Parallel Solark 15k, no interconnect agreement.

[zanydroid]

Solark is missing the transmitter. I don't need the CCA for sure, but I think the transmitter does powerline comms to the TAP, which wirelessly sends the keep-alive to the actual RSD units. I could be mistaken on this one. Solark just has the 12v power supply, which is enough for the transmitter, but not enough power for the CCA (if you wanted monitoring/optimization).

I think all of the RSD have a PLC receiver.

It's pretty easy to find a 12V power supply. I think Tigo even sells a kit that has DIN rail, power supply, and CCA in an outdoor enclosure.

 

[Hedges]

Fortunately, it's just a personal liability policy. I can't imagine if they required collision and comprehensive ?

At one point, California CEC rebate required $1 million liability on the horse we rode in on.

Solark is missing the transmitter. I don't need the CCA for sure, but I think the transmitter does powerline comms to the TAP, which wirelessly sends the keep-alive to the actual RSD units. I could be mistaken on this one. Solark just has the 12v power supply, which is enough for the transmitter, but not enough power for the CCA (if you wanted monitoring/optimization).

I think just Tigo transmitter coupled to PV wire, conducts to "fire" RSD units. That's what I bought to use with older SMA inverters lacking the feature.
SolArk's 12V should supply the important stuff (RSD). Power everything else with AC adapters.

They have other units with mesh wireless data hopping to TAP and/or CCA, twisted pair wired data and WiFi to your device.

 

[ImAnIdiotPleaseBePatient]

Yeah. I believe the transmitter comes with a 120v breaker that has a 12v power supply on the back. Just makes for a slightly more PITA wire run. Last info I am seeing is that the new Tigo transmitter is 600ma but the solark 12v supply is only 100ma. That's aok, just a bummer. Wish solark/deye would just put a beefier 12v on their inverter.

 

[ImAnIdiotPleaseBePatient]

At one point, California CEC rebate required $1 million liability on the horse we rode in on.



I think just Tigo transmitter coupled to PV wire, conducts to "fire" RSD units. That's what I bought to use with older SMA inverters lacking the feature.
SolArk's 12V should supply the important stuff (RSD). Power everything else with AC adapters.

They have other units with mesh wireless data hopping to TAP and/or CCA, twisted pair wired data and WiFi to your device.

So there are two (2-pole) ports on the solark. one of them controls power to the inverter (if your short the contacts).

The other is just a 12v power supply to the rsd transmitter.

Here is a guy dealing with it.

 

[Hedges]

My plan is AC to GT PV inverter also powers AC adapter of Tigo transmitter. That takes care of knife switch doing RSD.
Once I add SI battery inverter, SB would still be powered if grid was down. I plan to use a 3-pole knife switch, so extra pole carries power to keep-alive. Switch triggers RSD, but grid failure or PV breaker does not.

So there are two (2-pole) ports on the solark. one of them controls power to the inverter (if your short the contacts).

The other is just a 12v power supply to the rsd transmitter.

Here is a guy dealing with it.

That should work. I don't have such an input to SI.
I will have the 3rd pole shed loads, so it cuts AC to house. But I'll have a bypass switch so I can override if that is done by miscreants rather than emergency personnel.

 

[zanydroid]

If you are building this system for off-grid / grid down use, you may want to read up on & test how RSD affects blackstart.

If configured properly you probably would not need to do this (since the inverter *should* keep enough reserve in the battery) to get everything going.

 

[ImAnIdiotPleaseBePatient]

If you are building this system for off-grid / grid down use, you may want to read up on & test how RSD affects blackstart.

If configured properly you probably would not need to do this (since the inverter *should* keep enough reserve in the battery) to get everything going.

Plan would be to power off of the main panel at first with that 120/12v power supply it comes with. When I get around to ordering my batteries, I will power off of the 48v battery with a 12v conversion and use a contactor or two to make it work with the big red RSD button, but also kill the inverter as well.
I figure until I get the batteries, the inverter is dead in a power down situation anyways.

 

[zanydroid]

Plan would be to power off of the main panel at first with that 120/12v power supply it comes with. When I get around to ordering my batteries, I will power off of the 48v battery with a 12v conversion and use a contactor or two to make it work with the big red RSD button, but also kill the inverter as well.
I figure until I get the batteries, the inverter is dead in a power down situation anyways.

OK cool, sounds like you've thought it through.

To clarify blackstart is starting from zero power situation. I don't know if it refers to the worst case (like accidentally having a dead battery). Or from the likely failure mode (like having some reserve left in the battery).

 

[ImAnIdiotPleaseBePatient]

OK cool, sounds like you've thought it through.

To clarify blackstart is starting from zero power situation. I don't know if it refers to the worst case (like accidentally having a dead battery). Or from the likely failure mode (like having some reserve left in the battery).

I have thought it out, but my experience with contactors etc is pretty much nil, so I may have to hire out help to hook that up. I'd prefer to just bang my head into a wall until I can figure it out like anything else though.
The best way I can think of to avoid a black-start issue to to set the bms of the batteries to only go down to 25%, and then when the sun starts shining, go into the bms settings and lower it to 20% (or lower temporarily), which should kickstart both the inverter and the RSD (panels).

 

[zanydroid]

I have thought it out, but my experience with contactors etc is pretty much nil, so I may have to hire out help to hook that up. I'd prefer to just bang my head into a wall until I can figure it out like anything else though.

They're just as easy to wire up as circuit breakers. You would probably end up hiring someone to design it off a forum, might be hard to find a contractor for that, I think most people locally employed to design this stuff from scratch are doing industrial controls etc and not working as resi contractors.

Couple tricky parts - having the appropriate interlocking so that you get the safety properties you want (if relevant, see 3 pole breaking of autotransformers for a spicy one).

Knowing how to find one with, EG, efficient coil with low holding current. I'm using a contactor to interrupt my EVSE right now that uses way too much power to hold the circuit closed, like 10W. Didn't know about this forum back then.

 

[Hedges]

I figure until I get the batteries, the inverter is dead in a power down situation anyways.

Is it? Or does it offer batteryless backup?

The best way I can think of to avoid a black-start issue to to set the bms of the batteries to only go down to 25%, and then when the sun starts shining, go into the bms settings and lower it to 20% (or lower temporarily), which should kickstart both the inverter and the RSD (panels).

Avoid if you can, but if transmitter just needs 12V, car or flashlight batteries could give that. Or tapping cells from system battery. Or maybe just a 9V battery.

Knowing how to find one with, EG, efficient coil with low holding current. I'm using a contactor to interrupt my EVSE right now that uses way too much power to hold the circuit closed, like 10W. Didn't know about this forum back then.

There are relays/contactors with "economizers" that allow higher current for pull-in, lower to hold.
The one I'm using for 100A load-shed is rebranded by SMA SI-LS100. It has two coils, one 10 ohm (5A at 50V!), then when closed switches another coil in series for very low hold current.

Buy ABB Load Shedding Contactor SI LS100-48 | pvXchange.com

3-pole load shedding contactor for off-grid systems, e g with SMA Sunny Island 100 A, 48 V DC, can be used single or multistage Enables consumers/loads to be switched off when the battery charge level is too low

www.pvxchange.com

 

[zanydroid]

There are relays/contactors with "economizers" that allow higher current for pull-in, lower to hold.
The one I'm using for 100A load-shed is rebranded by SMA SI-LS100. It has two coils, one 10 ohm (5A at 50V!), then when closed switches another coil in series for very low hold current.

Buy ABB Load Shedding Contactor SI LS100-48 | pvXchange.com

3-pole load shedding contactor for off-grid systems, e g with SMA Sunny Island 100 A, 48 V DC, can be used single or multistage Enables consumers/loads to be switched off when the battery charge level is too low

www.pvxchange.com

Thanks for the link, really helpful. How much was it? I need one for 50A.

With my current set up the EVSE draws constant 10s of watts which is really not energy efficient.

 

[ImAnIdiotPleaseBePatient]

Is it? Or does it offer batteryless backup?

I don't believe it does, but it would be a lot cooler if it did.

> Avoid if you can, but if transmitter just needs 12V, car or flashlight batteries could give that. Or tapping cells from system battery. Or maybe just a 9V battery.

True, but I hope it doesn't come to this.

> They're just as easy to wire up as circuit breakers. You would probably end up hiring someone to design it off a forum, might be hard to find a contractor for that, I think most people locally employed to design this stuff from scratch are doing industrial controls etc and not working as resi contractors.

Once I break a few things, it will likely come to this. But I'm an optimist, and I always think I can figure it out until I've broken a few hundred dollars of parts.

 

[zanydroid]

True, but I hope it doesn't come to this.

The most foolproof answer might be keeping a small generator around. This is actually how the grid does blackstart as well, they keep expensive black start generators on standby, power those up first, then use those to power up other generators. The small generator might be needed anyway in an emergency correlated with bad weather, when there isn't enough solar. It also provides enough power to simulate the grid. It's not clear to me yet which hybrids can start themselves just from solar energy if the battery got into a bad shape.

 

[Hedges]

Keep a solar panel around. Use it to start charging battery?

Here's a listing in UK, for 95 GBP

SMA Sunny Island Inverters

System manager for all types of energy generators.

www.windandsun.co.uk

ABB makes many versions of this, various coil voltages, auxiliary contacts, etc.
I thought there were 50A ones branded SMA, but not finding immediately.

 

[ImAnIdiotPleaseBePatient]

The most foolproof answer might be keeping a small generator around. This is actually how the grid does blackstart as well, they keep expensive black start generators on standby, power those up first, then use those to power up other generators. The small generator might be needed anyway in an emergency correlated with bad weather, when there isn't enough solar. It also provides enough power to simulate the grid. It's not clear to me yet which hybrids can start themselves just from solar energy if the battery got into a bad shape.

I have a couple small hondas, but they are 120v. But I guess I could use em with a small battery charger (solark takes 240).

 

[629658]

> (Change my mind though)
I can't ?


I hope not, but if they do I guess I will just sell the Deye's and transformer, and purchase 2 solarks. Would be a bummer, but I'm more of the type to ask for forgiveness than permission. What do you think about the wiring though?
I will set to zero export, but it doesn't always work. If it starts backfeeding despite setting it not to, I will also likely have to sell the inverters/transformer.

>Since to me that implies paralleled.
Not sure what you mean by this?

Your Utility will NOT allow this. They will not grant you an interconnection agreement for two reasons. 1 not UL listed, 2 not split phase. No auto transformers allowed. They will fail you on inspection guaranteed. If you go 100% off grid you will be fine but no parallel generation allowed in the US the equipment your listing.

 

[Danke]

Your Utility will NOT allow this. They will not grant you an interconnection agreement for two reasons. 1 not UL listed, 2 not split phase. No auto transformers allowed. They will fail you on inspection guaranteed. If you go 100% off grid you will be fine but no parallel generation allowed in the US the equipment your listing.

Keep reading, he has gone back to Sol-Ark…for now.

Going to have two brand new Deye 16k's for sale here in a month or so ?

 

[629658]

Keep reading, he has gone back to Sol-Ark…for now.

My apologies I’m currently having to apply for a new interconnection agreement since I’ve added ESS so it’s been a process.

 

[ImAnIdiotPleaseBePatient]

My apologies I’m currently having to apply for a new interconnection agreement since I’ve added ESS so it’s been a process.

All good. It has been a long thread and I still have nothing to show yet. If it wasn’t for everyone here, I would completely and utterly F’ed in the A. Flying down to meet with the builder on the 15th so at least I will have some new pics. Trying to get him to put in the fused disconnect and maybe some conduit routing while the walls are still open. Also going to discuss metal-roof details, main panel placement, heat pump appliances, soft-start on AC, and a variable speed pool pump