Planning a Tiny Solar System for a Lovely Remote Place [PICS]

[peba]

TL;DR looking for suggestions on what should I build to power this tiny house where only relatively small appliances will be used like a laptop and a cellphone.

Hey everyone!

Yup, yet another guy asking for guidance from the pros! Well, that would be me
I come across this board and thought it would be a good idea to share my story and include some pictures to make this thread a bit more interesting on the long run.

Who am I?

Since this is going to be my first post on this board, let me give you a real quick introduction. My name's Balázs and I'm a 32 yrs old software developer from Hungary. I've been messing with electronics for a few years now, nothing extraordinary but I believe I have a good understanding of how electricity works (both DC and AC). I put my hands on every resource I could find to learn and to understand how this amazing phenomenon works, and man I gotta tell you I just love it, it's so freaking cool! I've been playing with Arduinos, ESP boards, I know how to use a multimeter, how to solder, burnt LEDs, resistors and the likes, you get the idea.

While I'm not new to this world, I'm certainly not a professional, more like a hobbyist.

Why am I posting here?

I figured I have enough general knowledge to tinker with electrical gear on my own but every once in a while I need some external help to figure out "what's next". This kind of approach was fruitful before (I was restoring a gaming console) so why wouldn't it be the same with solar? This community here on this board seems to be a solid one, and I'm pretty sure there are amazing people out there willing to help.

Some background

I have a tiny house in a remote place. It's sitting on top of a wine cellar, my grandpa built it cca ~30 years ago. Unfortunately the winery part of this area is pretty much gone (it's a shame) but I like to go and spend some time there once in a while simply because it's quiet and relaxing (plus childhood flashbacks). I guess just by looking at the photos you must have already figured it's a place located off-grid, the nearest powerline is about 3 kilometers away, so traditional ways of brining electricity there is off the table. I'd like to spend more time there, like 3-4 days a month so I could bring my laptop, cellphone (got 4G coverage) and once I'm done with work I can shut my computer and let it charge (well, I need to charge it while working too). But right now it's impossible.

What am I trying to accomplish?

I'd like to build a tiny solar system as cheap as possible to power a few, low-power appliances while I'm there.

These are:

• a 2016 Macbook Pro (it's charger is USB Type-C, wall charger is 61W, 20.3V, 3A)
• a regular Huawei smartphone (with a fast charger)
• some LED stripe lights
• (maybe) a small water heater (to make coffee and tea)
• (maybe) a digital clock
• (maybe) webcam with a Raspberry + SIM card 4G internet thing just for fun

How much sunlight are there on a sunny summer day?

A lot. Practically there are no shadows on the roof at all.

And on a winter day?

Not much. You know, it's just daylight, but sometimes it's a sparkling sunshine. You never know.

Additional information

Since I am using developer tools, WiFi and video calls on my laptop, it's draining it's battery quite fast.
Same applies for my smartphone when it's sharing internet on WiFi.

My assumptions

Since I'm planning to stay there for just a few days in a row occasionally, I guess my best shot is to have a rather big battery or battery bank that I can drain with my appliances so it will have plenty of time to recharge even with a smaller solar panel.

• Can I get away with cheaper panels I can buy on eBay or AliExpress?
• What type of battery should I use?
• Should I invest on a more robust one instead?
• What kind of cables should I use to interconnect the parts together?
• What type of charge controller is ideal for this setup?
• Do I really need an inverter to power my appliances? (I mean these are having their own batteries afterall except the water heater)
• Can I leave this system "on" even if I'm not visiting the place for months?

Well, that's it. I don't really want to spend a fortune on it really, let's see if some of you guys have a suggestion on where should I start, I appreciate every comment. Sorry for being so exhaustive on the circumstances and writing all this wall of text, I just wanted to give my story some charm

Looking forward to read your posts. Thank you.


No electricity here, all we have is sunshine, wind and some occasional water flow from the roof when it's raining


We can build something to the roof to hold the panel(s)


Can't beat the view!


This can crank up my laptop's battery in no time


Same applies here, 50% charge in like 30 minutes

 

[jasonhc73]

How cheap do you want to go?
How much is it needed?

I would go with about 300 to 1000 watts of solar panels. 1 to 4 used ones on eBay are all over the place at really good prices.
I would go with lead-acid batteries for now (cheaper) and since such low use expected, it should meet your needs fine.


This is maybe a $400 setup with batteries.

10A-30A MPPT Solar Charger Controller 12V/24V USB Dual Solar Panel Regulator | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 10A-30A MPPT Solar Charger Controller 12V/24V USB Dual Solar Panel Regulator at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

1000w Power Inverter Truck/rv 12v DC to 110v AC Converter W Dual Outlets 2 for sale online | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 1000w Power Inverter Truck/rv 12v DC to 110v AC Converter W Dual Outlets 2 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

| eBay

Renogy Solar Panel Z bracket Mounting Flat Roof Wall Mounts Brackets 1/2/4 Sets | eBay

Renogy Solar Panel Mounting Z Bracket -- 1 Set of 4 / 2 Sets of 8 / 4 Sets of 16. The Renogy Z-Bracket Mount System is designed to support the installation of single solar panel units, generally in off-grid installations.

www.ebay.com

Or just lean them against the wall/fence/whatever.

You will need a few tools, wire, and connectors. Strippers/Crimpers and maybe MC4 connector tool. But it's not really "required".

I just realized you are probably not in the USA, so getting used Panels will be a little bit trickier. They are all over the place here.

 

[45North]

Sounds wonderful! And an ideal application for solar. I see some shadows on the roof. I hope that's the north side.
I'd suggest sticking to DC if you can and avoid the losses of an inverter. Most of the items in your list seemed to be DC powered anyway and for some you may have to shop around a bit. With your background this should be easy.

I don't know how cold and snowy it gets there or if you will go in the winter but you may have to think about:

• any snow accumulation needs to be cleared off the panels
• most Li batteries may be used below 0C but must not be charged below 0C or will be destroyed.

I'm no expert but you're welcome to take a look at my small system (show-and-tell link below) for what it's worth. A scaled-up version of this might suit your needs.

 

[peba]

I'm in Europe, Hungary. I believe it's kind of pointless to talk about prices too as generally things are a lot cheaper here.

Those trees are gone, no shadows ever since.
Snow is not a problem anymore (I blame it on global warming).
The batteries would stay inside the house in a room but without heating it might get rather cold, close to zero Celsius if not below.

I can live without an inverter, converting DC to AC and AC to DC again sounds pointless indeed.

Charging a smartphone from a 5V USB might be enough, most charge controllers have 1-2 USB ports on them, I don't need AC for that.
The biggest hurdle here is to figure out how to charge the computer with let's say 12 or 24 Volts not using it's wall charger (but something else).

I think I can charge my laptop with a 5V power source as well but it's rather slow (it's using up more juice than it's getting back to it's battery) but honestly I have no idea how 5V can be enough to charge a 20V-something battery in it. Step up converter maybe, I don't know. Guess what I need here is a steady and rather high current to keep it charged while using and putting loads on the CPU.

If I can build a system that can last like 1 day, that's a start and I can scale up from there.

What's the problem with these cheap chinese panels anyway? Yes I know they are probably crap and produce almost nothing, but as I mentioned I have plenty of time to recharge my battery. And if it ever gets stolen I wouldn't mind (because unfortunately that's a possibility there too) since the house is kind of located on nomans land so to speak and long weeks can pass between two visits.

 

[45North]

Mebbe you could get a car adapter for your computer then put a female cigarette lighter plug on your battery or controller load out terminal.

 

[Steve_S]

Welcome to the forum.
Take your time, learn then come up with a plan BEFORE buying anything and then take it one step at a time.
The photo's remind me of our Vineyard outside of Pecs, up the southern slope there, was a lovely relaxing and calming place. Ahhh the memories - pushing the Trabant up the hill in the rain on the muddy bit of the road... ohhh what fun... * I am First Generation Canadian and wanted to take advantage of the repatriation & citizenship but by the time I wanted to do it, the Government changed the rules... My Girlfriend is Polish American (1st generation as well) and she did it with her Polish Citizenship lucky for her.

My suggestion would be to look towards a 1000W Solar System: 1000W of panel. ( 4x250W +)
- Much is available in Europe and many used panels deals are to be had as well, with some careful shopping you can get great deals.
- Roof mounting is certainly one option BUT with your tile roof it presents certain issues. An adjustable Rack is the best option really and in fact you are very close to the same numbers my property has here in Canada. SEE Solar Angle Image below. It does not appear that the roof is East-West aligned but rather North-South, if N-S it is not really very suitable.
- Would suggest looking towards a 24 Volt Battery system as you need 230VAC / 50Hz Single Phase. Given your intentions, probably 200 - 300Ahrs would more than suit the purpose and yet remain portable so you could take it with you when not in residence. As your using the old Wine Cellar, you have a frost free place that you could also store the battery / batteries in if you chose to do so.
- For Solar Charge Controller & Inverter I can easily suggest Victron but It is more expensive because they are Tier-1 Quality product but it's excellent equipment, great support & terrific warranty should anything go amiss. Because you are in Hungary, you have access to some offerings there that are not available in North America. Their Easy Solar Family of product for example.

Everything can be built in a Modular Fashion, and then you can step up and upgrade as you grow into the system BUT this can only be done if you have a good plan that includes doing that. You may fid you can get High Quality used Panels REALLY CHEAP compared to fresh & new and now days they are the cheapest single piece of the whole deal, compared to Solar Charge Controllers (SCC's) or Inverter/Chargers. Wine cellars rarely get cold enough to freeze (would ruin the wine right) so you could use a small battery warmer triggered to keep the batteries above 2 Celsius, which would use little power if done properly.

The RV/Cabin 24V system described here is good. Look for the Growatt Combo All-In-One as that is more appropriate for you in Europe in my opinion and "Bang per Forint" you get a great deal of good equipment for the price (a cheaper alternative to Victron but good quality Tier-2 product.) https://www.mobile-solarpower.com/all-in-one-solar-power-packages.html

Alternatively this 2000 watt, 24v Off-grid solar power system here: https://www.mobile-solarpower.com/2000-watt-24v-solar-system.html is a good basic system with ONE Exception, I cannot recommend a "Car Inverter" which is High Frequency EVER. As your going to depend on it and using fine electronics I "strongly" recommend a good Low Frequency Inverter which unfortunately cost more but won't fry your electronics.

BTW: Some of the BEST Solar Panels come from China so don't be throwing rocks in a glass house EH ! My own are Canadian Solar (which is a Chinese Company) that makes panels in China & Canada. Hanwah Q.Cells are very popular in EU and Korean Made by German Company.


Solar Angle Calculator SOURCE: http://www.solarelectricityhandbook.com/solar-angle-calculator.html

Hope that Helps, Good Luck.
Steve "Istvan" and NEVER call me the Nickname !!

PS my signature has links to information if you are interested.

 

[peba]

Hahaha Steve, calling you on your nickname in Canada must surely raise eyebrows (btw, you have to pronounce the "Is" as "Ish") :D
Loved your story with the Trabant in Pécs though. Small world, huh...

Anyway. I appreciate your detailed input! Wow man, there's a lot to learn about this technology. Seems to be a pricey hobby for now at least if I decide to go big. "Problem" is, that place is so remote. And I mean it. You have to leave your car at a certain point and walk like 15 minutes because there's literally no road (at least not for cars) so moving any kind of heavy equipment to and from the house is bit of a pain. Imagine that walking in a whopping 40 degrees of Celsius in summer heat. Fun. For a while.

I have a feeling I should stay on the safe side - at least monetarily - and start tinkering with smaller systems just to get the hang of it. I'm afraid all that investment would not worth it. I love this house but it's far from my home. I have to drive 40kms first just to get there. And than a lovely 15 mins walk, uphill.

Maybe all I need is two deep cycle batteries that I can charge at home, carry with myself, use 'em and that's it. Yet solar is fun and entertaining but spending way too much money on something that has no future is not a wise thing to do either (I mean I'm not gonna live there and it's not under surveillance, and building an expensive setup to use like 15-20 days a year is an overkill). What might cheap for someone it might be expensive for me. Definitely not beer money that we are talking about here.

The cellar is not that big, has enough rooms for 6 barrels and its wet, like always. We used to have a car battery there but it's sitting in the cellar for quite some time now (it's dead) but trust me, it's not in good shape :D

I might look into windpower or do something with falling rain (it's tunneled into two barrels in the cellar from the roof).

That's the reason why I started this thread. To see what others think, and to learn a bit more about the technology. The last thing I want to is to end up having expensive equipment I cannot put in good use.

 

[Steve_S]

Hahahaha... funny you say that you have to walk 15 minutes up the old Cart Paths... That is where we used to push the Trabant through LOL... I know EXACTLY what you means... we had 20 Large Barrels and roughly 20 small barrels and then of course the "family barrels" which we can't talk about. Nothing like a good shpritz on a hot summer day.

Maybe one of the Potable Power supplies like the Bluetti would be better suited and some can take a couple of panels too which would be simple enough and keep you going for a while.

I speak Magyar and know how to pronounce my name, unfortunately I have not been able to speak Hungarian with anyone for 2 decades now and am getting quite rusty.

 

[Aussie]

Just a suggestion. I only play and am NOT an expert. I would suggest 1 x solar panel Maybe 200 watts 1 x cheap regulater a small cig lighter plug in inverter for the computer. and a lead acid or vrla battery. Of all these components, the battery would be the most expensive here in australia. Could get a second hand battery. Forget about using power for a heater. Not going to work. Best of luck

 

[Craig]

I wouldn't write off long term usage if your tiny home. I imagine there are a few million people right now who would love to be isolated in the hills.

 

[45North]

How about an ATV, golf cart, or ebike with batteries you can hack.
Plus a trailer for your car or make friends with the local farmer for storage.

 

[peba]

For the sake of future Google users trying to find a solution for this particular problem I should add something like...

How to charge a Macbook Pro 2016 (touchbar/non-touchbar) with a 12V car battery and with solar panels?

I know it's not entirely a solar related issue, but hey, I'm just thinking out loud and maybe someone will stumble upon my post later in Google so why not give something back to the community, right?

I did some research. While I don't have the exact answer to the question above (yet) I want to share my findings, so anyone reading this who wants to charge their Macbook take it with a grain of salt please, and also a disclaimer: if you're Mac gets broken because of this, I'm not responsible. Do it at your own risk.

First of all, USB PD (Power Delivery) is going to be my savior I guess. It's a relatively new technology. Lemme show you a chart real quick:



Interesting. The "old" USB power throughput is relatively low.
But the oh-so-great USB Type-C cables (some can carry up to 5 Amps) combined with the USB PD technology is a different ballgame.

Let's see why.

My Mac has two Type-C ports (or Thunderbolt ports, doesn't really matter how Apple is calling it).

It's default wall brick charger can charge it with 61 Watts max. I guess we need that much juice when the machine is under heavy load.
Funny thing is, between the computer and the wall brick there's a Type-C to Type-C cable which means, it's using USB PD. Not to mention there's also a label about it on the charger (check initial posts's images). What this means is whenever I plug in any compatible charger the computer is negotiating it's thing with the device.

Now comes the fun part.

I have a different brick, it's just a regular USB-A charger, 5V 3A output max. I also have a USB Type-A to Type-C cable.
The computer is alive an kicking, happily pulling 2.4 Amps at 5 Volts (I have a meter display on the charger). What? How? I have literally no idea how it's doing it (maybe there's a boost converter in the Mac) but I'm pretty sure the battery in this computer is not a 5V piece (someone care to explain please?)

Under load this setup can charge the computer with 10-12 Watts. Anyway, seems to be working, accoring to the battery indicator in Mac OS I'm hovering at 60% right now, so what I get I use up pretty much immediately. I just turned off the backlight on the keyboard and now it's jumped to 61%. (while re-reading the post before submitting it has jumped to 62%)

But wait, there's more!

I ordered one of these just to play with it (in case the link is broken search for a USB PD Type-C cigarette plug phone charger for cars on eBay).
And probably that's exactly what I need. A real PD device. Connect it to the computer let 'em negotiate their thing and voila, we have a steady flow of current at the best possible voltage it can provide. Hopefully. In the comments someone has mentioned it's possible to charge a 2019 Macbook Air with it. That laptop is quite identical to mine so I'm really confident it will work.

Yeah, 18 Watts arent much (that's the promise of the charger you can plug into your car) but if it can keep my computer alive while I'm working on it, I'm happy. Still better than 12 Watts. Charging a cellphone can be done too as it has two sockets, yay! Or I will another one it's dirt cheap afterall.

If it's gonna work, I don't need an inverter at all. Everything I want can be done with DC.
Coffee, tea and warm water can be produced with different established technologies. Like fire. I have a stove in the house with a portable natural gas tank anyway.

I guess now all I really need is a panel, a solid battery, some cables and a charge controller. Simple.
Thanks for reading and sorry for being a bit off-topic. Looking forward to hear your thoughts guys.

 

[offgriddle]

I cannot even afford the "e" in poe, so as a po person rocking it third world in a first world nation, I can suggest the beginner's El cheapo journey that I embarked upon:

Two, 100 watt solar panels wired in series and mounted on a homemade wooden stand, aimed for maximum solar gain for mid winter at high noon.

One MPPT solar charge controller, minimal of 40 amps @ 150 vdc input, 12 & 24 VDC output, basic is good to begin with.

40 amps of lifepo's @ 12 or 24 volts.
(Lifepo's cannot be allowed to freeze).

#6 gauge copper stranded wire from PV panels to SCC.

A 1,000 watt box store 12 VDC to 115 VAC invertor.

Don't forget to fuse the positive lead at the battery and at the panels.

Unless you live in an exceptionally cloudy region, this should run the items you mentioned and is easily expandable if not.

Respectfully yours, the forever newbie.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

I have nothing to add. Yet.
LOVED reading this. Updates????

40kilometers ain’t a far drive to me, I drive 5000 miles/month for work and 15 minute walk? Like a mile. Excellent. Just enough to keep the riffraff away. I’m pretty remote here in Vermont USA but I still get lusty when I drive 15 miles of dirt road with no power or houses or much of anything.

update this please with s nice long write up

 

[peba]

Hello folks! Yeah, I know it's been a while since I last posted. Life threw things on me and I had to deal with that first but I didn't give up my dream to install a few panels on my remote cabin So I thought it's time for an update and I would also like to ask for some help before I do anything stupid (like fire or electrocuted).

Many of you might not like the idea to install slightly damaged panels but I think I'm gonna do that anyway. Why? I managed to get my hands on a few of these Amerisolars real cheap and I brought four of it to the house. 18 kg a piece took me a while to bring it up there, that was an exercise for sure! (its 15 mins uphill from the parking space in rather bad road conditions even for walking).

So, last week finally my dad offered me his help to install these things on the roof. We decided to go full DIY on the mounting but he's good at things like this so it's not going to come off that roof anytime soon trust me.

So far we have installed two of these panels, hopefully another two will be there making it a total of four.

Alright, you are probably concerned about the condition of the panels. Soon I'll be posting a few close up pictures about them. It's just the glass or plexi or whatever it is that's borken the wires are intact inside. They do produce electricity. So yeah, probably this is not recommended by the book to install broken panels on your house but considering I'm on a budget with this plus this house is so remote from the populated area there is no human life or property at risk if anything goes wrong. I would not do it on my house where I live, don't worry

In the meantime I got myself a whole bunch of solar stuff, MC4 connectors, inline fuses (4x10A), branch adapters, solar cables, a cheapo PWM controller which is probably was just a waste of money and I collected a few spare 12V car batteries from friends for testing and playing. Yeah I know I would need deep cycles but those cost a fortune so I decided that over time, I'll grab one or two.

We are getting close to that phase where the 4 panels are on the roof and I'm looking for ideas on how to hook things up and how to do it properly, securely. I did some tests in my backyard for a while with that cheap PWM controller and that lousy battery and it seemed to be working but I'm still trying to wrap my head around this. I definitely want to invest on an MPPT but man, those things cost a fortune. I was thinking about creating two small systems separately with 2-2 panels, I don't really want to power big things and from the battery I'll use the DC power directly to drive those kinds of appliances that you can plug in a car's cigar lighter, you get the idea. A pure sine inverter maybe later, it's an overkill for now. Speaking of overkill, 4 280W panels might be an overkill too

Okay, so that's all there is to it for now. That's my dad there. I'm proud of him, cuz he's 75 and did the mounting entierly on his own! I just had to assist from the ground.

Looking forward to hear your opinions, suggestions. Yes I know I am another noob (even though I have learned a lot about electricity just because of this project) however this place is so close to my heart I really want to make it happen so any help is much appreciated.

More pics soon!

 

[jbird526]

I definitely want to invest on an MPPT but man, those things cost a fortune.

Not sure if you decided on 12v vs 24 volt yet. If you go 24v you can save money on an MPPT as they generally can input 2x the wattage. With your older 280 watt panels, they may only be @220? Anyway I have had luck using this MPPT and doesn't break the bank. MC2440N10 SRNE

 

[Aussie]

Good on yea! Live your dream!!

 

[x98myers7]

Love it! absolutely beautiful country, reminds me of home (Michigan). I spent a few weeks in Slovakia and Hungary in 2000; someday I hope to go back.

i have a 100w DIY portable solar generator that I often use for my workstation at home. my LED monitors both only take up about 25w and my Macbook charger rarely pulls more than 10-15w when constantly plugged in. you'd be surprised what you can power with a 50AH lifepo battery, 200w of solar and a 1500w inverter!

the great part about solar is that you can start small and scale pretty easily as funds allow. just make sure you're doing it safely as series combined strings result in high voltage. even at low amps, it can kill you instantly.