Pre Built battery Systems or Build myself?

[brun18ette]

Im looking to build/buy a solar system for a small cabin i have. Im hoping to make a system around 4-6kwh with batteries and all. I was hoping to find one that has a wifi system or able to install a wifi system to monitor everything. Im wondering if i should consider getting a plug and play power station and add batteries to it like the Goal Zero system with the link and batterie they sell, but am not a fan of the batteries they use since they are not LiFePO4. Im wanting to use LiFePO4 batteries since they are so much better and just last a lot longer, lighter and so on.

I have been doing some research and haven't been able to find any pre built systems that i can add batteries too and be able to track them via the apps companies offer such as Goal Zero, EcoFlow and Inergy (Apex). I did find out that EcoFLow does make a Pro Kit, that they made for their Kickstarter that makes it possible to add a battery such as this but they dont appear to sell it on there website anymore. I called and asked them about it and they said it was only for the Kickstarter campaign.

Does anyone have any recommendations on this or maybe a hack to be able to add LiFipo4 batteries to these systems and be able to monitor over their apps?

 

[Goombah111]

Building it yourself is always cheaper if you're up to the task but might be better to have it prebuilt if you're going for a first-time large system.

 

[MichaelK]

I would skip the kit and assemble the components yourself. Go to Costco and get four of their 6V golf-cart batteries. Then search Craigslist for who is marketing cheap grid-tie panels in your local area. Expect to get about 4W per dollar with local pickup. Then go online and pick up a MPPT charge controller and an inverter, or maybe instead an AiO unit.

Expect that to run you about 1500$ for a viable 24V cabin system. As your needs change over time, you can individually swap out this or that subsystem as your family grows/needs change.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

I would skip the kit and assemble the components yourself. Go to Costco and get four of their 6V golf-cart batteries. Then search Craigslist for who is marketing cheap grid-tie panels in your local area. Expect to get about 4W per dollar with local pickup. Then go online and pick up a MPPT charge controller and an inverter, or maybe instead an AiO unit.

Expect that to run you about 1500$ for a viable 24V cabin system. As your needs change over time, you can individually swap out this or that subsystem as your family grows/needs change.

I agree with Mikes suggestion except go 48 volts vice 24... everybody is moving up. in 4 or 5 years 24 volt will be automotive only I think. a 4048 magnum inverter is about 2K figure 1k USD for 3-4Kw of panels andabout 600 for some morningstar solar controllers. (all above are well regarded and solid though not the flashiest.) then calculate batteries on your expected run time without solar. everybody has their own special sauce, but 4 kw of panels on 400 A/H battery bank can go a long ways... especially if you are willing to work with the chemistries other than straight lead acid such as LiFePo4. I am after many years jumping onto the lithium bandwagon. I waited until it seemed that enough info was floating around to make an informed choice. good luck.

 

[Steve_S]

24V system can handle up to 6000W output + surge. 24V @ 6000W pulls 250A, which is the edge of it's working range.
That can either be delivered as 120VAC/50A or 240VAC/25A to your cabin.

Prebuilt "KITS" are sold at a premium, typically 150-300% above cost to DIY it, sometimes even more as the stuff is proprietary usually.

Best Bang per Buck, are the MPP-Solar All-in-one systems and then Growatt for Tier-2 & 1 grade... then up to SolArk & Victron (now that's deeper into the wallet) These include the Solar Controller, Inverter & Charger in one unit, simplifying installation & operation. These units are MODULAR internally, so parts can be swapped, replaced/repaired.

Have a Look at Will's page on AIO's.

All-in-One 12/24/48V Packages

MPP and a few other manufacturers now sell a "complete off grid system in a box" that has: AC Inverter Solar Charge Controller AC Battery Charger Automatic Transfer Switch (if grid power is...

www.mobile-solarpower.com

Batteries:
Are you in a region subject to freezing temps ? IF YES, then you will want a BMS that has Low Temp cutoff.
Growatt, SolArk & Victron also produce commercial battery packs for their systems BUT they are far from cheap ! But Darn Good !
DIY is obviously the most cost effective AND you learn about the system and then can know how to maintain repair etc should something go wrong. Known Good Vendors such as Luyuan Tech have provided thousands of cells to members here without any major issues.

BTW: I am living 100% offgrid, 24V/4000W in the deep north. Average use of 3-4kWh per day, as my home is self-cooling and hyper efficient. I started with 22kWh (1/2 useable) of Heavy Rolls Lead Acid and now am running 30kWh of LFP as my primary bank. If you look at the "About my System" link in my signature you'll see the solar details, house build info and more. There are several other links like the Luyuan Tech LifePo4 Assembly guide, voltage chart etc which would help you on your journey.

Hope it helps, Good Luck
Steve

 

[time2roll]

Any kit will be a compromise. I prefer to get my own stuff.

 

[HOU_Castle]

Im looking to build/buy a solar system for a small cabin i have. Im hoping to make a system around 4-6kwh with batteries and all. I was hoping to find one that has a wifi system or able to install a wifi system to monitor everything. Im wondering if i should consider getting a plug and play power station and add batteries to it like the Goal Zero system with the link and batterie they sell, but am not a fan of the batteries they use since they are not LiFePO4. Im wanting to use LiFePO4 batteries since they are so much better and just last a lot longer, lighter and so on.

I have been doing some research and haven't been able to find any pre built systems that i can add batteries too and be able to track them via the apps companies offer such as Goal Zero, EcoFlow and Inergy (Apex). I did find out that EcoFLow does make a Pro Kit, that they made for their Kickstarter that makes it possible to add a battery such as this but they dont appear to sell it on there website anymore. I called and asked them about it and they said it was only for the Kickstarter campaign.

Does anyone have any recommendations on this or maybe a hack to be able to add LiFipo4 batteries to these systems and be able to monitor over their apps?

Have you ever built battery from cell packs? if No, then you need to consider risks vs. saving $$$. Battery is dangerous stuff if you don't know what you are doing. It is stored energy. You need proper PPE, and etc.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

Have you ever built battery from cell packs? if No, then you need to consider risks vs. saving $$$. Battery is dangerous stuff if you don't know what you are doing. It is stored energy. You need proper PPE, and etc.

waking up and getting out of bed in the morning is dangerous... working with any electrical device can be dangerous.... getting married and having kids can be dangerous....

 

[Steve_S]

Have you ever built battery from cell packs? if No, then you need to consider risks vs. saving $$$. Battery is dangerous stuff if you don't know what you are doing. It is stored energy. You need proper PPE, and etc.

The NAME of this Forum is ?
What are we talking about and doing here ?

 

[HOU_Castle]

PPE to assemble battery packs ?

I have been working in the utility operation for over 20 years. I saw many people saved by wearing PPE. And many fatalities&serious injuries for not wearing PPE or abusing PPE. What I'm trying to do here is to entice the newbie in critical thinking (risks vs. cost saving). And for those who decide to build it , then they need to know the danger of it and have the correct mindset and PPE for it. You may get away with so many near-misses, but just one step away from bad accident. I don't want to see the newbie becomes the statistic. I won't STOP to promote critical thinking and SAFETY (and PPE). I would think many folks in the forum will agree with me. We need to promote SAFETY First!

 

[Steve_S]

Then you should be clear, rather than using the PPE acronym.
Most a DIY'er will do, honestly, is maybe wear rated footwear and use safety glasses (which Will also reminds folks all the time), occasionally gloves. Although those of us who have or are dealing with Lead Acid KNOW that part really well... Sulfuric Acid is NOT forgiving of stupid, never.

And as a side note: Given the recent COVID thing, when PPE is mentioned, 95% of folks think masks ! May not seem obvious to you as you see it from your professional point of view, but folks here are 99% everyday Joe & Jane DIY'er trying to get things done.

 

[ereams65]

I mean in all fairness, the arc from a dead short on a 48v battery can cause some serious damage to a person. Laughing off PPE protection probably isn't the route to take either.

 

[HOU_Castle]

I mean in all fairness, the arc from a dead short on a 48v battery can cause some serious damage to a person. Laughing off PPE protection probably isn't the route to take either.

You are right!! I don't think you are promoting fear......Fear to make you think and be critical of what you are doing. May be having an engineering control in place or SME to go along with the 48V battery project. PPE is your last defense, NOT primary. Many youtube videos around battery accidents.

 

[ereams65]

Maybe someone didn't know what PPE stands for. In all fairness, it's an acronym most folks hadn't heard prior to the Covid pandemic. Just in case someone else stops by and is curious; Personal Protective Equipment.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

sorry but at my age PPE is a well worn term working as a mechanical engineer in the maritime field I am well aware of what it means.... I was speaking about another abuser of power via fear... my answer fear not and do what you will...being careful is a great thing until you are too afraid to move....

 

[50ShadesOfDirt]

WRT batteries (LiFePO4), there are some strategies to consider:

- get 'er done fast, at a higher cost: *buy* a LiFePO4, doing as much homework as you can
- get 'er done at least cost/Ah: *build* a LiFePO4, ditto on the homework

I went the 1st route to get a series of LiFePO4's in, two (SOK) 12v100Ah for various testing projects, and two (Ampere Time) 12v300Ah for the house battery bank. This was done "quick" ... it jump-started LiFePO4 efforts in those two areas.

What I've noticed in both cases, however, is that the vendors utilize non-manageable BMSs (inexpensive?) inside each, meaning, I'll never be able to monitor them with any software tools. I've suggested to both vendors that the BMS be "upgraded" to manageable, and I'd happily pay the premium for it ... got back a "no" (SOK), and a "maybe" (AmpereTime). I even asked for an "upgrade kit" ... no luck there, either.

If you need management visibility, build your own, using this site's valuable resources, trading time and effort for cost, but perhaps getting the "dream" battery you want. From what I can tell, get an OverKill bms.

I'm considering an effort to open one of the 12v100Ah batteries, and see if possible to replace vendor bms with an OverKill, suited to that battery. It would be interesting to see if it can be "upgraded" to being manageable.

 

[HOU_Castle]

WRT batteries (LiFePO4), there are some strategies to consider:

- get 'er done fast, at a higher cost: *buy* a LiFePO4, doing as much homework as you can
- get 'er done at least cost/Ah: *build* a LiFePO4, ditto on the homework

I went the 1st route to get a series of LiFePO4's in, two (SOK) 12v100Ah for various testing projects, and two (Ampere Time) 12v300Ah for the house battery bank. This was done "quick" ... it jump-started LiFePO4 efforts in those two areas.

What I've noticed in both cases, however, is that the vendors utilize non-manageable BMSs (inexpensive?) inside each, meaning, I'll never be able to monitor them with any software tools. I've suggested to both vendors that the BMS be "upgraded" to manageable, and I'd happily pay the premium for it ... got back a "no" (SOK), and a "maybe" (AmpereTime). I even asked for an "upgrade kit" ... no luck there, either.

If you need management visibility, build your own, using this site's valuable resources, trading time and effort for cost, but perhaps getting the "dream" battery you want. From what I can tell, get an OverKill bms.

I'm considering an effort to open one of the 12v100Ah batteries, and see if possible to replace vendor bms with an OverKill, suited to that battery. It would be interesting to see if it can be "upgraded" to being manageable.

Keep us posted. I have similar situation.