Orion -TR Smart Isolated DC-DC Charger 12/12V-30A

[mustangbob]

I have a Chevy Express Van that I have installed a solar system on. The system has 400W of panel, Victron Solar Charge Controller, 300 AH of Lithium Battle Born battery, a 3000w Victron Inverter Charger along with Shore Power capability. I am now ready to install the above Victron DC-DC Isolated Smart Charger. The Van has a factory installed isolated auxiliary battery. The aux battery is the same size as the main chassis battery. The Van also has a HD Alternator which I suspect is considered to be a Smart Alternator?????? Due to the location of the Auxiliary Battery I would like to hook the DC -DC Charger to the Auxiliary Battery rather than running to the front chassis battery. My logic is that by doing so I will gain and extra layer of protection for the alternator by using the Auxiliary Battery. I have no other loads depending on the Aux Battery. Is my thinking correct or am I off base? The supplier I purchased my equipment from is saying yes, I can hook to either battery. Thanks for your input.

 

[John Frum]

I am now ready to install the above Victron DC-DC Isolated Smart Charger.

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Datasheet-Orion-Tr-Smart-DC-DC-chargers-isolated-250-400W-EN.pdf

The Van has a factory installed isolated auxiliary battery.

How is it isolated?

 

[mustangbob]

I understand the Vans factory wiring has an isolator (between the Aux and the main) protecting the main chassis battery.

 

[John Frum]

I understand the Vans factory wiring has an isolator (between the Aux and the main) protecting the main chassis battery.

I would test to make sure the charger doesn't drain your auxiliary battery when the aux bat is isolated from the alternator.

 

[jbird526]

The limitation that I can think of is that if the isolator limits the amount of amperage provided to the auxiliary battery? If it was limited to say 10 amps then the 30amp Orion would only be able to provide 10amps to your house batteries. I have no idea if this is happening as do not know your model year or specifications of the isolator. Perhaps use a DC amp clamp and see how much is flowing to the auxiliary? Or would it simply draw down the isolated battery?

 

[jbird526]

If you take this as an example of what you have its a chassis and house battery factory installed. https://gmauthority.com/blog/2018/10/2019-express-van-gets-new-dual-battery-system/

So what you are asking is to charge a new house battery off a factory installed house battery. Again if this is the setup and makes sense it is.

 

[MisterSandals]

One unfortunate consequence of using the auxiliary battery is that the voltage sensing for the alternator that tells the Orion to charge (when over ~14V) “may” be lost.

That was a handy feature. There is also an IGN wire ability to turn on charging (simple 12V signal).

There is no way to tell the Orion to charge at lower amps in case you are concerned about your alternator. But there is also an 18A model that for some reason is harder to find in searches (but readily available on places like Amazon).

 

[jbird526]

Starting to see a trend here...

Hook the Orion to the main chassis battery. Eliminates all the questions and possible hazards. This also means you have 2 house batteries!

Maybe you could add in a connection block just before the isolator for the Orion to draw power? I have no idea where it is located but would be nice if the isolator is inside the cab. Under the drivers or passenger seat? Directly off the main battery would be best, at least I prefer home runs of wiring. Not always the cheapest option but eliminates any guess work.

 

[mustangbob]

The limitation that I can think of is that if the isolator limits the amount of amperage provided to the auxiliary battery? If it was limited to say 10 amps then the 30amp Orion would only be able to provide 10amps to your house batteries. I have no idea if this is happening as do not know your model year or specifications of the isolator. Perhaps use a DC amp clamp and see how much is flowing to the auxiliary? Or would it simply draw down the isolated battery?

I would test to make sure the charger doesn't drain your auxiliary battery when the aux bat is isolated from the alternator.

Exactly one of my concerns. I have no doubt that in a low state the lithium bank would ask for more than the aux could provide and the aux would be limited by the limits of the vehicle isolator. The isolator shouldn't allow the main battery to be drawn down but I've wondered about that balance in the draw to the aux battery to the output of the alternator. the alternator is factory rated at 220 amps but we know how that goes. If the end result is a slower charging rate I'm fine with that. This is all in a newer, 2020 model year and the point of determining the limiting amperage of the isolator is a good one. I have a lot of info on the vehicle electrical system but not much on the isolator.

 

[mustangbob]

So would my logic be correct in that if the pass through rating allowed by the isolator is 30 amps or higher the system would have a balance between the Orion and the factory aux battery? 30 amps out- 30 amps in....In such a case the length of current draw and its affect on the alternator would still be an unknown in which I would need to find out the duty cycle of the alternator????? If the pass through amperage of the isolator is high enough of offset any reduction in duty cycle, all should be well. Just a beginner here but makes sense to me. I'm sure its near that easy though.

 

[John Frum]

My suggestion is find the isolator so that we know what we are dealing with and where it is located.

 

[jbird526]

I have this sneaking suspicion since this is a factory option, the isolator is buried in the deepest darkest hole possible to prevent reading any numbers.
Hopefully not... and hopefully not some integrated unit with some other functions.

 

[mikefitz]

Usually on vans with two installed batteries, a starter and an auxiliary , they are isolated in the positive path but share the negative, and thus van body/chassis. The isolation is only active with ignition off, with Ignition on and engine running they are connected together with a power relay. This relay is capable of supplying starter current.
The Orion is normally voltage sensed controlled, with a maximum draw in the high 30s amps, say 37 amps. I guess the factory system can easily tollerate this draw from the auxiliary battery. The built-in voltage levels for activation and deactivation can be user set but the out of the box settings are usually OK. Worst case is activation via the H or L control lines.

There should be no need for the isolated version of the Orion, as the house battery bank with inverter should be connectred to the van body/chassis with battery negative and also the protective and case earth points of the inverter charger.

In UK versions of the Ford Transit a dedicated fused termination is provided at the auxiliary battery location to easily allow power take off, perhaps a similar system exists with your van.

Mike

 

[jbird526]

Now that @mikefitz commented, it may be similar to my buddies Sprinter based RV. There is a relay under the seat, that I had to replace due to failure, that closes based on an ignition sensor wire. That relay then sends power to the AGM house batteries. Never put a meter on those to see how much is being supplied.

When Chevy says "isolator" it may not be all that smart and just be a heavy duty relay. It "may" sense if the voltage is higher than say > 14 volts or be timed or just close contacts based on ignition wire? They are going to install the cheapest possible solution in my experience.

Was no more advanced than the following.

 

[mustangbob]

All excellent information! On searching the engine compartment and contacting Chevrolet, you are correct in that there is a relay which according to the drawings I already have, functions exactly as you have described. I suspect it will be near impossible to get any additional information from Chevy. The Orion is fused on both the inlet and outlet sides so I think I will plan to install as I planned.I thank you all for your help. Sure brings a bit more peace of mind.

 

[jbird526]

All excellent information! On searching the engine compartment and contacting Chevrolet, you are correct in that there is a relay which according to the drawings I already have, functions exactly as you have described. I suspect it will be near impossible to get any additional information from Chevy. The Orion is fused on both the inlet and outlet sides so I think I will plan to install as I planned.I thank you all for your help. Sure brings a bit more peace of mind.

Just make sure to fuse where you are connecting with at least the following quality of breaker. If you want a breaker instead of a fuse. As always, fusing is to protect the wire, not the appliance.

Blue Sea Systems 7035 187 Series

 

[John Frum]

Just found this, shows a Chevy express.

 

[mustangbob]

Thanks a bunch...This is great information as well as a good future resource. One difference I need to sort out is that my system has been designed with the Orion Isolated Charger which had me running both the positive and negative cables directly to the battery rather than a common ground from the charger to frame. Any thoughts?

 

[John Frum]

Thanks a bunch...This is great information as well as a good future resource. One difference I need to sort out is that my system has been designed with the Orion Isolated Charger which had me running both the positive and negative cables directly to the battery rather than a common ground from the charger to frame. Any thoughts?

An isolated charger is required for a trailer where an non-isolated charger is would create a ground loop with the 7 pin cable.
Its not required for a van but won't hurt.

 

[jbird526]

An isolated also allows flexibility in use later if reutilized on a trailer or something else that may be fiberglass, like a boat. I also prefer to run a ground to the source than rely on the chassis, so isolated would be my only choice. Yes at some point the battery is grounded to the chassis but still... rust never sleeps