBUS control over my equipment was possible. He made good on that promise.

It's my understanding from speaking with Orion tech that the Schneider XW Pro now has plug and play capability with the Jr.2 BMS. You must have the gateway or new home gateway for this to work. My inverter is the XW+ so no go.
 
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