Possible increase of heart attack risk after mRNA vaccine.

[Johnson]

This was the pfizer document, thanks for the source OG document. But those are the numbers that pfizer has that indicate 601 / 43000 had BC1 / BC2 higher level anaphylaxis compared to the earlier quoted 2-5 out of a million for other vaccines. Perhaps it's why some of the people here are hesitant

The most common valid reason for people to be hesitant is that they have to take an action that might have negative consequences, even if the risk of taking action is infinitive small compared to not taking action. This is as illogical as a fear of heights, but that fear can be overpowering. It took me a lot of effort to climb even a lookout tower on a recent hike.

When I got my first set of batteries from Alibaba, I spend over a week top ballancing them, fearing that I would damage them if I didn't. After gaining some experience and reading other people's experiences here, I just put the batteries in parallel overnight before hooking them up to my solar panels and let the BMS do the balancing. Without the encouragement of Will's video's and many others here, I would never have taken those first steps.

All the evidence point to the vaccines being safe, just like the lookout tower is safe. Arguing that the tower, which is inspected by engineers on a yearly basis, might fall over is not a rational argument. I can assure you that the sense of fear is very real, but you don't see me arguing against climbing lookout towers, that would help no one.

 

[Johnson]

That wasnt the reason they gave. They said you didnt need them.

The condescending statement at the end is part of why you are ineffective.

Did you watch the Canadian video? Because that is exactly what she said.

 

[noenegdod]

Did you watch the Canadian video? Because that is exactly what she said.

You mean the one I posted? Yes that is what she said. That is not what Fauci said.

 

[Cdkipp]

The reason we did not wear masks early is very simple. Bad decisions made by Trump.
Why wear a mask for a hoax that will not even get to the US?

Can't imagine how people trusted the former guy and now blast Joe for doing the right thing.

That wasnt the reason they gave. They said you didnt need them.

The condescending statement at the end is part of why you are ineffective.

I don't think we are addressing the mask issue differently I just think you see that particular issue and reject all science and recommendations thereafter. First, science and governmental recommendations are not the same thing. Epidemiologists are much more conservative in their recommendations than the government as the government needs to weigh practicability and the politics. Despite you thinking the decision was purely motivated about protecting masks for health care workers (which they could do anyway, and did, by banning the retail sale of N95s) there was also the distinct belief that Covid was spread primarily by contact surface (eyes and mouth--handwashing) and large droplets (within 6 feet that could be blocked by cotton masks) where a sophisticated mask would be of little benefit outside the hospital situation. But, they were wrong. Nevertheless, this is what they, and many other primarily western countries, believed, and honestly, the US is still too reluctant to address the true airborne nature of Covid. As with all conspiracy theories, there is an element of truth in what you say but you are drawing unfounded conclusions. There has been a long-term disposition of westerners mocking the Asians for always wearing masks and that bias continued. But the Asians had actual experience with Sars and they were right.

 

[noenegdod]

I don't think we are addressing the mask issue differently I just think you see that particular issue and reject all science and recommendations thereafter. First, science and governmental recommendations are not the same thing. Epidemiologists are much more conservative in their recommendations than the government as the government needs to weigh practicability and the politics. Despite you thinking the decision was purely motivated about protecting masks for health care workers (which they could do anyway, and did, by banning the retail sale of N95s) there was also the distinct belief that Covid was spread primarily by contact surface (eyes and mouth--handwashing) and large droplets (within 6 feet that could be blocked by cotton masks) where a sophisticated mask would be of little benefit outside the hospital situation. But, they were wrong. Nevertheless, this is what they, and many other primarily western countries, believed, and honestly, the US is still too reluctant to address the true airborne nature of Covid. As with all conspiracy theories, there is an element of truth in what you say but you are drawing unfounded conclusions. There has been a long-term disposition of westerners mocking the Asians for always wearing masks and that bias continued. But the Asians had actual experience with Sars and they were right.

You are trying your hardest to put words in my mouth that I never said and make me a conspiracy theorist so you can dismiss me which demonstrates who insincere you are in this discussion.

I said that there is a reason the public does not trust the establishment. Instead of saying "we need to protect the supply for healthcare workers" he said this:

Lets see how hard this gets ignored

 

[Shale MacGregor]

There are things that government has said that were false. For example when we were told in the beginning that masks didnt do anything and then it came out that they simply didnt want the supply being used and nothing being left for health care.

I do believe some of the stuff that government says. I also question some of it. I could very well be one of the ones that is getting tea bagged on the stuff I believe.

This is why personal choice is so important. You should be able to disagree with me and choose your own path without me trying to force my own beliefs on you.

I agree I was extremely irate when fauci said that early on. I get that he was trying to preserve ppe but it completely undermines the legitimacy of his messaging going forward.

 

[Shale MacGregor]

Horses mouth:

Missteps? They outright lied to the public to protect the supply.

And my Canadian government parroting the same BS

Agree, was absolute bullshit and inexcusable.

 

[Johnson]

You mean the one I posted? Yes that is what she said. That is not what Fauci said.

And my Canadian government parroting the same BS

Talk about horses mouth....

 

[Shale MacGregor]

You are trying your hardest to put words in my mouth that I never said and make me a conspiracy theorist so you can dismiss me which demonstrates who insincere you are in this discussion.

I said that there is a reason the public does not trust the establishment. Instead of saying "we need to protect the supply for healthcare workers" he said this:

Lets see how hard this gets ignored

100% agree. If I haven't made it clear, this was absolute bullshit. If it wasn't effective they wouldn't have been trying to preserve ppe, if it was effective they should have told the truth and appealed to people. Unfortunately what he did might have saved more lives but it undermined the legitimacy of the messenger and was inexcusable in my opinion.

 

[Cdkipp]

You are trying your hardest to put words in my mouth that I never said and make me a conspiracy theorist so you can dismiss me which demonstrates who insincere you are in this discussion.

I said that there is a reason the public does not trust the establishment. Instead of saying "we need to protect the supply for healthcare workers" he said this:

Lets see how hard this gets ignored

I agree to an extent. As I said above I disregarded Fauci and wore a mask from the beginning. It was a mistake and the science did catch up but obviously, any breach of trust comes at a high cost. But, it is also an ongoing real phenomenon in western medicine that we do not deal with airborne disease properly so it is not as unexpected as up might think. Here is some recent research on the issue. https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M21-2780

 

[noenegdod]

I agree to an extent. As I said above I disregarded Fauci and wore a mask from the beginning. It was a mistake and the science did catch up but obviously, any breach of trust comes at a high cost. But, it is also an ongoing real phenomenon in western medicine that we do not deal with airborne disease properly so it is not as unexpected as up might think. Here is some recent research on the issue. https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M21-2780

I honestly dont care what you did or what recent research you have. The fact remains that Fauci and many others violated the trust of the public on this issue and others and as a result there are many people that have lost faith in the "system". Now you are in here bashing them because they are not as "smart" as you.

 

[Cdkipp]

I honestly dont care what you did or what recent research you have. The fact remains that Fauci and many others violated the trust of the public on this issue and others and as a result there are many people that have lost faith in the "system". Now you are in here bashing them because they are not as "smart" as you.

Assuming Fauci lied for the reason stated, I am saying it is unreasonable to assume that the scientific consensus since that date is wrong. In fact, that is the opposite of logical. The vaccine recommendation is coming from virtually every government and major medical association in the world. Are you suggesting they are controlled by Fauci? What follows from your assertion that Fauci lied? That Covid doesn't exist? That we should take ivermectin. Whether a mistake or a lie, what Fauci, says does not change the underlying science. In fact, you rely upon that very science to assert Fauci was wrong. Sanction the individual, not all of science.

 

[brb58]

As far as I am concerned..... If you have any life style related issues you can stay at home and die in your bed. Great logic eh?

You are right, you have poor logic.

 

[noenegdod]

Assuming Fauci lied for the reason stated, I am saying it is unreasonable to assume that the scientific consensus since that date is wrong. In fact, that is the opposite of logical. The vaccine recommendation is coming from virtually every government and major medical association in the world. Are you suggesting they are controlled by Fauci? What follows from your assertion that Fauci lied? That Covid doesn't exist? That we should take ivermectin. Whether a mistake or a lie, what Fauci, says does not change the underlying science. In fact, you rely upon that very science to assert Fauci was wrong. Sanction the individual, not all of science.

You again appear desperate to make this about me and then throw out a strawman in a rather pathetic attempt to show how smart you are and how stupid I am.

I am not saying I agree or disagree with you or anyone else. What I am saying is simply that a not insignificant portion of the population has lost faith in the "system" because their trust was violated. If a woman chose not to trust men because of an assault, would you call her stupid? Trust was violated, in both cases, and it would appear that because of what appears to be a superiority complex, in at least the first case, you are unable to bring yourself down to the level of the common man and accept that they have emotions and the trust needs to be repaired. Or, would it be simpler to simply mandate that they trust again.

 

[noenegdod]

You are right, you have poor logic.

It isnt actually my logic, it was simply a natural extension of the logic you are employing.

 

[Cdkipp]

You again appear desperate to make this about me and then throw out a strawman in a rather pathetic attempt to show how smart you are and how stupid I am.

I am not saying I agree or disagree with you or anyone else. What I am saying is simply that a not insignificant portion of the population has lost faith in the "system" because their trust was violated. If a woman chose not to trust men because of an assault, would you call her stupid? Trust was violated, in both cases, and it would appear that because of what appears to be a superiority complex, in at least the first case, you are unable to bring yourself down to the level of the common man and accept that they have emotions and the trust needs to be repaired. Or, would it be simpler to simply mandate that they trust again.

Yeah. I am not buying what you are selling. I don't think you can put the dysfunction on this board that has been rampant in our country for years at the feet of Fauci. Many of those commenting above did not like Fauci's comment but somehow they all still follow science and got the vaccine. As for this: "attempt to show how smart you are and how stupid I am"---that wasn't really anything I felt the need to put effort into establishing. I think our posts pretty much speak for themselves.

 

[BMcL]

I tried to do that for years but I had to cut out a lot of the Bible or interpret it more loosely. The Bible was very explicit on homosexuality, slavery, and the violation of laws of physics. I suppose God can do what he wants, but it leaves me sad that he is all knowing, knows what it would take to convince sinners and heathens but refuses to do so. If God had hardened my heart so I go to hell, and doesn't want me to think freely and use my god given brain and logic, then fudge him and his son's fake sacrifice that amounted to slumming it for 30 years followed by a bad weekend so he could symbolically give those willing to suck his holy cock an out and damn those who want an answer to the horrific world he has created full of omnipotent suffering and omniscient acquiescence.

So God should have never given us free will ? He won't make you obey him.

 

[Cdkipp]

You again appear desperate to make this about me and then throw out a strawman in a rather pathetic attempt to show how smart you are and how stupid I am.

I am not saying I agree or disagree with you or anyone else. What I am saying is simply that a not insignificant portion of the population has lost faith in the "system" because their trust was violated. If a woman chose not to trust men because of an assault, would you call her stupid? Trust was violated, in both cases, and it would appear that because of what appears to be a superiority complex, in at least the first case, you are unable to bring yourself down to the level of the common man and accept that they have emotions and the trust needs to be repaired. Or, would it be simpler to simply mandate that they trust again.

You think BMcl would be a reasonable guy if not for Fauci. Got it.

 

[Cdkipp]

So God should have never given us free will ? He won't make you obey him.

Try telling a calvinist that.

 

[Cdkipp]

So God should have never given us free will ? He won't make you obey him.

Ephesians 1:4–5: "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,"