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Panels to heat a 12kw water heater

leachim1

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Jun 5, 2022
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I have a 12kw heating element for helping to heat a 2000 ltr biomass water tank

We have 3 phase already

If I wanted to rely on solar panels and batteries to power this heater, how many would I need and what sort of battery storage, assuming the thing may me on most of the time ?

SW UK

Thanks
 
since nobody answered if its on 24-7 you would need to figure out the total use in kilowatts for the water heater running 24-7 and then design backwards from there, but if what i have read about England and solar (from members that live there) is any indication, I am going to guess you will need about upwards of 30kw of panels and then a really large battery bank.

if its going 24-7 you are only going to get about 3-6 hours of good solar depending upon location. this means that for those hours and those hours only you can run strictly off of solar, then for the hours prior and after the sweet spot you will have a slope of power rising, and then declining until the panels stop producing and then through the night, which will have to be supplemented by the batteries.

nothing is impossible but i would guess the math is not in your favor if it has to run 24-7...at least not from a financial standpoint. you might be better with a hybrid hot water heater that uses ground loop coupled with solar panels to power the compressor side of the hybrid water heater.
 
My guess is that you won’t be heating at 12kW much if at all with solar. And, unless you are using a LOT of hot water, it will mostly be maintaining a temperature.

If you knew how much energy you currently use heating water it would make actual calculations more meaningful.
Or if you knew how many gallons of hot water you use and the temp differential between incoming and heat setting that’s useful too.

But just saying how many watts your element can handle and how big the tank is, isn’t something that I can estimate from (maybe someone else can?).
 
Electric resistance heating is super inefficient, especially for a 2m3 tank.

Do you require cooling for either the process or for office space? Look for an air conditioner with a water heat exchanger. Just pump around the heat you already have instead of making more. Marine air conditioners are setup with the heat exchanger and can make lots of BTUs.
 
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In industrial level heating solar thermal is the way to go. I could do PV heating cheaply with a bunch of used panels because I don't use off the shelf products.
 
12kw heating element...
...solar panels and batteries to power this heater
... assuming the thing may [be] on most of the time ?

SW UK

Ok, so the energy requirement is
12kW * 24H = 288kWH per day.

In your area, say postcode TA6, the online calculator https://www.pvfitcalculator.energysavingtrust.org.uk/ suggests that a 10kWpeak array at 30degrees mounting angle, facing due south, will achieve approximately 7TWH/year, or about 19kWH/day.

Given that you need 288kWH/day, you'll have to install a 155kWpeak solar array. If you choose 20% efficient solar cells, and find a super cheap supplier/installer, or DIY, then you're looking at about 0.8GBP to 1.25GBP per watt, and about 200 watts per square meter of installed panels:

Cost: 155,000W * 0.8GBP to 1.25GBP = 124,000GBP to 194,000GBP
Area: 155,000W / 200w/m2 = 775 square meters, or a 28m x 28m area, with around 480 solar panels

The solar day is, on average, about 1/3 of a full day, or about 8 hours, so you'd only have 8 hours a day to capture your solar, and the batteries would have to store and then dole out the remaining 2/3.

288kWH * 2/3 stored = 192kWH stored

5kWH batteries are available for around 1,300GBP each:

192kWH / 5kWH * 1,300GBP = 49,920GBP

You will only need a 12kW inverter, and those can be had for resistive loads, like your heater, for under 2,000 GBP. However, you'll need many MPPT battery chargers that will handle 288kW total. A cheap 5kW mppt charge controller should run you about 350GBP, so:

288kW / 5kW * 350GBP = 20,000 GBP

Conclusion:

To run your 12kW heater 24/7 on solar power located somewhere in southwest UK with solar panels tilted at 30 degrees facing due south you'll spend at least 270,000 GBP on solar panels, an inverter, batteries, and solar charge controllers. The installation racking, wiring, mounting, fixtures, and any other parts of the system will add on to that cost.

Further consideration:
Electric heat is 100% efficient. Heat pumps are up to 500% efficient. A 4 ton heat pump is nearly equivalent to the 12kWH heater in terms of heat output, and I expect you can get a biomass heat pump system for under 20,000GBP. It would easily cut your solar requirements in half or more, saving 135,000GBP.

Further, solar water heating is 2-3 times more efficient in turning sun into heat than a solar --> electricity --> heat system. Using the water tank itself as the energy storage you can completely eliminate the batteries, inverter, and charge controllers and simply heat the water using solar water heating panels.

As others have pointed out, your question doesn't provide us with enough information to further optimize the solution. Rather than telling us the solution and asking for numbers, describe the problem fully. This may allow us to suggest alternative solutions, or find areas where your solution might be overkill or insufficient to solve the problem.

Lastly, it's generally more cost effective to optimize your energy usage before changing it to another energy source. The above solution might solve your problem, however if by adding a little insulation you increase your system efficiency by just 10%, your cost drops by 27,000GBP - and the insulation costs far less than that. So understanding what the system is, how it's currently used, all the energy sources and sinks, usage patterns, location, etc we may find opportunities to reduce your solar needs significantly at a lower cost or with a higher environmental impact, depending on what you want to optimize for.
 
Electric resistance heating is super inefficient, especially for a 2m3 tank.
I wouldn't describe 100% efficient water heating as inefficient and can't understand why the volume makes any difference. There are certainly more efficient ways, but that comes with a capital cost - which could be spent on more panels.
 
I have a 12kw heating element for helping to heat a 2000 ltr biomass water tank

We have 3 phase already

If I wanted to rely on solar panels and batteries to power this heater, how many would I need and what sort of battery storage, assuming the thing may me on most of the time ?

SW UK

Thanks
I'm in SW UK & heating 10,000 litres of water in a biomass system using solar as much as possible to reduce the spiralling cost of wood pellets. Contact me if you want more info.
 
Rather than use 20% efficient PV panels, use 60% efficient evacuated tube water heating panels.

You could use ET's for daytime a PV/battery for night, but I think you'd be better storing the heat as 'heat'.

What temp range are you trying to maintain?
 
Rather than use 20% efficient PV panels, use 60% efficient evacuated tube water heating panels.

You could use ET's for daytime a PV/battery for night, but I think you'd be better storing the heat as 'heat'.

What temp range are you trying to maintain?

It would be 70 degrees on a thermostat

Maybe 65 in the summer
 
Ok, so the energy requirement is
12kW * 24H = 288kWH per day.

In your area, say postcode TA6, the online calculator https://www.pvfitcalculator.energysavingtrust.org.uk/ suggests that a 10kWpeak array at 30degrees mounting angle, facing due south, will achieve approximately 7TWH/year, or about 19kWH/day.

Given that you need 288kWH/day, you'll have to install a 155kWpeak solar array. If you choose 20% efficient solar cells, and find a super cheap supplier/installer, or DIY, then you're looking at about 0.8GBP to 1.25GBP per watt, and about 200 watts per square meter of installed panels:

Cost: 155,000W * 0.8GBP to 1.25GBP = 124,000GBP to 194,000GBP
Area: 155,000W / 200w/m2 = 775 square meters, or a 28m x 28m area, with around 480 solar panels

The solar day is, on average, about 1/3 of a full day, or about 8 hours, so you'd only have 8 hours a day to capture your solar, and the batteries would have to store and then dole out the remaining 2/3.

288kWH * 2/3 stored = 192kWH stored

5kWH batteries are available for around 1,300GBP each:

192kWH / 5kWH * 1,300GBP = 49,920GBP

You will only need a 12kW inverter, and those can be had for resistive loads, like your heater, for under 2,000 GBP. However, you'll need many MPPT battery chargers that will handle 288kW total. A cheap 5kW mppt charge controller should run you about 350GBP, so:

288kW / 5kW * 350GBP = 20,000 GBP

Conclusion:

To run your 12kW heater 24/7 on solar power located somewhere in southwest UK with solar panels tilted at 30 degrees facing due south you'll spend at least 270,000 GBP on solar panels, an inverter, batteries, and solar charge controllers. The installation racking, wiring, mounting, fixtures, and any other parts of the system will add on to that cost.

Further consideration:
Electric heat is 100% efficient. Heat pumps are up to 500% efficient. A 4 ton heat pump is nearly equivalent to the 12kWH heater in terms of heat output, and I expect you can get a biomass heat pump system for under 20,000GBP. It would easily cut your solar requirements in half or more, saving 135,000GBP.

Further, solar water heating is 2-3 times more efficient in turning sun into heat than a solar --> electricity --> heat system. Using the water tank itself as the energy storage you can completely eliminate the batteries, inverter, and charge controllers and simply heat the water using solar water heating panels.

As others have pointed out, your question doesn't provide us with enough information to further optimize the solution. Rather than telling us the solution and asking for numbers, describe the problem fully. This may allow us to suggest alternative solutions, or find areas where your solution might be overkill or insufficient to solve the problem.

Lastly, it's generally more cost effective to optimize your energy usage before changing it to another energy source. The above solution might solve your problem, however if by adding a little insulation you increase your system efficiency by just 10%, your cost drops by 27,000GBP - and the insulation costs far less than that. So understanding what the system is, how it's currently used, all the energy sources and sinks, usage patterns, location, etc we may find opportunities to reduce your solar needs significantly at a lower cost or with a higher environmental impact, depending on what you want to optimize for.

Great answer !

It would be on a thermostat 70-75 degrees in the winter

Possibly 60-65 in the summer

We are EX24 area

Also we may have the possibility to install another 12kw heater (total 24kw) in there as we have tested the 12kw and it struggles to heat the water any hotter (but it will HOLD the temp once switched on) as it is currently being circulated around the various houses it heats
 
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