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Parallel 6000XP Flash and Bang - She's dead Jim

trad

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Joined
Jul 15, 2023
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170
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TX
I have a parallel 6000xp setup that had been running fine for about a month suddenly go (Flash Bang). Unit 1 had been running for 6 months as a single inverter, but I needed slightly more power and having a second inverter for backup seemed logical so unit 2 was installed. I happened to be nearby and since I had problems with unit2 dongle communications going offline at that time and I was trying to resolve this, I immediately cut all breakers and power including parallel sync cables to unit 2 thinking this was the problem unit.

Unit 1 continued to provide power, but it was working in grid bypass mode only. I left the unit running and went to get some troubleshooting tools and came back 5 minutes later hearing more flash bangs from unit 1 and seeing smoke curling out of the fans. At this point unit 1 was also taken completely off line and troubleshooting began. Unit 1 was effectively dead. It would only provide power in grid bypass mode. Solar MPPT seemed to be dead also.

Unit 2 came back online and started providing power without problem, however the dongle communication problems persisted. Sig Solar was contacted and within a few hours I was in contact with Chris Money Sig Solar Tech Solutions. I provided the usual exhaustive list of site survey, pictures, pictures and more pictures to help figure out the issue.

Chris Money Sig Solar claims that my 6000xp went Flash Bang due to multiple landings. What this means is that rather than use a utility combiner box, and a load combiner box, I had the multiple wires joined in the breaker, inside unit2 of the 6000xp. Inside the breaker connection we had a 4ga heading to the load and a 10ga heading over to unit 1. Sig Solar replaced the unit under a Defective Product - First Strike Policy, which is now on the wall but not yet hooked up.. I want to make sure that I don't smoke a second one.

Wiring image of multiple landing in Unit2 (not the failed unit)
1743771316075.png
There are many different ways to combine wires. You can use a combiner box, you can use a collar crimp, and you can be lazy like I was and just combine both wires in the bottom of the breaker. I open myelf up to criticism on this now. I really don't have room for a combiner box. How should I combine the wires?

I am also suspicious that something else was wrong as I had trouble getting the parallel settings to take and reversing the parallel cables seemed to resolve the issue. Is is really multiple landings that killed unit 1 or could it possibly be failed parallel sync cabling?
 
Yikes. Sorry about that. Double tapping makes things difficult to get a good connection and in turn can create arcing and heat. When I first bought my home, the previous owners had double tapped the main lugs in one of our breaker panels and when you had a load running, those things got cherry red.

So there's 3 different ways that I know of where you can combine your multiple inverters.
1. A combiner box/panel where you run each string into their own circuit breaker and then the output of that panel goes to your loads.
2. Pollaris/morris connectors (ex. https://www.amazon.com/MAKERELE-Insulated-Multi-Cable-Connectors-Electrical/dp/B0DFQ36RVS)
3. Power Distribution Block (PDB) (ex. https://www.amazon.com/Mersen-MPDB63133-Alum-Pwr-Dist-Block/dp/B00208HWQU/)

For each you would need to ensure that your cabling is properly sized on the input and the combined output for the amperage of each unit.
 
Hi @Adam De Lay , I notice you didn't suggest collar crimps??

There doesn't seem to be any warming at all on the double tapping, but I hear you. Not best practice.
 
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Double landing your wires into the second inverter is nasty and against code but unless the connections were being lost I don't think it caused the blow up.
Yeah my thoughts too. I am suspicious that the parallel wiring sync rj45 cable issue is more likely. How will I test this without blowing a second time?
 
Hi @Adam De Lay , I notice you didn't suggest collar crimps??

There doesn't seem to be any warming at all on the double tapping, but I hear you. Not best practice.
Off the top of my head, I'm not aware of what collar crimps are. If it's just a crimp ring that goes over multiple wires, yeah I wouldn't do that either.
Yeah my thoughts too. I am suspicious that the parallel wiring sync rj45 cable issue is more likely. How will I test this without blowing a second time?
You said the units ran in parallel fine for a month? Was there any other changes made recently?
 
@SomethingAppropriate - the breakers were pulled first load, grid, pv then unit 2 shut down, then parallel cables disconnected.

Unit 1 continued to flash and bang after unit 2 was shut down.

I have checked each of the rj45 cables and there is good continuity on all wires.

Lastest 6000xp manual shows that correct rj45 cabling is right to left with the wires crossing. Parallel Wire 1 goes from left port on left inverter to right port on right inverter. Parallel Wire 2 goes from right port on left inverter to left port on right inverter. (Since no diagram for 2 inverter is shown, I am assuming from below)
1743781886349.png

Is that how yours is wired for a 2 unit parallel configuration?
 
@Adam De Lay - the only thing recent was that there was a parallel config problem that was resolved by reversing the parallel wires on one inverter. It was my imagination that the online manual was wrong. It had to be left to left and right to right, but this may be faulty memory on my part.

The most recent change was that the dongle on unit 2 quit working that morning and would get LED one and two going solid green, but LED three would stay blinking and it would never connect to to the EG4 app, and also Solar Assistant was never recognizing the unit 2 inverter. This is what I was puzzling over when the failure occurred with me only 6 feet away.

After the failure, and unit 2 was up and running loads, attempts by Sig Solar to get the dongle working didn't work, Chris Money suggested just swapping dongles with the dead inverter. Immediately unit 2 came back online. But a dead dongle shouldn't cause a 6000xp to go pop and boom should it?
 
Off the top of my head, I'm not aware of what collar crimps are. If it's just a crimp ring that goes over multiple wires, yeah I wouldn't do that either.

You said the units ran in parallel fine for a month? Was there any other changes made recently?
I
Is that how yours is
Yes it is.

Ok so if you had bangs before you touched anything, after months of operation., then I've don't have any ideas
 
After the failure, and unit 2 was up and running loads, attempts by Sig Solar to get the dongle working didn't work, Chris Money suggested just swapping dongles with the dead inverter. Immediately unit 2 came back online. But a dead dongle shouldn't cause a 6000xp to go pop and boom should it?
No the dongle wound't have anything to do with it.

Did the pop happen after powering up the inverter when it was completely shut down and disconnected from all power sources?
 
Attached is the EG4 plans I utilized for my off-grid solar system. I started with 1 6000XP inverter, now have a second 6000XP installed, and sooner or later will add a 3rd 6000XP. The combiner boxes and wiring diagrams provided by EG4 has served me well. I run lead acid mode and set the 6000XP to share for my 72.7 kWh battery bank. Good luck and wish you the best on your solar build!
 

Attachments

No the dongle wound't have anything to do with it.

Did the pop happen after powering up the inverter when it was completely shut down and disconnected from all power sources?
No both inverters had been running fine for at least 24hrs in parallel except for the dongle issue.

( Thx for your input on this Adam. I'm going with your Morris multi-taps to get rid of double tapping. )
 
Only 2 things will cause the bang and damage you describe -- one is the wires being double tapped like you have done -- bad juju -- do yourself a favor and hit the hardware store and just buy a break box that will handle the combined amperage and make it a sub panel of the main -- you will need to buy the ground bar separately - so from main to sub you run L1, L2, N, G -- and connect them to their respective lugs.

Then each inverter uses its own 2 pole breaker - so you need at least an 8 space sub panel for 4 inverters or a 6 space for 3 inverters, etc.,...

This way you can isolate the output from each inverter that is powered --- and if you have an Oscope or scope meter you could even check that things are in phase before turning on the breaker... that is a side topic...


The other thing that is most likely is your second inverter lost the sync cable and the made the bang from out of phase power hitting at once -- and it probably toasted the diodes and silicone inside the inverter along with a few other bits .... could be repaired but probably not worth it unless you want a hobby in electronics to go with your solar hobby.
 
The other thing that is most likely is your second inverter lost the sync cable and the made the bang from out of phase power hitting at once -- and it probably toasted the diodes and silicone inside the inverter along with a few other bits .... could be repaired but probably not worth it unless you want a hobby in electronics to go with your solar hobby.
I can get rid of the double tapping, but I'm worried about a lost sync cable. Is there any way to test without a Oscope or scope meter?
And the worst thing would be an intermittent loss of the sync. Probably no way to test for that.
 
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I'm worried about a lost sync cable. Is there any way to test without a Oscope or scope meter?
Yes, make sure the outputs of the inverters are isolated from each other and then tug/mess with the parallel cable and see if you can fault the inverters.
I very much doubt this was the cause though, probably just one of those things.
 
Yes, make sure the outputs of the inverters are isolated from each other and then tug/mess with the parallel cable and see if you can fault the inverters.
I very much doubt this was the cause though, probably just one of those things.
By isolating the outputs of the inverters, do you mean that the load breaker of both inverters should be off?
Should the grid input to both inverters be turned on?
Battery must be on of course, and solar input turned off??
 
By isolating the outputs of the inverters, do you mean that the load breaker of both inverters should be off?
Should the grid input to both inverters be turned on?
Battery must be on of course, and solar input turned off??
Yeah, he's just suggesting to move the parallel cable all over the place to make sure it's not coming loose or causing some kind of parallel connection failure. So disconnect the AC Out of each inverter so if there is an accidental failure, you don't have the two inverters trying to output together on the same line when they're not synchronized.

Wouldn't hurt to turn the others off just because you're hands are messing with cables while the inverter is turned on.
 
By isolating the outputs of the inverters, do you mean that the load breaker of both inverters should be off?
Should the grid input to both inverters be turned on?
Battery must be on of course, and solar input turned off??

Another vote for having each inverter output connected to its own breaker...so you can isolate them.
 
yeah I had that problem when i went parallel on the magnums, but when you fire them up the ac sides (according to magnum) need to be on. I had racing fans and red lights, fortunately I was fast enough to open the breakers on everything, so no magic blue pixie dust form the inverters.
 

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