Portable 2 Wire AutoStart Generator Options

[HRTKD]

Cool. Do they have a website?

I think this is it:

Auto Power Self-Starting Generator Models - Available Models

Auto Power Self-Starting Generator Models. Automatic start/stop remote well site generator. Great for home use also!

dietschmanufacturing.com

 

[DPC]

Anything with an EL-8 controller from Kohler is simple dead reliable and easily se3rviced by the owner...

I just fired up a 1960s unit in advance of a power outage tomorrow.
It sits and waits and as long as the battery is charged it always starts.

This is an L600 man they were nice.
If you were here in the nickel city I could set you up with one for 500 bucks.
But its not what I was actually looking to post here.

No this is what I am looking for...

The prestolite 4004 is no longer available but you can swap pout a modern regulator for it.
The Sisson choke is getting harder to find.
EP type cranks are very hard to find. ( can be made from a standard crank involves machining a taper )
But every other part can be sources and replaced

Make to Run close a swithc on terminal 3 and 4.
The rest is automatic and all the safeties on these old sets are built in.
They are everywhere...
You just have to look......

 

[DPC]

This is made from good parts.
The engine is a big block Honda with auto choke and gas mixer...
The generator head is a Mecc-Alte and its pretty good...

But a lot of it looks like its home made.
Buyer beware.
If you want two wire start and your can wire things just modify a Dewalt generator or other commercial rental grade unit.( made of the same parts as this )

 

[jimf909]

^^^ It sounds like they filled a void in the market back in 1998 and are still producing some units for ag use. Maybe it's a genuine honest small business. Glad it was posted here.

 

[mondurr]

With the looming tariff uncertainty I went ahead and purchased the Genmax GM10500XiT. I got the last one on Amazon, not sure if they'll get anymore in considering the tariff situation. They replaced the Amazon listing shortly after with a comparable but larger unit that's another $400. If anyone wants me to test anything specific just let me know.

Actually looks like they're still available from Generator Superstore and cheaper than Amazon AND no sales tax. Looks like I overpaid by $200 ugh.

 

[ALTA780]

The standby gen manufacturers would be wise to come on this and other solar forums to understand some of the frustrations with solar standby.

I've been looking for a 10kw or under in a standby, with a cold weather kit, a remote and at the unit start to use while in construction phase, then to move on to back up start to charge batteries and power for the cabin during those cloud covered days, once I have solar installed.

I haven't found anything, that won't require serious modification.

 

[jscrews]

Anyone know where to buy the Westinghouse Smart communication wire without buying the whole ST switch? Or is this 7 pole wire some standard connector type? I'm looking at the Westinghouse generators and trying to setup autostart with my Outback Mate3. I can't find the wire anywhere sold separate from the switch.

 

[mondurr]

Anyone know where to buy the Westinghouse Smart communication wire without buying the whole ST switch? Or is this 7 pole wire some standard connector type? I'm looking at the Westinghouse generators and trying to setup autostart with my Outback Mate3. I can't find the wire anywhere sold separate from the switch.

My understanding with the ATS ports of this type is that 2-wire start isn't feasible without the use of an additional middle man device. You start the generator by shorting the start pin to ground, but disconnecting them doesn't stop the generator. You need to release the start pin, then short it again to stop the generator (the start pin is just connected to the push button start). There's also a pin for the generator's emergency stop, as well as a pin you can use to detect voltage that indicates that the generator is running.

The connector is called a GX20-7 aviation connector.

This is the most informative thread I can find on the subject

I'm trying to figure this out myself as I bought one of the Genmax generators with the 2-wire start and it was damaged in shipping, they don't have any more to send me, so they're offering me a different generator with that same 7-pin connector.

This is the pin out for the Genmax, I would assume the Westinghouse generators are the same.

 

[jscrews]

Thanks mondurr for the cable info. I'm not sure if an intermediate device is needed, but I was hoping the Outback Mate3 will handle that. In the docs for Outback it just states that a relay is needed.

I thought I read somewhere else (can't find it) that when the contact is closed for 1 second, the gen tries to start up to 4 times. Then when the contact is closed again, the gen stops. I have no idea if that is correct. Guess I'll find out when all my orders come in.

 

[jscrews]

Thread 'Howto: automatically start backup generator to recharge solar battery.'

Jun 1, 2020

I live off-grid. I wanted to have a gas/propane generator backup for my battery/solar bank for when there is bad weather or I have some other problems with my electrical supply. It needed to be a powerful generator that I could use to quickly recharge my LifePO4 bank in under a few hours and then shutdown. Also I wanted this to work automatically without manually starting the generator.

Here is my solution if your interested in something similar.

Westinghouse WGen7500DF Dual Fuel Portable Generator 7500 Rated & 9500 Peak Watts, Gas or Propane Powered, Electric Start, Transfer Switch...

• BarkingSpider
• Replies: 7
• Forum: Fuel Back-up Generators

• 

This thread says the the start just takes a quick contact, but the stop takes a few seconds. Not sure it the Mate3 has that flexibility. I think it will just send the signal.

 

[jimf909]

The cabling:
As mentioned, you can build the cable and connectors using a GX20-7 (GX connector, 20 mm in diameter with 7 pins) like this and a 8 strand hookup wire like this. Or you can buy one pre-built like this.

The Outback signal:

This thread says the the start just takes a quick contact, but the stop takes a few seconds. Not sure it the Mate3 has that flexibility. I think it will just send the signal.

Correct. The Mate will only send a 12v on/off signal. That's not enough to start or stop the generator.

Hardware:

Thanks mondurr for the cable info. I'm not sure if an intermediate device is needed, but I was hoping the Outback Mate3 will handle that. In the docs for Outback it just states that a relay is needed.

What model Westinghouse generator do you want to auto-start? I'm 99.9% certain that it's NOT a 2-wire start unit and therefore requires the AGS module listed under 3-wire (or more) start generators. 2-wire start generators have the AGS module built into them. I haven't seen a 2-wire start Westinghouse but I'm leaving a .1% chance for my not being aware of one.

Under HARDWARE the information you posted Outback lists both the relay and a GSCM (Generator Start Control Module) made by Atkinson Electronics. These modules are more generically called AGS (Auto Generator Start) and made by a number of companies in addition to Atkinson, i.e. while Outback suggests Atkinson AGS modules from DSE, Magnum, etc. can be used.

There's an example of how an AGS works at the end of the first post in this thread. Replace "Cerbo" with "Outback Mate 3" to get a rough idea of what you want to do.

I've used a Westinghouse generator with an Atkinson GSCM and have also used Outback products to interface with a DSE AGS to auto-start a diesel generator so I have some experience with both ends of what you're working with.

 

[jscrews]

Under HARDWARE the information you posted Outback lists both the relay and a GSCM (Generator Start Control Module) made by Atkinson Electronics. These modules are more generically called AGS (Auto Generator Start) and made by a number of companies in addition to Atkinson, i.e. while Outback suggests Atkinson AGS modules from DSE, Magnum, etc. can be used.

Thanks for your reply jimf909. I may order the premade cable.

The Mate3 manual is listing what is needed for 2 wire and 3 wire start generators. If I'm reading it correctly the GSCM is needed for a 3 wire generator but not 2 wire. In your experience is the GSCM needed for a 2 wire start?

 

[AdamsSolarProject]

Some new products I'm seeing could be off the shelf options, the ATS feature on some dual fuel generators from Westinghouse seems like they could be wired up to start the generator only if in an off grid setup. Genmax (not the best rep), has a two wire start option on a inverter generator that has a claimed THD <3%.

Westinghouse Configs:
Westinghouse ATS - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B082BWF6C...6b34731aad181&language=en_US&ref_=as_li_ss_tl
- with -
Westinghouse Inverter Gen with ATS Port - https://www.amazon.com/Westinghouse...ator-Electric/dp/B0CQMZZ47V/ref=sr_1_1?sr=8-1

OR

Westinghouse ATS - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B082BWF6C...6b34731aad181&language=en_US&ref_=as_li_ss_tl
- with-
Westinghouse Dirty Gen with ATS Port - https://www.amazon.com/Westinghouse...LKBG/ref=pd_bxgy_d_sccl_1/146-1010283-0408542

Genmax Config:
Genmax Inverter Gen with Auto-Start Port - https://www.amazon.com/GENMAX-Gener...on-GM10500XiT/dp/B0DNT3Q8NT/ref=sr_1_4?sr=8-4

Curious on what folks think of these potential options, especially if there's anyone that's tried them.

Westinghouse tri-fuel for $200 more than dual. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0C4C4FR1...p_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9kZXRhaWxfdGhlbWF0aWM

 

[jimf909]

Thanks for your reply jimf909. I may order the premade cable.

The Mate3 manual is listing what is needed for 2 wire and 3 wire start generators. If im reading it correctly the GSCM is needed for a 3 wire generator but not 2 wire.

Correct. I just edited my post to clarify that I believe you have a 3 (or more) wire start generator. "2-wire" start sounds simple but it's a term used to describe a generator with a AGS module built-in which is not common in the US, esp. in portable generators. What model Westinghouse do you have? They may have added features that I'm not aware of.

 

[jscrews]

Correct. I just edited my post to clarify that I believe you have a 3 (or more) wire start generator. "2-wire" start sounds simple but it's a term used to describe a generator with a AGS module built-in which is not common in the US, esp. in portable generators. What model Westinghouse do you have? They may have added features that I'm not aware of.

This is the generator I've ordered. My off grid setup is not very large as I'm not there full time, so I was looking for a smaller generator that sips propane during the winter. I just need it to auto start on cloudy days in winter.

Westinghouse | WGen5300DF Generator

At 6,500 peak watts and 5,300 running watts, the WGen5300DFv runs for up to 20 hours at a time. Featuring a powerful 274cc 4-Stroke OHV Westinghouse Engine made with a cast iron sleeve for durability and an RV Ready TT-30R Outlet. Get yours today!

westinghouse.com

In this thread, the guy is suggesting touching the pins individually until the start pin is located. That is why I assumed it only takes a + and - wire to start this westinghouse generator. Would love to know if I need the GSCM though. I live 850 miles away from my cabin and am going there in about a week, so purchases are much easier at home.

 

[jimf909]

^^^ Neato. That's a clever DIY solution. I believe the Outback will provide a simple 12v signal when it wants to start the generator and 0v to shut off the generator. The AGS/GSCM converts that to information the generator can us such as a briefly pushing the start button to start and stop the generator. These functions can be DIYd with timed relays or devices similar to what's posted in the thread you shared.

A minor complicating factor with the Westinghouse is that it also has an on/off rocker switch (not the start button). If this is left in the on position the battery will drain. I solved this by running a trickle charger to the generator's start batter. The GSCM has functionality that will first connect the ON circuit and then "press" the start button.

Another issue solved by the GSCM is that it monitors the generator for AC output and if the generator doesn't start it will try multiple times to start it. Similar to pressing the start button, having the generator go through its sequence of start attempts, and then pushing the start button again.

Will you want the generator to start when you're off-site? Does your cabin have internet access where you can monitor the systems remotely? I'm off-grid too and hoped for simple solutions but found things can get more complicated.

The first five pages of the Atkinson manual provide some insights on the benefits of the GSCM:

https://atkinsonelectronics.com/content/product_pdfs/GSCM-Wifi.pdf

 

[mondurr]

Genmax has some new enclosed units coming out that also have the 2-wire start. They seem to be delayed by the tariff situation, however. There's an EFI 8000W model that has the 2-wire, and a carb 9000W model with both the 2-wire start and the ATS port, then there are some much larger units as well. I had ordered the open frame 10500W model, but it was damaged in shipping and I was given a refund. Not sure if I'm going to go ahead and order another 10500 or wait for these new units.

 

[mondurr]

Does anyone know of a simple 12V wireless relay kit could I use? What I'd like to do is put the transmitter on my 12000xp dry contacts and the receiver on the generator's 2-wire dry contacts. When the 12000xp closes then the receiver end on the generator should close. Seems like a simple thing but on Amazon all I see are receiver boards that come with a transmitter remote/keyfob and I'm looking for something I don't have to modify to work.