Please check my paper setup! 48v, dual 10,000 quattro's

[scrubolio]

Thanks everyone in advance for your comments and help. I've learned a lot by reading the forum.

I'm trying to go off grid with generator backup, and have grid access for a secondary backup.

I would like to reserve space for future battery banks.

So far this is my battery to solar charge controller plan, please help me look this over and see if everything makes sense. I hope this is clear and not confusing, I tried to incorporate everything from torque specs to bolt size to make sure I have everything ready.

Some questions that I have are:

1. I see that t-class fuses are recommended for lithium batteries, should I put a t-class fuse immediately after the positive lug on each EG4 battery? or would one bigger t-class fuse for the entire 6 EG4 battery bank suffice? Is 300 amps per battery pack way too high? what amps size should I have if I were to put 1 t-class fuse per 6 EG4 battery bank?
2. The Lynx shunt has a built in CNN fuse slot, but this seems to be redundant if putting a t-class fuse after each battery or battery bank. Is this thought correct? if so I will just connect it with a copper bar.
3. I have purchased the Lynx power in to reserve space for future battery banks, when I do purchase another battery bank, does it have to be the same amp rating as the first bank of 6 EG4 batteries? or can it be say 4x 48v 100amp, 7x 48v 100amp, 3x 48v 200amp, etc?
4. When connecting the cables to the Lynx distributor is it advisable to:
   1. have each inverter staggered so that the distance to each inverter is the same? as in:
      1. Positive 1: Inverter 1
      2. Positive 2: Inverter 2
      3. Negative 1: Inverter 2
      4. Negative 2: Inverter 1
   2. Connect the solar charge controller in position 1 (closest to the shunt)? or inbetween the 2 inverters? or at the end furtherest from the shunt?

via what cable and bolt​	to what device/bus bar/fuse/etc​	bolt coming off from device/busbar​
n/a	EG4 Lifepower Batteries (have 6 in parallel)	M6 bolt (6nm)
via 4/0g (<12in) to M6 bolt (6nm) on	Fuse block w/ 150 amp t-class fuse	M8 bolt (8nm)
via 4/0g (<=6ft) cable to ? bolt (??nm) on	Server rack bus bar	M6/M8 bolt (??nm)
via 4/0g (<6in) cable or copper bus bar to	Battery bank cut off (in case of future additional banks)	m6/m8 bolt (??nm)
via 4/0g (~2ft) cable or copper bus bar to M8 nut (14nm) on	Lynx power in	M8 nut (14nm)
via 4/0g (<6in) cable or copper bus bar to	Main battery cut off	m6/m8 bolt (??nm)
via 4/0g (<6in) cable or copper bus bar to	Lynx shunt w/ 800 amp CNN fuse M8 nut (14nm)	M8 nut (14nm)
via built in bus bar to (no bolt)	Lynx distributor	n/a
Lynx Distributor Position 1​
via built in bus bar to	250 or 300 amp MEGA fuse (14nm)	M8 nut (14nm)
via 4/0g (~3ft) cable to M8 bolt (14nm) on	Victron quattro 48v/10,000va inverter	M6 bolts (7nm)
(AC OUT) via 2g or 4g cable to	100amp breaker on load Center
Lynx Distributor Position 2 (reapeated for 2nd inverter)​
via built in bus bar to	250 or 300 amp MEGA fuse (14nm)	M8 nut (14nm)
via 4/0g (~3ft) cable to M8 bolt (14nm) on	Victron quattro 48v/10,000va inverter	M6 bolts (7nm)
(AC OUT) via 2g or 4g cable to	100amp breaker on load Center
Lynx Distributor Position 3​
via built in bus bar to	250 or 300 amp MEGA fuse (14nm)	M8 nut (14nm)
via 4/0g (~3ft) cable to M8 bolt (14nm) on	Victron Smartsolar MPPT RS 450/200	need ferrules?
via 10g cable to	PV isolater breakers	to panels

spec sheets:
EG4 Lifepower4 Spec sheet: https://signaturesolar.com/content/documents/EG4/1511006-specs.pdf
EG4 Lifepower4 Manual: https://signaturesolar.com/content/documents/EG4/EG4 Lifepower4 -manual 1.0.1.pdf

Victron Quattro 48/10,000 Spec sheet: https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Datasheet-Quattro-3-10kVA-120V-EN-.pdf
Victron Quattro 48/10,000 Manual: https://www.victronenergy.com/uploa...ttro-5k-10k-120V-(firmware-xxxx4xx)-EN-ES.pdf

Victron Power In Spec sheet: n/a
Victron Power In Manual: https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Lynx_Power_In/Lynx_Power_In-en.pdf

Victron Lynx Shunt Spec sheet: https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Datasheet-Lynx-Shunt-VE.Can-EN.pdf
Victron Power In Manual: https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Lynx_Shunt_VE.Can/Lynx_Shunt_VE_Can_Manual-en.pdf

Victron Distributor Spec sheet: n/a
Victron Distributor Manual: https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Lynx_Distributor/Lynx_Distributor-en.pdf

Victron Smartsolar MPPT RS 450/200 Spec sheet: https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Datasheet-SmartSolar-MPPT-RS-EN-.pdf
Victron Smartsolar MPPT RS 450/200 Manual: https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/SmartSolar_MPPT_RS/SmartSolar_MPPT_RS-en.pdf

 

[Rocketman]

You have some good questions… I would ask them to your Victron dealer.

These are my guesses
1. I would put a class T after each battery, rated just for that battery. The EG4 says it has a 125 breaker. I would put in a 150a fuse.

2. Lynx shunt fuse. This should be sized for the wire after it or the entire system. It probably doesn’t matter, because everything after it (the distributor) has fuses on it).

3. I think as long as you are adding more EG4’s it won’t matter how many more.

4a. Keep it simple and SERVICEABLE. So I would keep the positive’s and negative’s together (not cross them).

4b. I remember someone saying to put the solar in position 4. That way during heavy use you have the power spread out on the bus bar (keeps it slightly cooler).

I am no expert. Good Luck!

Sounds like you will have a great system!

 

[scrubolio]

You have some good questions… I would ask them to your Victron dealer.

These are my guesses
1. I would put a class T after each battery, rated just for that battery. The EG4 says it has a 125 breaker. I would put in a 150a fuse.

2. Lynx shunt fuse. This should be sized for the wire after it or the entire system. It probably doesn’t matter, because everything after it (the distributor) has fuses on it).

3. I think as long as you are adding more EG4’s it won’t matter how many more.

4a. Keep it simple and SERVICEABLE. So I would keep the positive’s and negative’s together (not cross them).

4b. I remember someone saying to put the solar in position 4. That way during heavy use you have the power spread out on the bus bar (keeps it slightly cooler).

I am no expert. Good Luck!

Sounds like you will have a great system!

thanks for the responses.

1. I'm looking into the MRBF fuses just because they seem much simpler to mount (straight to the terminal post) and cheaper than t-class fuses. Yes, you're right on the 150a fuse.

2. ya, if everything before and after the shunt is fused, it seems redundant.

3. I'm kind of sad about my purchase on the EG4s at this point, without closed loop communication with Victron, to me it almost seems like I wasted my money and should go with an SOK or other battery that can properly communicate with the BMS. But my main question was if I add a new set of batteries in the future, they need to match in volts obviously, but could I just add another 1x 48v 100ah battery to the 2nd slot on the Power In?

4a. ya your probably right, keep it simple.

4b. hmm ok thanks.

 

[SignatureSolarJames]

thanks for the responses.

1. I'm looking into the MRBF fuses just because they seem much simpler to mount (straight to the terminal post) and cheaper than t-class fuses. Yes, you're right on the 150a fuse.

2. ya, if everything before and after the shunt is fused, it seems redundant.

3. I'm kind of sad about my purchase on the EG4s at this point, without closed loop communication with Victron, to me it almost seems like I wasted my money and should go with an SOK or other battery that can properly communicate with the BMS. But my main question was if I add a new set of batteries in the future, they need to match in volts obviously, but could I just add another 1x 48v 100ah battery to the 2nd slot on the Power In?

4a. ya your probably right, keep it simple.

4b. hmm ok thanks.

Closed loop is coming via a control panel for the bank

 

[sergea]

thanks for the responses.


3. I'm kind of sad about my purchase on the EG4s at this point, without closed loop communication with Victron, to me it almost seems like I wasted my money and should go with an SOK or other battery that can properly communicate with the BMS. But my main question was if I add a new set of batteries in the future, they need to match in volts obviously, but could I just add another 1x 48v 100ah battery to the 2nd slot on the Power In?

That's the problem, people doesn't read documentation and complains on YT ;-)

My best advice was and still is, never buy battery without polytech compatibility option if you need communication with inverter. Gx support pylon and victron/sma on canbus. I hope SG has pylon emulation for theirs battery;-).?

 

[caki]

You didn't mentioned, but one thing missing is monitoring. You should not underestimate how important is to collect data about the health of the system, like battery state of charge, solar production, power usable, fault alerts and do forth. The victron monitoring is really good but natively it will not talk to the EG4 battery. I've been working on that integration (eg4 to victron) and it is in testing right now

 

[scrubolio]

Yes the integration is key, which is why I'm either going to sell the EG4s or wait until they come out with their closed loop setup with Victron

 

[scrubolio]

That's the problem, people doesn't read documentation and complains on YT ;-)

My best advice was and still is, never buy battery without polytech compatibility option if you need communication with inverter. Gx support pylon and victron/sma on canbus. I hope SG has pylon emulation for theirs battery;-).?

I'm guilty of that, but try my best to read the spec sheets. however, sometimes I'm sloppy

sorry what's Gx and SG? GX as in Cerbo GX?

Thanks

 

[SignatureSolarJames]

Yes the integration is key, which is why I'm either going to sell the EG4s or wait until they come out with their closed loop setup with Victron

We have the victron team + Netherlands engineer in our shop next week

 

[sergea]

I'm guilty of that, but try my best to read the spec sheets. however, sometimes I'm sloppy

sorry what's Gx and SG? GX as in Cerbo GX?

Thanks

SG = solarsignature ;-)

cerbox GX = victron conroller base on baggleboard raspberry computer

 

[caki]

@Louisvdw just released version 0.13 of his add-on to Victron that now supports EG4 batteries. Attached are some screenshots. While not official it is working well.

 

[SignatureSolarJames]

@Louisvdw Just DM'd you
awesome work!

 

[Shane_UK]

Regarding your question 4, keeping the cables the same lengths, I was also thinking the same regarding my battery connections on the lynx distributor. I have 2 batteries to connect so I was thinking that the following connection method would keep my cables runs the same length (assuming I cut all cables to same length)

Positive 1 = Battery 1
Negative 1 = Battery 2
Positive 4 = Battery 1
Negative 4 = Battery 2

Or I could keep 1=1, 2=2, 3=3, 4=4 etc. on the distributor and compensate by make cables to position 1 about 10cm longer than cables to position 4. Cables to position 2 about 7.5cm longer than those to position 4, and cables to position 3 about 2.5cm longer than those to position 4.

Having potentially 20cm (8inch) greater round trip between 2 batteries connected to the same inverter seems to quite a lot, would this result in uneven loads on the batteries. I've not seen anything in the Victron manual regarding compensating cable lengths to compensate for the staggered positions of the terminal on the Lynx.

I'm on a learning curve so the above. is more of a question and not advice. I'd like to hear more experienced opinions please.