Partial Off-Grid Setup Thoughts Instead of NetMetering

[ChiefLA]

Hello All…

I am in SE Louisiana and the “Co-op” that I get my power from used to be a huge benefit to owning a home with them as a provider but in the last 5yrs my cost monthly has easily doubled. Recently I downloaded documents from their site to send to the company I was looking to buy a total home power setup using EG4 equipment and then I received a call from their QA/QC Department.

Summarized version is that even though I was choosing to not participate in their Net-Metering program since they only pay .04 for generated power, I was going with a Hybrid setup to be able to purchase power from them when solar wasn’t available. That’s when they informed me that it didn’t matter whether I wanted to sell back or not, I still had to get a NetMeter and they would basically give me credits for solar power generation on my bill. Well after talking to several homes around me they said it’s definitely a scam how it’s required to be done this way because it’s a constant fight with them and they will never adjust back to you unless it can be proven within the NetMeter. While confirming everything with their QA/QC Rep that was clearly aggravated by all of my questions and giving me a response of “Sir, It Is What It Is, as long as your solar setup is touching what our power line is touching, we require the NetMeter setup”!!!

This of course pissed me off but I hung up before she heard my own choice words! LoL

This got me thinking later…What if I isolate the 2-3 biggest consumers of power from “What Touches Their Power Line” and run those in an Off Grid setup by disconnecting from the main box outside & capping the ends then run new power wire for the 2-4ton AC’s and other appliances that cause the higher cost during the Spring & Summer months. This also eliminates all of the permit complexities that they help create since it’s an Off-Grid system. This is the Partial Off-Grid that I was asking about and I would still likely go with the FlexBoss21 & Gridboss setup plus battery backup for nighttime and a generator input for any low solar days which are minimal where I live in SE Louisiana.

I’m wondering/hoping that someone has done something similar and I’ve talked it over with the company I’m purchasing the equipment from and they agree it will work fine. They actually were saying that I wouldn’t need near the “HP” of the FlexBoss21 so we are looking at that also.

Please share any thoughts or experiences! I was already planning to run new power lines for this new setup because of the odd location of the power meter base so the cost has already been figured. I could actually pull the cables that are currently being used but I was leaving everything in place in the event that I sold the house and the new owner didn’t want the setup.

Thank You
Chief

 

[TM48]

Actually it's not a scam. All hybrid inverters back feed the grid momentarily when loads change. So whether you're selling back or not you will feed power to the grid so they require an agreement. That's not the worse part. Your hybrid inverter will shut down when grid power is lost. For these reasons I went partially off grid with an off grid inverter. My range and heat strips on the heat pump are still on grid as is some of my smaller kitchen appliances. A separate load panel feeds solar power to the rewired circuits. The mistake I made was not taking over the existing panel with solar and installing a new grid supplied panel. It would have been less work. Some install generator transfer switches to allow circuit by circuit selection of solar or grid and is easier to wire. The best way to do it depends on what you have and how much you want to power.

 

[Quattrohead]

My first successful use of solar was just taking the AC compressor off the house and running it directly from solar and batteries, worked a treat and reduced my summer bill by 50-60%.
Trying to work with electric companies seems to be getting more and more difficult, give them the middle finger.

 

[PVGeezer]

Hello All…

I am in SE Louisiana and the “Co-op” that I get my power from used to be a huge benefit to owning a home with them as a provider but in the last 5yrs my cost monthly has easily doubled. Recently I downloaded documents from their site to send to the company I was looking to buy a total home power setup using EG4 equipment and then I received a call from their QA/QC Department.

Summarized version is that even though I was choosing to not participate in their Net-Metering program since they only pay .04 for generated power, I was going with a Hybrid setup to be able to purchase power from them when solar wasn’t available. That’s when they informed me that it didn’t matter whether I wanted to sell back or not, I still had to get a NetMeter and they would basically give me credits for solar power generation on my bill. Well after talking to several homes around me they said it’s definitely a scam how it’s required to be done this way because it’s a constant fight with them and they will never adjust back to you unless it can be proven within the NetMeter. While confirming everything with their QA/QC Rep that was clearly aggravated by all of my questions and giving me a response of “Sir, It Is What It Is, as long as your solar setup is touching what our power line is touching, we require the NetMeter setup”!!!

I might be missing something but im not seeing what the problem is with just having the net metering setup with your Coop. The net meter will replace your existing meter so it will be on the grid side of where your EG4 gear is connected. You will be charging your battery directly from your solar array and using that energy first for your loads. You would only be sending out energy and getting the 4 cents credit when you have fully charged batteries and can't use it anyway. So thats a better deal for you than if you went off grid and had to just waste that production. And, you will only be buying energy from them when you don't have enough stored up, which it looks like you want to still be able to do anyway. So I'm not seeing the benefit of separating your system into on and off grid parts.

 

[Quattrohead]

All hybrid inverters back feed the grid momentarily when loads change

No they do not, the EG4 18K PV specifically has a mode to stop that happening.

 

[Quattrohead]

Your hybrid inverter will shut down when grid power is lost

Also not true.

 

[TM48]

No they do not, the EG4 18K PV specifically has a mode to stop that happening.

You'll have to prove that to me. I've never heard of one which didn't.

 

[ChiefLA]

My first successful use of solar was just taking the AC compressor off the house and running it directly from solar and batteries, worked a treat and reduced my summer bill by 50-60%.
Trying to work with electric companies seems to be getting more and more difficult, give them the middle finger.

Awesome Damned Response! LoL!

I figured someone out there had done this or had insight and now I know it can be done.

Yes they are definitely much more painful to deal with and want to still control what you take from them yet they won’t invest in anything to help offset the cost on their side!

Thanks for your response!

 

[ChiefLA]

Also not true.

I’ve discussed this with EG4 and they said it does not because it’s no different than being in an outage.

 

[TM48]

Also not true.

It will if you don't have an auto transfer switch. I seem to remember 1741SB? mandates it.

 

[ChiefLA]

It will if you don't have an auto transfer switch. I seem to remember 1741SB? mandates it.

Ok let’s take the Hybrid Inverter out of the equation then since the company I’m buying from has suggested a cheaper alternative to the partial off-grid setup.

 

[TM48]

Ok let’s take the Hybrid Inverter out of the equation then since the company I’m buying from has suggested a cheaper alternative to the partial off-grid setup.

That's what I did and I'm glad I did. As Quattrohead pointed out power companies are a PITA and any "agreement" with them is subject to change at their whim.

​

 

[ChiefLA]

Actually it's not a scam. All hybrid inverters back feed the grid momentarily when loads change. So whether you're selling back or not you will feed power to the grid so they require an agreement. That's not the worse part. Your hybrid inverter will shut down when grid power is lost. For these reasons I went partially off grid with an off grid inverter. My range and heat strips on the heat pump are still on grid as is some of my smaller kitchen appliances. A separate load panel feeds solar power to the rewired circuits. The mistake I made was not taking over the existing panel with solar and installing a new grid supplied panel. It would have been less work. Some install generator transfer switches to allow circuit by circuit selection of solar or grid and is easier to wire. The best way to do it depends on what you have and how much you want to power.

Well it is the way this Co-op handles things so that’s not anything I’m interested in pursuing or discussing. Even the Public Service Commissioner is against their practices.

 

[ChiefLA]

That's what I did and I'm glad I did. As Quattrohead pointed out power companies are a PITA and any "agreement" with them is subject to change at their whim.

​

Exactly! They’re constantly making changes specifically to this area to deter new growth due to the rising costs they pass on to us.

 

[Quattrohead]

You'll have to prove that to me. I've never heard of one which didn't.

The 18 kpv inverter has an off-grid mode, where it completely disconnects from the grid except for monitoring it and staying in sync with it.
If it ever needs it in an emergency like an overload or critically low batteries, it will then connect to the grid and recharge the batteries or supply load.

 

[Quattrohead]

Ok let’s take the Hybrid Inverter out of the equation then since the company I’m buying from has suggested a cheaper alternative to the partial off-grid setup.

The 6-12000XP units are not hybrid but can still use the grid if necessary, and hence less expensive.
Better choice for you.

 

[TM48]

The 18 kpv inverter has an off-grid mode, where it completely disconnects from the grid except for monitoring it and staying in sync with it.
If it ever needs it in an emergency like an overload or critically low batteries, it will then connect to the grid and recharge the batteries or supply load.

OK but it's not in a hybrid mode so it would have to be able to supply the whole load. You would not be doing net zero. (blended)

 

[timselectric]

In my opinion, a hybrid AIO in "off-grid mode" is a big waste of money.
You are paying extra for the hybrid functionality, that you aren't using.
And you are still required (by almost all utility companies) to have an agreement.
Save your money with an off-grid AIO, and you can buy more batteries.

 

[Kornbread]

Hello All…

I am in SE Louisiana and the “Co-op” that I get my power from used to be a huge benefit to owning a home with them as a provider but in the last 5yrs my cost monthly has easily doubled. Recently I downloaded documents from their site to send to the company I was looking to buy a total home power setup using EG4 equipment and then I received a call from their QA/QC Department.

Summarized version is that even though I was choosing to not participate in their Net-Metering program since they only pay .04 for generated power, I was going with a Hybrid setup to be able to purchase power from them when solar wasn’t available. That’s when they informed me that it didn’t matter whether I wanted to sell back or not, I still had to get a NetMeter and they would basically give me credits for solar power generation on my bill. Well after talking to several homes around me they said it’s definitely a scam how it’s required to be done this way because it’s a constant fight with them and they will never adjust back to you unless it can be proven within the NetMeter. While confirming everything with their QA/QC Rep that was clearly aggravated by all of my questions and giving me a response of “Sir, It Is What It Is, as long as your solar setup is touching what our power line is touching, we require the NetMeter setup”!!!

This of course pissed me off but I hung up before she heard my own choice words! LoL

This got me thinking later…What if I isolate the 2-3 biggest consumers of power from “What Touches Their Power Line” and run those in an Off Grid setup by disconnecting from the main box outside & capping the ends then run new power wire for the 2-4ton AC’s and other appliances that cause the higher cost during the Spring & Summer months. This also eliminates all of the permit complexities that they help create since it’s an Off-Grid system. This is the Partial Off-Grid that I was asking about and I would still likely go with the FlexBoss21 & Gridboss setup plus battery backup for nighttime and a generator input for any low solar days which are minimal where I live in SE Louisiana.

I’m wondering/hoping that someone has done something similar and I’ve talked it over with the company I’m purchasing the equipment from and they agree it will work fine. They actually were saying that I wouldn’t need near the “HP” of the FlexBoss21 so we are looking at that also.

Please share any thoughts or experiences! I was already planning to run new power lines for this new setup because of the odd location of the power meter base so the cost has already been figured. I could actually pull the cables that are currently being used but I was leaving everything in place in the event that I sold the house and the new owner didn’t want the setup.

Thank You
Chief

So ... our local coop was more solar friendly when first contacted several years ago, but has since backpedaled considerably. We are in similar situations with my coop demanding liability insurance and paying for the cost of a new transformer plus labor to install.

Now in the process of moving hvac loads from grid to solar. Yes, it costs conduit, trenching, and wire to get power from the shed back to the house. Yes, I will be wasting some solar production, but moving loads off grid should cut monthly elec bills by, fingers crossed, ~30%, possibly more. After several months of decreased poco consumption, I'm sure they will send someone out to investigate and I'll have to prove the solar system is not connected to grid, in any way. At the very least, I expect they will require some kind of external disconnect to the power shed, for their safety of course. Since the local poco have become so solar unfriendly, a quarrelsome song and dance is expected.

 

[MisterSandals]

but in the last 5yrs my cost monthly has easily doubled.

Just out of curiosity, what cost per kWh are you unhappy with and hoping be better?

oops, sorry, i missed .04. Dang that is about half of what a decent systems, bought on the cheap, costs to buy and maintain, when everything works out.

 

[1201]

0.04 for generated power is better than 0.00

Being connected to the grid also had the benefit of allowing you to get the most out of your system.

You dont have to oversize the inverter just to handle surge loads, as the grid takes care of surge loads

You're not switching the grid relay in your off grid inverter back and forth when the battery goes down, reducing the life of the relay

You're able to use solar and battery to offset ALL your house loads, instead of just a handful with an off grid setup.

 

[ChiefLA]

0.04 for generated power is better than 0.00

Being connected to the grid also had the benefit of allowing you to get the most out of your system.

You dont have to oversize the inverter just to handle surge loads, as the grid takes care of surge loads

You're not switching the grid relay in your off grid inverter back and forth when the battery goes down, reducing the life of the relay

You're able to use solar and battery to offset ALL your house loads, instead of just a handful with an off grid setup.

Not interested in grid tied anymore because of all the power company’s requirements and I just needed to know if anyone had done this before and got some good feedback for this effort.

Thanks

 

[TM48]

0.04 for generated power is better than 0.00

Being connected to the grid also had the benefit of allowing you to get the most out of your system.

You dont have to oversize the inverter just to handle surge loads, as the grid takes care of surge loads

You're not switching the grid relay in your off grid inverter back and forth when the battery goes down, reducing the life of the relay

You're able to use solar and battery to offset ALL your house loads, instead of just a handful with an off grid setup.

Well for me it was more to provide power even when the grid is down. The initial idea was critical loads only. That rapidly changed to add air conditioning (half the bill) , some of the kitchen and all the lighting.

 

[ChiefLA]

Well for me it was more to provide power even when the grid is down. The initial idea was critical loads only. That rapidly changed to add air conditioning (half the bill) , some of the kitchen and all the lighting.

That’s my goal to impact my bill that much!

I’ve already installed Soft-Starts on both my units so that function is already present and works impressively to reduce the In-Rush Amperage on each unit. They made all the difference when we had an outage and needed to run off generators.

TM48 , Thanks again for your responses!

 

[TM48]

Yeah I installed a soft start on the AC too.