Please help me plan for pump install

[JaVid]

I had my well drilled yesterday. An earlier thread really helped me figure out my needs/etc and how many things I needed to figure out. My well is 475' deep and static water level is 375'. Well refresh rate is over 10gpm. I am going to install my pump myself and plan to set pump at 425'. Any thoughts or critism would be very appreciated. Proposed components:

- 250PSI SIDR 1" poly tubing - 4710 material and meets ASTMD2239 SIDR 7 - I found 500' roll, so no connections except at pump and pitless

- Grundfos 5 SQ-15-450 pump - 1 1/2 horse and soft start

- Extra long SS barb connectors with (3) T-bolt clamps at each connection

- Pitless adaptor

- 2 wire 12 awg well wire

- 3/16 SS wire safety cable - this may help with pulling and placing pump - I have lots of experience with wire rope and rigging

Questions:

- Should I add a check valve above the pump (pump comes with check valve already)?

- Does anyone ever connect the safety cable to the tubing with SS hose clamps (say every 25' or so) to help with stretching, etc? This would also eliminate risk of safety cable breaking and falling to the bottom and making it hard to get pump out. Not sure if the hose clamps would weaken the pipe if it were to stretch though and cut into drop pipe.

- Since my pump is soft start, I wasn't planning on using a torque arrestor near the bottom - thoughts?

I know the poly will stretch and I will leave some slack with wire (although will tape every 7 ish feet). I will use my tractor to help with install and will buy or build something to keep pipe from kinking against casing. I installed a pump at 200' feet on old ag well about 7 years ago and it has worked fine since, so I have some experience with this process.

Initially I plan to just pipe pitless to frost-free hydrant at first, but will add 40+ gallon 40-60 pressure tank at some point. If my pump can't supply enough water with pressure tank attached, I will pump to tank at surface and then pump from there.

I will have help on install and have figured out my total weight will be about 230lbs. I am confident I can handle that with rigging/tractor/extra helpers.

If I need to remove pipe/pump, my total weight will be around 375lbs and with tractor should be able to deal with that as well.

Thanks for any help!!!

 

[Ottox]

I can’t answer most of your questions but on my Grundfos well pump they ran 10awg down to only 120ft. I think you need a lot bigger wire for low voltage drop to 450ft-ish wire length at the rated 12.3a.

 

[MisterSandals]

I can’t answer most of your questions but on my Grundfos well pump they ran 10awg down to only 120ft. I think you need a lot bigger wire for low voltage drop to 450ft-ish wire length at the rated 12.3a.

Asking because i do not know: Why wouldn't you use 120V for the L1 and L2 wires? I'm scratching my head oner N.

 

[Ottox]

Asking because i do not know: Why wouldn't you use 120V for the L1 and L2 wires? I'm scratching my head oner N.

Ah there’s a complicated explanation that someone smarter than me can probably answer. I believe voltage is the difference in potential across your lines, since L1 and L2 are 180 degrees out of phase your voltage between them is 240v. There is no neutral to the 240v well pump, just L1 L2 and ground. @timselectric this might be something you can answer?

 

[JaVid]

I can’t answer most of your questions but on my Grundfos well pump they ran 10awg down to only 120ft. I think you need a lot bigger wire for low voltage drop to 450ft-ish wire length at the rated 12.3a.

View attachment 303900

Thanks for checking that. The Grundfos pump has AC input of 200-240V. If I use 12awg, I end up with 220V at the pump and the pump is soft start, so I think 12awg should be okay. Saying all that, I still may choose 10awg for my wire run. Still thinking it over - I appreciate your feedback!

 

[ChrisG]

Did a lot of research on this topic when I replaced my well with a Grundfos. First, follow electrical voltage drop guidelines as people recommended above even if you're using a grundfos soft start. Second, poly pipe is only recommended to 300ft. Per a website and corresponding YouTube channel I followed in the past: For wells deeper than 300-450 feet, schedule 80 and 120 PVC or galvanized steel piping are often preferred. Deeper than 450ft it's galvanized steel pipe only.

 

[JaVid]

Did a lot of research on this topic when I replaced my well with a Grundfos. First, follow electrical voltage drop guidelines as people recommended above even if you're using a grundfos soft start. Second, poly pipe is only recommended to 300ft. Per a website and corresponding YouTube channel I followed in the past: For wells deeper than 300-450 feet, schedule 80 and 120 PVC or galvanized steel piping are often preferred. Deeper than 450ft it's galvanized steel pipe only.

Thanks so much for the feedback. There are reports here and other places about the SQ pumps and how they do indeed soft start and ramp up with none of the surge that almost all other well pumps exhibit. If the pumps are rated 200-240 volts with no surge, I am not sure why I shouldn't be okay with 220V at the pump and a 9% voltage drop? Can you explain why?

I am also weight conscious - 10AWG a lot heavier than 12AWG...

I know I am sorta on the edge for poly. I figured my total head at 520' including the pressure tank at 60psi. When I multiply 520*.43 I get 225PSI, which I hope my 250PSI pipe would be able to handle with the soft start. I was thinking if poly pipe was rated to 250psi@70 degrees, it would work out for me at 50 degrees, even if on the edge of its use case. I was also thinking there would be a safety margin built into the PSI rating, but maybe I am wrong. I will use a safety cable and if the pipe bursts, I will have to go with PVC. I will use extra long stainless fitting and do a good job of taping and clamping.

I can do the well myself with poly and would have to hire out if I use PVC or Galvanized. I am saving about $3K doing it myself and that is somewhat of my motivation to go with poly. I can also pull it myself if I have issues. I have work experience working with rigging/machinery/etc. 7 years ago I put a pump in at 200' with poly and haven't had any issues, so I have some experience with this, but certainly the weight and length of pipe is going to be a much bigger deal.

 

[outboard1196]

Thanks so much for the feedback. There are reports here and other places about the SQ pumps and how they do indeed soft start and ramp up with none of the surge that almost all other well pumps exhibit. If the pumps are rated 200-240 volts with no surge, I am not sure why I shouldn't be okay with 220V at the pump and a 9% voltage drop? Can you explain why?

I am also weight conscious - 10AWG a lot heavier than 12AWG...

I know I am sorta on the edge for poly. I figured my total head at 520' including the pressure tank at 60psi. When I multiply 520*.43 I get 225PSI, which I hope my 250PSI pipe would be able to handle with the soft start. I was thinking if poly pipe was rated to 250psi@70 degrees, it would work out for me at 50 degrees, even if on the edge of its use case. I was also thinking there would be a safety margin built into the PSI rating, but maybe I am wrong. I will use a safety cable and if the pipe bursts, I will have to go with PVC. I will use extra long stainless fitting and do a good job of taping and clamping.

I can do the well myself with poly and would have to hire out if I use PVC or Galvanized. I am saving about $3K doing it myself and that is somewhat of my motivation to go with poly. I can also pull it myself if I have issues. I have work experience working with rigging/machinery/etc. 7 years ago I put a pump in at 200' with poly and haven't had any issues, so I have some experience with this, but certainly the weight and length of pipe is going to be a much bigger deal.

I converter my well to a Submersible pump 2 years ago using a grundfos pump, they are nice.
I used rope atached to the pump incase I needed it. But I have changed my view on this, I personally wouldn't use anything, just poly pipe and power wire. Watching videos about getting a stuck pump out, you want the least amount of stuff in the well as possible. Cutting the pump free and letting it sink to the bottom is cheaper then drilling a new well. I plan to pull everything out and remove the rope.
Watch h20mechanic on YouTube he has a few videos. He may have a video on wells as deep as yours, see what was used for drop pipe.

 

[JaVid]

I converter my well to a Submersible pump 2 years ago using a grundfos pump, they are nice.
I used rope atached to the pump incase I needed it. But I have changed my view on this, I personally wouldn't use anything, just poly pipe and power wire. Watching videos about getting a stuck pump out, you want the least amount of stuff in the well as possible. Cutting the pump free and letting it sink to the bottom is cheaper then drilling a new well. I plan to pull everything out and remove the rope.
Watch h20mechanic on YouTube he has a few videos. He may have a video on wells as deep as yours, see what was used for drop pipe.

Yeah - I go back and forth with using a "safety cable". I know the argument to not add extra things and I agree with it overall. I am not going to lose the safety cable in the well and jam it up. There is the possibility that a rock falls and jams up the pump against the casing and then the safety cable becomes a bad thing that holds everything in the well. I don't think this happens often and is probably very location/geology dependent. It is a risk though. I have watched a bunch of h2O mechanic videos - good stuff!

On a side note, I have decided to go with 10 awg wire...

 

[Mountainwolf]

My well is 320 feet, I ran 10awg wire and a 3/16th stainless cable. I taped it all every 10 feet or so. 1 1/4 poly pipe, two guys put in last fall with a roller thing that attached to the 8" metal casing. Hardest part was getting the damned pitless adapter to go into the shoe. Runs just fine off a Predator 9500 inverter genny, draws about 11 amps at start. It was a Grundfos just cant remember the model number.

 

[NC_hydro]

That depth is just fine for Poly. I would definitely upsize from 12 AWG, 9% drop is a lot.