Possible increase of heart attack risk after mRNA vaccine.

Johnson

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It seems like a fair compromise but we've all seen the deniers who have repented on their sick bed. It also doesn't account for the people they spread it to or the variant proliferation.
This is part of what it means to be treated like an adult. And yes, they are more likely to spread it to others, but we can overcome that with the booster shots.
 

noenegdod

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Nobody starts the evening date wanting an abortion. Nobody mingles with friends expects to be on a ventilator either.
As Chris Rock said: "Put the dick down!"

Arguments like this are dumb.

No one gets in a car wanting a crash. Nobody walks down a dark alley in a low cut dress drunk at 3am wanting to get raped. Nobody walks across a tight rope wanting to fall to their death. Nobody sky dives expecting to smash into the ground. Nobody drives their motorbike at 200 mph wanting to be road kill. Nobody robs a bank wanting to go to jail.

Nobody wants or expects the negative outcome but if your not willing to live with the worst then dont do it.
 

Johnson

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As Chris Rock said: "Put the dick down!"

Arguments like this are dumb.

No one gets in a car wanting a crash. Nobody walks down a dark alley in a low cut dress drunk at 3am wanting to get raped. Nobody walks across a tight rope wanting to fall to their death. Nobody sky dives expecting to smash into the ground. Nobody drives their motorbike at 200 mph wanting to be road kill. Nobody robs a bank wanting to go to jail.

Nobody wants or expects the negative outcome but if your not willing to live with the worst then dont do it.
We design cars to make crashes more survivable, it does not give others the right to plow into a Christmas parade. People walk across tight ropes for a sense of thrill and while they do they could use a safety line, it is their right to fall to their death if they chose not to take the precautionary measures. Same for sky divers, they have a second parachute. The reason you are not allowed to drive a motorbike at 200 miles an hour is because you are likely to injure others, not just because you are likely to kill yourself.

And women should be able to walk in a dark alley in a low cut dress, or completely naked for all I care and expect not to get raped, blaming the victim for the dress is dumb.

Get vaccinated, if you do not want the vaccine, please don't become a burden on the hospital system, it is bad enough we might loose your expertise and your family a son/daughter/parent...
 
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Johnson

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Let's start with the politicians, they seem like the biggest danger to the community.
Some politicians truly believe they are can make a positive difference for society, we might not agree on what is "best" but doing away with politicians seems to be a bad idea. A better solution would be to take the money out of politics and have proportional representation. Instead of advertisements, have each party draw up a set of things they would like to implement, have that priced by an independent authority and published side by side.

But getting back to the increased risk of heart attacks. There is not enough evidence for that, what we do know is that we are more then 10 times more likely to die (2%) after getting covid compared to those who take the vaccine and that the immunity wanes over time. I will be getting the booster shot as soon as I can as the benefits far outweigh any negative side effects. If their is evidence that shows that the mortality rate from the vaccine is over 1.8%, I will certainly change my mind.
 

noenegdod

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We design cars to make crashes more survivable, it does not give others the right to plow into a Christmas parade. People walk across tight ropes for a sense of thrill and while they do they could use a safety line, it is their right to fall to their death if they chose not to take the precautionary measures. Same for sky divers, they have a second parachute. The reason you are not allowed to drive a motorbike at 200 miles an hour is because you are likely to injure others, not just because you are likely to kill yourself.

And women should be able to walk in a dark alley in a low cut dress, or completely naked for all I care and expect not to get raped, blaming the victim for the dress is dumb.

Get vaccinated, if you do not want the vaccine, please don't become a burden on the hospital system, it is bad enough we might loose your expertise and your family a son/daughter/parent

Yes, they should be able to walk around naked, but they cant.

Of course people have figured out how to mitigate the down sides of activities but they are still there and if you are not willing to accept them if they occur then you should not participate, dont whine if you suffer them.

If you drive a car and get in an at fault accident, should you be on your own? No hospital for you? If you go mountain climbing and get injured, no rescue?
 

Johnson

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Yes, they should be able to walk around naked, but they cant.
The reason they can't is not their fault but we have (unfairly) made it their problem.

Of course people have figured out how to mitigate the down sides of activities but they are still there and if you are not willing to accept them if they occur then you should not participate, dont whine if you suffer them.
Just don't walk a tightrope where a potential fall can hurt others. If you fall down a mountain and you can't be rescued safely, they will simply recover your body at a later stage.

If you drive a car and get in an at fault accident, should you be on your own? No hospital for you? If you go mountain climbing and get injured, no rescue?
Of course not, people make mistakes all the time, but with covid vaccine it is not like you lose your concentration or don't have enough time to think about your (in)action. If you are reckless driving you could even end up in prison, I don't propose we send people who refuse to get vaccinated (and infect others) to prison.

I ask you to take the vaccine to reduce the risk of you overburdening the healthcare system, the same reason we had/have lockdowns. If you refuse the vaccine, should others have their medical procedures put on hold? Should others have to suffer a lockdown, or will you accept the consequences of your choice and go home? If you wondering why I am so harsh, some one close to me is recovering from a bad concussion, there were no beds available in ICU due to all the extra unvaccinated covid patients, so he was left in the hallway by the nursing station for 3 days before he was assigned a bed in ICU.

How do you propose we resolve this? Increase the number of hospitals hospital staff and ICU beds?
 

Hedges

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How long does a vaccinated person remain infectious but asymptomatic?
How long does an unvaccinated person remain infectious but asymptomatic?

If we introduce mandatory testing, but only for the unvaccinated,

Is a vaccinated but asymptomatic person infectious longer, or shorter, than an unvaccinated asymptomatic person who hasn't had a positive test result returned yet?

Could it be that the mandatory testing policy is just carrot and stick, and actually leaves the vaccinated people a greater risk to others?
 

noenegdod

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The reason they can't is not their fault but we have (unfairly) made it their problem.
This right there is the problem with your thinking and the victim mentality you prescribe to.

No, it is not their fault but it is their problem. In exactly the same way your and my upbringing is not our faults, it is our problem and we have to figure out how to work with and around our parents deficient parenting skills and the results. The same way our genetics are not our faults but it is our problem.

People with the attitude that their problems are someone else responsibility are the problem.
 

Johnson

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How long does a vaccinated person remain infectious but asymptomatic?
How long does an unvaccinated person remain infectious but asymptomatic?

If we introduce mandatory testing, but only for the unvaccinated,

Is a vaccinated but asymptomatic person infectious longer, or shorter, than an unvaccinated asymptomatic person who hasn't had a positive test result returned yet?

Could it be that the mandatory testing policy is just carrot and stick, and actually leaves the vaccinated people a greater risk to others?
All I know is that we are less likely to spread the virus if we are vaccinated and we are less likely to burden the healthcare system.

But to me it seems that testing unvaccinated people is more like a form of petty punishment, like closing the borders for people traveling from the "wrong" countries is in my view petty punishment against a group of people. I do think that the vaccine needs be made mandatory, especially for the medical profession and military. Also have vaccines madated as one of the condition of international travel.

Even though we are all vaccinated, we are not going out for dinner, movies etc because the risks are too high. One of my main concerns is that if I do get covid is I could infect others. My elderly neighbour, a truely lovely lady, is unvaccinated. But it is not all bad, the good news is that we are working from home and the employers are fine with that.
 

BMcL

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Dont fall for the bait, this guy is a gish galloper, he will ignore all of your points and twist one word or phrase and go off on a made up point pretending you said it.
I can understand anyone who is agnostic and claims they don't know if God exists.
But to look at the complexity of everything, our bodies as the prime example, tells me if you aren't aware some higher power was involved, you are just not very bright or in denial.
 

BMcL

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IMHO: Omicron variant may make Covid-19 Vaccine unnecessary. It's mild and fast spreading. Might initiate a natural immune response. Might contribute to herd immunity.
After all, milk maids who had Cow Pox nursed Small Pox patients and did not contract it.
Agree. It seems likely it is a mild form of covid despite the fear-mongering press.
 

BMcL

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Get vaccinated, if you do not want the vaccine, please don't become a burden on the hospital system, it is bad enough we might loose your expertise and your family a son/daughter/parent...
There are plenty of early treatments that keep you out of the hospital. Are you for forced vaccinnations ?
 

Johnson

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This right there is the problem with your thinking and the victim mentality you prescribe to.
Nonsense, want to tell me what my thinking is mr Freud?

No, it is not their fault but it is their problem. In exactly the same way your and my upbringing is not our faults, it is our problem and we have to figure out how to work with and around our parents deficient parenting skills and the results. The same way our genetics are not our faults but it is our problem.
Are you trying to say that it is my problem that you (or anyone) refuse the vaccine?

People with the attitude that their problems are someone else responsibility are the problem.
We live in a society where your problems can become my problems and visa versa. I accept that we have a moral duty to helping others when you are in trouble, but when you refuse the help (the vaccine) should others have to put up with the consequences of your refusal?
 

BMcL

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If any one want to refuse the free vaccine, against the advise of experts, then be consistent and refuse hospitalization for the virus. Go home self isolate for 2 weeks, take loads of vitamin C, a horse dewormer, shine uv light up your intestines, drink bleach, pray to your god(s)
Johnson, you are an old fart like me so why are you telling these young people to get vaccinated ? For what purpose ?
You guys pretend you are focused on science, yet it's way too early to put faith in these vaccines ? How is that scientific ?
Let's use an experimental vaccine and then put multiple booster shots on top of that, and what can go wrong ?
 

noenegdod

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We live in a society where your problems can become my problems and visa versa. I accept that we have a moral duty to helping others when you are in trouble, but when you refuse the help (the vaccine) should others have to put up with the consequences of your refusal?
The rest of what you said is stupid and not worth addressing. This however is the whole point ^^^ I dont want your "help" any more than you would want my "help" forcing you to live a better life style and being healthier so you did not need your style of "help"
 

Shale MacGregor

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I can understand anyone who is agnostic and claims they don't know if God exists.
But to look at the complexity of everything, our bodies as the prime example, tells me if you aren't aware some higher power was involved, you are just not very bright or in denial.
I love circular reasoning. We are so complex that a higher power must have been involved.... but that higher power .... just always existed? .... created by higher higher power? Turtles all the way down?
 

Cdkipp

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This is part of what it means to be treated like an adult. And yes, they are more likely to spread it to others, but we can overcome that with the booster shots.
Right they so strenuously insist on their individual rights but then go running to a community hospital system when their stupidity reaps what is sowed. And they just don't pop into the hospital and die, they can linger for months in the ICU which again kills people that have done nothing wrong.
 

MurphyGuy

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I love circular reasoning. We are so complex that a higher power must have been involved.... but that higher power .... just always existed? .... created by higher higher power? Turtles all the way down?
You're not expecting a rational reply are you?
 

noenegdod

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Right they so strenuously insist on their individual rights but then go running to a community hospital system when their stupidity reaps what is sowed. And they just don't pop into the hospital and die, they can linger for months in the ICU which again kills people that have done nothing wrong.
But yet we have not problem providing health care for drug addicts, alcoholics, prostitutes, speeders, dangerous drivers, abortions (put the dick down!) etc
 
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