Powering high loads like dryer

[hwy17]

Incorrect...

The flame sensor will cut off if the flame isnt burning around the sensor.
However, the high soot content of propane when perfect can allow one or more burners to extinguish, with the burner or pilot near the sensor to still show flame...

There's only one burner and no pilot on a dryer. Everybody all over my area has propane dryers and nobody's getting annual service or having their house blow up. The safety of these appliances is very good otherwise they would've been taken off the market a long time ago.

 

[MajicDiver]

That's a bit dramatic, the flame sensor is going to cut off the gas flow if it gets extinguished.

I believe he is likely talking about a propane dryer. We have propane heat as backup for mini splits ( the furnace is outside) and have a propane tankless water heater located in our unfinished unseated basement. I would not want a propane or gas dryer in the inhabited portion of our home due to the lint issue I assume he is referring to.

There is a lot of safety related drama on this forum but I don’t think it unreasonable to be a little cautious about a propane/gas dryer in a inhabited space.

 

[hwy17]

I don’t think it unreasonable to be a little cautious about a propane/gas dryer in a inhabited space

It's 100% standard in California to have a gas or propane dryer in the laundry room, connected to the house. They do not just start leaking gas when they get plugged up with lint. They also cannot get plugged up with lint all the way through to the burner, which is located on the air intake to the clothes tumbler, not on the exhaust.

 

[summit]

I have been using heat pump water heaters for ten years. In heat pump mode the use one third the power. I tried to find a heat pump dryer six years ago but they were expensive and not easy to find. They are more available now.

same here, installed in 2013 and still going strong, fingers crossed. In fact, it's installed in our basement and it de-humidifies the air nicely. We also hang our larger laundry items in the basement, when it rains for days on end, and the HPWH just extracts the latent heat from the vapor (humidity) and sticks inside the tank. I've even disconnected the upper&lower heating rods and operates it strictly in HP mode. Drawing around 650-w run time, probably 2kw start-up, permits battery powered operation during outage.

Also have been looking at HP dryers, it seems the major problem is to keep the condenser clean from lint build-up. Most are the smaller, ~4 cu-ft size. Only Whirlpool make has the standard 7 cuft size, but the reviews are so encouraging.

It would be kinda of fun to modify our huge dryer and mate with one of those portable window AC/HP

 

[ksmithaz1]

In my case, we're strongly considering NO grid. We live in Maine, where sun is plentiful in summer but not so much in winter. So, you can spend all the capital you want but still have little sun for several days in a row. In those cases, avoiding a power-hungry dryer or WH can allow for far fewer batteries, which is the big cost these days. The more I think about it, the more I like propane for these needs, but the boss is against it out of safety concerns. Compromises...

Why not use propane for a generator? Getting back to the demand thing, If your plant is capable, use the generator to charge batteries if they fall below say 20%. You only need enough generator to meet average demand, you let the inverters handle all your output.

 

[ksmithaz1]

Why not use propane for a generator? Getting back to the demand thing, If your plant is capable, use the generator to charge batteries if they fall below say 20%. You only need enough generator to meet average demand, you let the inverters handle all your output.

I would note, there is no substitute for having a generator. If you are 100% off-grid it will be a 100% requirement. If your average hourly electric usage is <5KWH (Mine is higher in the summer, YMMV), you get a chargeverter and a 6KW 240v genny, let the thing pop on as needed. Bump the batteries a bit, but then you don't have to get crazy. My biggest gripe with the 18KPV/12KLV is there is no way to leverage the genny input as battery charge only. Dumb IMNSHO. You can gradually increase your plant with more solar panels to help with charging when it's cloudy.

There was a time when the all-electric home was the model of the future. This was generally touted as 'safer' and 'cleaner'. At least from a homeowner perspective, in general this is probably true, though the additional risks associated with NG and propane are fairly small if you aren't an idiot, and the newer appliances have drastically better safety features, and I would install a gas detector. I for one am not into cleaning out fireplaces and wood stoves, but I surely would have something as a last resort if I lived off-grid far up north.

 

[Quattrohead]

No standing pilots in modern equipment.
Gas anything is as safe as the most determined idiot.

 

[k490]

There's only one burner and no pilot on a dryer. Everybody all over my area has propane dryers and nobody's getting annual service or having their house blow up. The safety of these appliances is very good otherwise they would've been taken off the market a long time ago.

Co-worker his dryer vent got clogged up with lint burned his house down. Not sure if he had an electric or natural gas, but after I heard took a look at my electric dryer it had lot of lint buildup. My dryer vent goes up to the roof not a good design IMO. When I was a kid, every home had natural gas the vents short pipe about 2 feet long through the wall outside then right to a flap with a hood over it keep rain out. Next home I buy natural gas will be required I hate electric heating. My last house had a 4 ton gas / AC unit it heated the house from 50-70 in about 10 minutes or less. My heat pump when it's 20F outside it takes a good hour heat the house to 70f.

 

[Quattrohead]

If you are going to go with propane appliances you might as well have a propane generator, especially up in Maine.

 

[summit]

Next home I buy natural gas will be required I hate electric heating. My last house had a 4 ton gas / AC unit it heated the house from 50-70 in about 10 minutes or less. My heat pump when it's 20F outside it takes a good hour heat the house to 70f.

Heat pump heating is different from burning fuel, certainly takes longer at low temperature. We're trying zone heating this year with mini-split, so far so good, though it has been "warm" in north CA. Our Pioneer Ultra minis are rated to -13F, but definitely work harder in the 30s. But the best thing is the electricity to power them can be home-grown.

We're going out on a limb and replaced our generator with back up power from the EVs, for those multiple consecutive cloudy days. Felt a little envy yesterday on my walk to see a Ford Lightning parked at a neighbor place. The Lightning's 9.6kw 120/240 PowerPro outlets can definitely work as a generator.

 

[time2roll]

Personally, I'm intrigued by heat pump dyers. Seems like the solar enthusiast's friend, at least in concept.

Works same as a dehumidifier only with lint from the clothes mixed in. I was intrigued also until I read some reviews. Seems as though the lint over time bogs the whole thing down and it is virtually uncleanable without some disassembly. Also much slower than a standard gas/electric.

Disclosure: I have never actually used one.

 

[upnorthandpersonal]

PVWatts

Estimates the energy production and cost of energy of grid-connected photovoltaic (PV) energy systems throughout the world. It allows homeowners, small building owners, installers and manufacturers to easily develop estimates of the performance of potential PV installations

pvwatts.nrel.gov

Your tax dollars at work (if you live in the US). May as well get something for all that money we give 'em. Works anywhere in the world, so if a person is somewhere else, yet another gift from the US. Enjoy.

If you want to use European tax payer funded tools, have a look at:

JRC Photovoltaic Geographical Information System (PVGIS) - European Commission

Photovoltaic Geographical Information System (PVGIS)

re.jrc.ec.europa.eu

 

[summit]

Works same as a dehumidifier only with lint from the clothes mixed in. I was intrigued also until I read some reviews. Seems as though the lint over time bogs the whole thing down and it is virtually uncleanable without some disassembly. Also much slower than a standard gas/electric.

In principal it is not very complicated. For sure that double-pole 15A 240v breaker would be sufficient for a heatpump dryer, definitely not for a resistive dryer. While these are labeled as "ventless", most seem to still exhaust into the room and recirculate back into the dryer. Why not keep all the flow inside ? and install a separate, accessible, decent filter for the condenser

 

[zanydroid]

In principal it is not very complicated. For sure that double-pole 15A 240v breaker would be sufficient for a heatpump dryer, definitely not for a resistive dryer. While these are labeled as "ventless", most seem to still exhaust into the room and recirculate back into the dryer. Why not keep all the flow inside ? and install a separate, accessible, decent filter for the condenser

NEC targets 5000VA minimum for resistive dryers so I imagine not much interest in making equipment below that…

Not sure about condenser ventless but heat pump ventless definitely seeks to do it in a closed loop of air, apart from leaks. That prevents humidity issues and recovers heat when it condenses out.

I think the latest generation have begun to make the heat exchanger clean out easier to access/accessible in the first place.

 

[Madcodger]

Just a quick little reminder to all my friends here re dryers, from a guy that gets awakened from a nice, sound sleep too often because someone in our little communities decides to dry a load of laundry at midnight and HASN'T KEPT THEIR DRYER VENTS CLEAN. Regardless of the source of heat, lint is incredibly flammable. So, please clean that little lint trap AFTER EVERY LOAD and clean out the vent system of both the dryer and the venting itself, all the way to the outside (I know, HP dryers don't have those, but otherwise...), at least once each year. You can get a kit that'll last many years at any big box store, or online, and it's not that difficult on a Saturday morning. Otherwise, they're a major source of fires in homes. I'm getting old, and I need my sleep. Help your local (in many areas, all-volunteer) fire dept get their shut eye, friends. End public service grumbling. ?