Outback Radian 8kW or MPP Solar pair for 13kW?

[MrM1]

My production for Oct in N central FL with my 2565w array. One 0 day system was off. One 0 day I reset it (was actually a 10kWh day). I will be Overpaneling my midnite Classic 150 in the next few weeks. I will double the array size to 5175w

 

[Wellbuilt]

Why stop at 25%? The SCC is only going to use what it can use. Does it care if the array can produce 10, 20 or 100% more than that?

I asked midnite solar about over paneling the classic 150 , and they told me it makes no difference. It will only use what it wants and the rest is wasted. It does not even disperse as heat, it just never gets used

It's like hooking up my 1500w toaster to the mega watt grid. The grid can produce many thousands of watts , but my toaster is only ever going to use 1500.

I don’t believe in maxing things out .
If I needed more power I would just add a second charge controller

 

[Wellbuilt]

You could buy the Outback Flexpower and get a 5-year warranty.
Or SMA Sunny Island, 10 year warranty standard.

https://files.sma.de/downloads/SI6048US-DS-en-28.pdf

Not a pre-assembled panel, though. Pair with a Sunny Boy to connect PV (600Voc max strings), 10 year warranty, 15 or 20 optional
Together, about same price as Flexpower. (less if you buy somebody's inventory liquidation, maybe < $4000 for both)
You get combined AC wattage during the day.
But if you build a "small" system with just one Sunny Island, will require a 120/240V transformer.

https://files.sma.de/downloads/SBxx-US-DS-en-39.pdf

I’m hoping I don’t need the warrantee, my system is allmost 5 years old and it just works , I’ve been reading about a lot of people having problems with sunny island systems over the last few years .
I’ve heard good and bad .
I was not really looking to save any money when I built my cabin the power was just a small part of the over all cost.
and I’m very happy with it .
I know 2 people that have out back equipment running one for 21 years and a second for just over 10 They just humm along .
I’m not a electrision and to pass code here I thought it was better to just have one working system .

 

[Hedges]

I don’t believe in maxing things out .
If I needed more power I would just add a second charge controller

Two strings of panels, oriented differently and wired in parallel, would max out hours of production rather than peak watts (and heating).
Going by trigonometry, aimed at 9:00 AM and 3:00 PM sun, 6 hours and 90 degrees apart, peak should be about 0.7x what all same orientation would have delivered.

 

[Hedges]

I’m hoping I don’t need the warrantee, my system is allmost 5 years old and it just works , I’ve been reading about a lot of people having problems with sunny island systems over the last few years .
I’ve heard good and bad .
I was not really looking to save any money when I built my cabin the power was just a small part of the over all cost.
and I’m very happy with it .
I know 2 people that have out back equipment running one for 21 years and a second for just over 10 They just humm along .
I’m not a electrision and to pass code here I thought it was better to just have one working system

I don't want warranties, just equipment that never breaks.
If SMA gives 10 year warranties, they are confident the equipment will last.

What problem have you heard of regarding Sunny Island? Any links?
I have several of them. Don't have much knowledge of others' experience, but Trukinbear had one replaced under warranty, after a problem keeping battery charged because Classic SCC connected to wrong side of shunt when data cable also used. "W309 relay protect and disconnects from the generator."

With Google, I find four (one is TrukinBear):

Sunny Island problem - Photovoltaikforum

Hello. My setup is 2 SB4000TL, Energy Meter, Home Manager and Sunny Island. It has been working just fine, but today it has been starting to oscillate back and forth. Let me explain. If the consumption in the house is 2KW, it will oscillate between 2KW…

www.photovoltaikforum.com

https://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/2563150

SMA Sunny Island SI6048 SOC

I've been fussing with this SMA Sunny Island SI6048 for a year now, and I'm still stumped as to how to 'fix' it's SOC calculations.

forum.solar-electric.com

[RE-wrenches] Sunny Island: Reliability / Error Codes

re-wrenches.re-wrenches.narkive.com

"We have also been told that the transfer relay is prone to "sticking" and we
have to power the units down and "tap" on the relays."

I knew there was a reason I wasn't comfortable with workaround SMA U.S. support gave me for use of 10000TLUS, to put it in "offgrid" rather than "grid-backup" and rely on Sunny Island for anti-islanding protection. Despite SMA Germany having designed/documented the mechanism of RS-485 communicating on/off grid situation. If relay sticks to grid remains connected, and Sunny Boy is configured for offgrid, grid gets driven.

I did see one error message myself yesterday, after a grid power glitch. One slave reported problem writing SD card.

 

[Wellbuilt]

im not to worried about the warrantee.
I just look at some sunny island equipment and I’m seeing 5 year Warrantee ?
I may have miss some thing .
No I have no links, and no skin in the game it’s just what I’ve read .
I just trust out back , it’s solid equipment .

 

[Hedges]

im not to worried about the warrantee.
I just look at some sunny island equipment and I’m seeing 5 year Warrantee ?
I may have miss some thing .

Once upon a time.
It was 10 years for current US model, in the link I provided.

But the following link also says 20,000 full-load hours, which would be 2.28 years going full-blast at 5.75kW
So sounds like you get 10 years at average 1300W.

https://files.sma.de/downloads/COM-RES-EWTC-en-21.pdf

 

[Wellbuilt]

?‍ Lots of mumbo jumbo rite there ?
The truth is if I have a problem AWS fix’s it for me
I pay the money , take the risk , sometimes I eat the bear , some times the bear eats me .

 

[newbostonconst]

I have a Outback GS4048 running a large ~7k sqft house without a problem. The Outback has many options and can AC couple with the firmware upgrade. I didn't buy the lower breaker panel and just made my own which saves a lot. I also right now a have 18 280ah cells connected so you can go above 48volts and add some capacity to your battery without buying a whole new battery.

Note on the menus.....Outback displays everything in the Mate3 even if it isn't connected so just go to the menus of the stuff you have connected. Like if you don't have a solar charge controller from outback there will be settings in the Mate but they will do nothing.

Good Luck with your setup.

 

[Wellbuilt]

I have a Outback GS4048 running a large ~7k sqft house without a problem. The Outback has many options and can AC couple with the firmware upgrade. I didn't buy the lower breaker panel and just made my own which saves a lot. I also right now a have 18 280ah cells connected so you can go above 48volts and add some capacity to your battery without buying a whole new battery.

Note on the menus.....Outback displays everything in the Mate3 even if it isn't connected so just go to the menus of the stuff you have connected. Like if you don't have a solar charge controller from outback there will be settings in the Mate but they will do nothing.

Good Luck with your setup.

That’s a nice set up they where just coming out 4/5 years a go when I bought mine .
I went with the fp1 3648 and it’s good stuff .
The only down fall is my charger only puts out 1900 watts max I would thing it would be more ?
But it works fine .

 

[JustPractical]

OK, so the more panels the merrier. I was aware of not going over Voc, and I assumed going over the watts would also cause problems. Makes more sense that it would just not take what it can't use.
NEXT QUESTION (since we are talking about panels) - recommendations on rail system and mounts (the "thing" with the flange)? I'll be putting this up myself. So far the main advice I have seen is mount the panels near the edge of the roof, so snow has someplace to fall off. Suggestions for brands and good places to shop are appreciated.

 

[MrM1]

I'm partial to Prosolar racking with your whatever needed type roof mounts. Dollar for dollar you can't really even DIY Rails for the price of a Prosolar rail. Unistrut is another cheap option but its only slightly less than Prosolar and u can run into the issue of what to use for end caps.

S5 makes a great line of roof mounts. I've used the versabracket 47

Signature Solar makes a budget friendly mini rail but honestly I look at it and think, how exactly do I do zip tie cable management with these?

 

[JustPractical]

I'm partial to Prosolar racking with your whatever needed type roof mounts. Dollar for dollar you can't really even DIY Rails for the price of a Prosolar rail. Unistrut is another cheap option but its only slightly less than Prosolar and u can run into the issue of what to use for end caps.

S5 makes a great line of roof mounts. I've used the versabracket 47

Signature Solar makes a budget friendly mini rail but honestly I look at it and think, how exactly do I do zip tie cable management with these?

Asphalt shingle roof. I saw the mini rail - but we get a good bit of wind and snow, so I was spooked.

 

[Wellbuilt]

I used iron ridge 1000 in 24’ lengths
I bought them from my electrical supply house with all the parts necessary I just drove over and picked it all up .
Dropped a skid of panels in the back of the truck and strapped the 24’ bars to the roof .
I’ve never really had any one recommend the more the Merrier for solar panels .
I’ve seen 18 300 watt panels on a quote for a system with a fm 80 .
I know I have 15 panels and my not pass inspection because I’m over the 4000watts specked by the manufacturer .

Two strings of panels, oriented differently and wired in parallel, would max out hours of production rather than peak watts (and heating).
Going by trigonometry, aimed at 9:00 AM and 3:00 PM sun, 6 hours and 90 degrees apart, peak should be about 0.7x what all same orientation would have delivered.

Hmmm this is a very interesting idea
I was thinking about ground mounting 12 or 15 more panels to my system for winter so I can clean off the snow.
I only get 2000 watts max in the winter so in theory I could double my array and still be under the 4000watts max for a fm 80 .
I only charge with 3 strings 2700watts of solar 6 months out of the year now , but in the winter it’s really gloomy .
I could just turn off the extra panels if I don’t need them .
I guess that the inspector would not like the idea . Your thoughts ?

 

[NMNeil]

Go with Outback. MPP are very poor build quality as I showed in another thread.

I bought an MPP LV48 3Kw unit about a year ago, and it's worked flawlessly, but I was not so lucky with the second one I received about a month ago.
I ordered the parallel boards at the same time but there was a problem with delivery, so I installed it as just an MPPT charge controller to my battery bank. Turned it on and the first thing was an error code that the fan wasn't turning. By careful examination (I stuck my finger in the fan) I could fell that the fan blades were dragging on something.
I contacted Ian at 24/7 and he said it should be an easy fix. I did ask about voiding the warranty if I took the cover off myself, but never did get an answer.
Although not happy that I was having to fix a brand new, rather expensive piece of equipment upon delivery, I took off the front cover.
Inside I found that the build quality was awful.

The green toroid with the blue and pink wires is not secured to anything, and it's crushed the side of the very thin plastic ducting pushing it into the fan, hence the code.

I ended up using cable ties to keep the torroid away from the ducting, but if you look lower there's an orange disc capacitor that is bent over itself, probably from being hit with the torroid.

This means that the units are not tested at the factory and there seems to be no quality control or final inspection.

 

[Porch]

I am unsure if an inspector is going to care about over paneling, assuming your fusing and wire size is correct.

 

[Wellbuilt]

The controllers are ul listed and rated for 4000watts i think that is a problem

 

[Wellbuilt]

Go with Outback. MPP are very poor build quality as I showed in another thread.

I bought an MPP LV48 3Kw unit about a year ago, and it's worked flawlessly, but I was not so lucky with the second one I received about a month ago.
I ordered the parallel boards at the same time but there was a problem with delivery, so I installed it as just an MPPT charge controller to my battery bank. Turned it on and the first thing was an error code that the fan wasn't turning. By careful examination (I stuck my finger in the fan) I could fell that the fan blades were dragging on something.
I contacted Ian at 24/7 and he said it should be an easy fix. I did ask about voiding the warranty if I took the cover off myself, but never did get an answer.
Although not happy that I was having to fix a brand new, rather expensive piece of equipment upon delivery, I took off the front cover.
Inside I found that the build quality was awful.

The green toroid with the blue and pink wires is not secured to anything, and it's crushed the side of the very thin plastic ducting pushing it into the fan, hence the code.

I ended up using cable ties to keep the torroid away from the ducting, but if you look lower there's an orange disc capacitor that is bent over itself, probably from being hit with the torroid.

This means that the units are not tested at the factory and there seems to be no quality control or final inspection.

That’s looking scary , my out back is very nicely done
very compact

 

[JustPractical]

Right now I have on order two 48V 16s 280AH sets; one from Amy Wan and the other from the Lishen-Eve store (?)
So approx 26KW of batteries coming. I may need one or two more sets to get 52AH's.

will you wire those all in parallel? I had *thought* I read it's not good to put more than 5 batteries in parallel (but I've also read you're not supposed to step on a crack in the sidewalk...)

 

[JustPractical]

You can add extra panels to a mppt controler but the controler will only put out its max amps , but you will get to full amp out put earlier and latter in the day . I’m sure you can go over by 25% or a little more , I’m over by 500watts on my fm 80 .

If possible I would work with the 100 year cold average -39 is cold but you could just turn your solar off at nite and turn it back on when it warms up later in the morning .
My cold temp is -27 and I’m rite there at -27 so if I’m sitting @ - 15 before bed I’ll walk over an kill the solar and turn it back on in the morning after looking at the temp .

You can allso figure your winter watts will be about half what you get in summer so in theory you can allmost double
your solar panels for winter on one charge controller and just turn them off in the summer .
I have 4500 watts and see 3700 watts at 12 noon in July At 12 noon on dec21 I can see 1800/2000 watts max

Home is mostly unoccupied (so I would not be there to shut anything off). Why is there no auto disconnect for over voltage?