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PG&E blowing smoke up my ***, or is there truth, what do you think?

wwwdiys

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Hi All,
So a month has finally passed where I can take a look at my PGE solar bill, and it's WAYYYYYYYYYYYYY OFF. I produced 800 kWh in the month of August, and my bill says I used 550, so how can I possibly still owe $150.00? Their graph barely shows any green (production) compared to the blue (consumption). I called them and they said it could take a few billing cycles to process and i'll be retro paid. Does this sound right to anybody out there in California, or are they blowin smoke?

More smoke blowing read on: My panels should produce around 5100 peak watts, 12 panels x 425 watts. Now I know you never get the full efficiency, but my peak is around 4000k and never higher. I called Enphase and they told me there is some California Regulation that governs your panels down 20% of what they can produce???? SAY WHAT? They said it's built into the software and any system is governed down 20%, This would definitely explain my peak output, but is this information true or are they blowing smoke? I find this ridiculous, and can't find anything online regarding this regulation.
 
More smoke blowing read on: My panels should produce around 5100 peak watts, 12 panels x 425 watts. Now I know you never get the full efficiency, but my peak is around 4000k and never higher. I called Enphase and they told me there is some California Regulation that governs your panels down 20% of what they can produce???? SAY WHAT? They said it's built into the software and any system is governed down 20%, This would definitely explain my peak output, but is this information true or are they blowing smoke? I find this ridiculous, and can't find anything online regarding this regulation.
That sounds like complete BS to me..... I have heard nothing of the sort. Plus I have never seen a site that sells a 'california special' version of the product like we used to see with the CA car emission requirements. If you find any evidence this is true, please let me know.

20% less than the STC rating of a panel is on the higher end of the difference typically seen, but it is not unheard of, particularly in hot weather.

BTW: I have heard talk of requiring Solar systems to have the functionality to let the utility throttle back what gets fed to the grid if the system is getting over powered, but I don' think it has gone anywhere....yet

So a month has finally passed where I can take a look at my PGE solar bill, and it's WAYYYYYYYYYYYYY OFF. I produced 800 kWh in the month of August, and my bill says I used 550, so how can I possibly still owe $150.00? Their graph barely shows any green (production) compared to the blue (consumption). I called them and they said it could take a few billing cycles to process and i'll be retro paid. Does this sound right to anybody out there in California, or are they blowin smoke?
Sadly, PG&E is notorious for getting the solar billing screwed up when you first start up solar. One thing they do is only read your meter every other month and estimate the bill based on some historical average during the 'off' months. Then, if you suddenly have a big change in usage, the estimates are way off and it takes them a while to sort it out. I even heard one story where they failed to account for the fact that a new meter got installed and the billing system assumed the old meter had rolled over and gone back to zero....creating something like a $500K bill!! (I don't think that is common)

So, the kind of crap you are seeing is not unusual, but PG&E can and should do better. The only good news is that as far as I know they eventually do get it sorted out.
 
Produced 800 and received credit for 550 seems about right and I expect is correct.
The missing 250 was directly consumed straight from your inverter to your air conditioner.
You only get credit for excess power actually put back in the grid.

4kW peak? What is the inverter rating? Mine is 2500w and on a perfect cool day will clip power if my panels produce a bit more.

Rare to never will you get 5100 watts unless perfectly clean and pointed direct at the sun on the summer solstice.
 
Thanks for the reply, I'll update this post as I learn more. I'm sure PGE is just behind on updating their system.
I'm still really concerned about my panels peak output and I don't believe the BS the Enphase tech told me about 20% throttling on PV equipment mandated regulation by some underground government network :) that is just stupid talk. I wrote an email to Q-Cell in Irvine, CA and we'll see what they say, because my efficiency rating per panel is only +/- 5% for the first year, not 20% which is what I get now, on a hot or cold day with direct sun overhead. I guess in some way we are subject to the manufactures claims (STC) as to what a panel can produce, this would really be unfair as I paid a bit extra for 430 panels and only getting what a 350 watt panel would produce. Stay tuned.
 
PGE has been doing solar for a long time. I would assume their numbers are correct.

Solar production would be a question to your installer. I doubt this time of year is optimal for solar production. Going to go lower as we head into fall and winter. Rebound will be spring to early summer.
 
I agree with you, but this is not the case with PGE, I called and talked to their solar techs twice, and they didn't have any answers other than, check back in a month and or maybe we'll send a tech out..blah blah, so I'm waiting another month for my next bill.

I have spoken to my solar installer as well as my brother that installs solar panels and they both think my production is way lower than it should be given my PV setup, my last hope is that Q-cell can shed some light on their own panels and their production.
 
I agree with you, but this is not the case with PGE, I called and talked to their solar techs twice, and they didn't have any answers other than, check back in a month and or maybe we'll send a tech out..blah blah, so I'm waiting another month for my next bill.

I have spoken to my solar installer as well as my brother that installs solar panels and they both think my production is way lower than it should be given my PV setup, my last hope is that Q-cell can shed some light on their own panels and their production.
Do you have any neighbors with solar or a local community solar facebook group or forum? Talking to anyone else local to you about their solar production might help shed some light. Heck eventually you'll find some locals on this forum (probably). Did you go through the introduction thread?
 
It depends who and how production is being monitored. If you are looking at the power company site they are probably showing net production, which is production minus consumption. But you may have away to directly monitor your inverter or meter to see total production.
 
PGE has been doing solar for a long time. I would assume their numbers are correct.
When my buddy who lives in my town had his 20?kw roof top grid tie system (enphase) go online. it took the power company like 3 months to work out the billing. They most defiantly did not have it correct for the first 2 months and our guess is would have continued to be F'd up if he hadn't called like 3 times to inform them that it wasn't correct and why wasn't it correct. (kept being told, it'll be corrected, just takes time)
 
Can’t you measure your own solar production so you have real data to refute them with ?
 
My understanding is that Enphase makes the per panel grid tie inverters in set sizes, and what is installed on each panel is almost always lower output than the panel limit.

In other words, it is entirely likely your 400+ watt panels have a 350 watt inverter installed.
 
The power you are getting out seems in the ball park. Along with the other questions above, what roof angle, what direction and what latitude are you?
 
I produced 800 kWh in the month of August, and my bill says I used 550, so how can I possibly still owe $150.00? Their graph barely shows any green (production) compared to the blue (consumption).

More smoke blowing read on: My panels should produce around 5100 peak watts, 12 panels x 425 watts.

5.1kW peak x 5 hours effective sun x 30 days = 765 kWh/month, so 800 kWh production would be reasonable.

800 kWh/30days/4000W = 6.7 hours effective sun.
You have 425W panels on Enphase inverters. What is the wattage output of each inverter? Those are normally over-paneled, so will clip at maximum output.
4000W/12 panels = 333W/inverter peak

Do you have a bill from an earlier summer month to compare?
If you consume 1350 kWh/month and produce 800 kWh, net bill would be 550 kWh consumed.

$150 / 550 kWh = $0.27/kWh
Do you have time of use rates? or tiered pricing depending on consumption?
Those can affect your bill. In my case peak rates are 4:00 PM to 9:00 PM, but most of my production is earlier in the day.
 
The typical Enphase IQ7+ made for 72 cell solar panels has a maximum output of 290 Watts regardless of what solar panel you have them connected to. If you have 12 panels, I would expect your system to max out at 3480 Watts. Do you know what model of micro inverter you have?
 
One thing they do is only read your meter every other month and estimate the bill based on some historical average during the 'off' months.
If the OP has a smart meter it actually transmits data back to PG&E every day. Any PG&E customer can verify this by logging on to PG&E and viewing the prior days activity. In some cases this is available in hourly increments by day.
 
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