Preassembled Chinese LiFePO4 48V 10kwh "Powerwall" units - thoughts?

[mikesolar]

Hey all. I'm working on a 6.6kw solar + 40kwh storage hybrid system with a Sol-Ark 8k inverter right now. I was getting ready to buy a bunch of 3.2V 200AH cells from Alibaba to build my own batteries, but I came across another solution.

There are a few Chinese companies pre-assembling prismatic LiFePO4 cells into enclosures. The markup on these vs. DIY assembly + BMS is very low.

Here's an example unit from Greensun Solar. Price on Aliexpress for this is $2400 USD + $600 USD shipping, which I suspect is negotiable if I buy 4 of them.

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We are best Lifepo4 10kwh Lithium Battery Powerwall for Energy Storage Solar System suppliers,we supply best lifepo4 power wall 10kwh for sale.

www.greensunpv.com

The huge plus to this for me is the finished-product look. If I sell the house in 6-10 years, 4 of these wall mounted look a lot cleaner than 64 cells sitting on a shelf with bus bars. The downside here is questionable build quality and potential BMS issues. Not too worried about cell quality - I was getting ready to use low cost Chinese LiFePO4 cells to begin with. BMS failure is my #1 concern with any pre-assembled Chinese pack. I was going to do a Batrium setup on my DIY build.

Found some unverified pictures of the internals. Doesn't look too bad? Thoughts? Maybe buy one and tear it down before buying the rest?

 

[amendt]

I do like that the power wall is using 16 cells in series and the Anderson 50 connector. The 100kg package seems right given my last LiFePo4 cells were 6 kgs each

 

[Dkcampion]

Hey all. I'm working on a 6.6kw solar + 40kwh storage hybrid system with a Sol-Ark 8k inverter right now. I was getting ready to buy a bunch of 3.2V 200AH cells from Alibaba to build my own batteries, but I came across another solution.

There are a few Chinese companies pre-assembling prismatic LiFePO4 cells into enclosures. The markup on these vs. DIY assembly + BMS is very low.

Here's an example unit from Greensun Solar. Price on Aliexpress for this is $2400 USD + $600 USD shipping, which I suspect is negotiable if I buy 4 of them.

buy Lifepo4 10kwh Lithium Battery Powerwall for Energy Storage Solar System,Lifepo4 10kwh Lithium Battery Powerwall for Energy Storage Solar System suppliers,manufacturers,factories

We are best Lifepo4 10kwh Lithium Battery Powerwall for Energy Storage Solar System suppliers,we supply best lifepo4 power wall 10kwh for sale.

www.greensunpv.com

The huge plus to this for me is the finished-product look. If I sell the house in 6-10 years, 4 of these wall mounted look a lot cleaner than 64 cells sitting on a shelf with bus bars. The downside here is questionable build quality and potential BMS issues. Not too worried about cell quality - I was getting ready to use low cost Chinese LiFePO4 cells to begin with. BMS failure is my #1 concern with any pre-assembled Chinese pack. I was going to do a Batrium setup on my DIY build.

Found some unverified pictures of the internals. Doesn't look too bad? Thoughts? Maybe buy one and tear it down before buying the rest?

I am considering buying 2 powerwall. 2 inverters and 10kw in panels from greensunpv. I was wondering if you could share your experience with them and how the powerwalls turned out?

 

[JoeHam]

I’m waiting on one of these rack mount stackable units for about the same price:

100 Ah LiFePO4 @ $1250 usd. 48v nominal

Let me start by saying that I have an affliction where I read almost every post on this forum. I then wander down various paths following up on what I find interesting. I recently came across this company on one of my rabbit hole trips and I cannot remember the thread where I found this...

diysolarforum.com

The importer is in Texas and that appealed to me.

And shipping was $80 to Ohio.

 

[svetz]

...If I sell the house in 6-10 years, 4 of these wall mounted look a lot cleaner than 64 cells...

Systems like Tesla and Enphase are UL listed. Systems not certified by an NRTL are a red flag for house inspectors and may negatively impact the sale of your house. Also if it's not certified by an NRTL, check with your county they won't have a problem permitting it and with home-owners insurance in advance.

 

[Dkcampion]

Systems like Tesla and Enphase are UL listed. Systems not certified by an NRTL are a red flag for house inspectors and may negatively impact the sale of your house. Also if it's not certified by an NRTL, check with your county they won't have a problem permitting it and with home-owners insurance in advance.

See in bold under certificates. from greensunpv.com

Product Name	Powerwall Home Battery
Battery Type	Lithium Iron Phosphaste (LiFePO4)
Norminal Capacity	5Kwh 7.5Kwh 10Kwh
Norminal Voltage	48-51.2V
Battery Pack Charge Voltage	54-58.4V
Max Constant Charge Current	100A
Max Constant Discharge Current	120A
Charge Temperature	0-60℃
Discharge Temperature	-20-60℃
Storage Temperature	-20-45℃
BMS Protection	Overcurrent, overvoltage, undervoltage, short circuit, over temperature
Efficiency	98%
Depth of Discharge	100%
Dimension	830*450*160mm
Operation Cycle Life	More than 20 years
Transport Certificates	UN38.3, MSDS
Products Certificates	CE, IEC, UL
Warranty	10 Years
Weight	65KG - 100KG

 

[mikesolar]

I ended up going with a DIY pack using raw cells from other suppliers and very much regretted it. Had numerous issues with the cell shipments (courier issues, B grade cells, etc). I didn't really pursue things with GreenSun, but I wish I did.

I would discourage you from buying panels from an overseas retailer though. The freight costs will be brutal and those can usually be sourced domestically at reasonable prices, unlike LiFePO4 battery systems.

 

[ePowerBank]

hello @Dkcampion. Did you end up trying the Greensun Solar Powerwall ?

Like you I'm thinking about buying (10kw) and interested in any first hand experiences.

 

[Austinmorris]

hello @Dkcampion. Did you end up trying the Greensun Solar Powerwall ?

Like you I'm thinking about buying (10kw) and interested in any first hand experiences.

I just bought the 10kw greensun power wall and cell number 4 came basically completely dead. All the other cells were good. We opened it up and charged that cell and it charged but now im currently dealing with a bms issue. I have 48v coming out of the battery but as soon as I hook it up to the hybrid inverter it trips the bms. There are no loads hooked up to the inverter either. The inverter kicks on for about 2 seconds and the the bms trips. Toy can actually hear a pop. I can only imagine that the bms is crap but communication between greensun and I is terrible. Anyone have any ideas other then a crap bms?

 

[ePowerBank]

Sounds very disappointing. Do you have more description on your setup - i.e. solar / inverter ( type).

Assuming you purchased via Alibaba, I'd see if there's any recourse that route. Vendor doesn't want to see negative ratings. I had an experience where I made my case and was fully refunded ~ $1500.

Not sure if you realize, China has national holiday (almost a week) somewhere around 1st week of Oct, so maybe that has something to do with poor support.

 

[ePowerBank]

As I mentioned last June, I took hard look at purchasing the Greensun Powerwall and was provided attached literature - - if it helps and you happen to "not have".

 

[Holdenmorris]

Hey all. I'm working on a 6.6kw solar + 40kwh storage hybrid system with a Sol-Ark 8k inverter right now. I was getting ready to buy a bunch of 3.2V 200AH cells from Alibaba to build my own batteries, but I came across another solution.

There are a few Chinese companies pre-assembling prismatic LiFePO4 cells into enclosures. The markup on these vs. DIY assembly + BMS is very low.

Here's an example unit from Greensun Solar. Price on Aliexpress for this is $2400 USD + $600 USD shipping, which I suspect is negotiable if I buy 4 of them.

buy Lifepo4 10kwh Lithium Battery Powerwall for Energy Storage Solar System,Lifepo4 10kwh Lithium Battery Powerwall for Energy Storage Solar System suppliers,manufacturers,factories

We are best Lifepo4 10kwh Lithium Battery Powerwall for Energy Storage Solar System suppliers,we supply best lifepo4 power wall 10kwh for sale.

www.greensunpv.com

The huge plus to this for me is the finished-product look. If I sell the house in 6-10 years, 4 of these wall mounted look a lot cleaner than 64 cells sitting on a shelf with bus bars. The downside here is questionable build quality and potential BMS issues. Not too worried about cell quality - I was getting ready to use low cost Chinese LiFePO4 cells to begin with. BMS failure is my #1 concern with any pre-assembled Chinese pack. I was going to do a Batrium setup on my DIY build.

Found some unverified pictures of the internals. Doesn't look too bad? Thoughts? Maybe buy one and tear it down before buying the rest?

I know this is an old post but we ended up buying a solar setup from alibaba and everything was pretty good for what you pay except the battery. They shorted one of the cells when welding the busbars and so the bms would shut the battery bank off because the one cell kept depleting. Greensun’s 10yr warranty doesn’t mean anything. They just ignore everything you send to them if it’s about them fixing their problem. Can even get replacement parts from them. We’ve had good luck with Bluesun solar and Rosen seems pretty promising.

 

[ePowerBank]

@Holdenmorris
Thank you MUCH for sharing your unfortunate experience. Seems every good deal comes with risks. I feel lucky to have this forum!

If you used your credit card and went through alibaba I wonder if there's a recourse there if they're not honoring the warranty?

 

[robby]

Systems like Tesla and Enphase are UL listed. Systems not certified by an NRTL are a red flag for house inspectors and may negatively impact the sale of your house. Also if it's not certified by an NRTL, check with your county they won't have a problem permitting it and with home-owners insurance in advance.

This forum often times exposes the way the human physique works when we are confronted with something that claims to deliver what we want at a price that we find very appealing. We ignore all the warning signs and fool ourselves into believing that the product is just as good or close to being as good as another well known product that costs 3-4 times the price. We fall back on some soothing logic like "Those Greedy companies are making a killing" that's why it's so expensive! Do people really think that the guy in China is selling it to us out of the goodness of his heart for this super low price.

People need to understand a few things.

We have 20 or more battery companies that are selling true certified UL and CE tested packs. Not Packs that are just marked UL certified but ones that actually can provide you with a certificate and number that can be verified in UL's database.
They are all expensive because they all cost a lot for the parts, parts like real Tier 1 / Grade A cells, a good BMS systems, Class-T uses built in, proper wiring and a hefty fee to get them tested and certified.
If all of these 20 companies are making some outlandish profit then it is really surprising that one of them has not significantly cut their prices and grabbed the market share from the rest.

If a company in China is selling you a battery pack for $1000 don't be fooled, the parts the guy used to make that pack with probably cost about $400. He will use the cheapest of labor to shine that Turd until you think it is a Gem stone. Old Cells get their sleeves removed, their top removed and then they are buffed and polished, threading redone and then a new sleeve is heat shrinked on and a new top that is made from a molding machine glued down. All of this kind of thing is super cheap to do in China.


Don't fall for the "Certified" or "soon be certified" Crap.
Even the big distributors in the US are not going to waste their money going through a long and expensive certification process. Why would they? Once certified the Chinese manufacturer would increase his prices and a whole bunch of other US distributors would use the certification that the first company paid for to sell the same battery pack for less.
If it does not have a valid certificate that you can look up and verify before you buy the product then it's safe to assume it will never have one and it's most likely not made to a standard that could ever qualify for certification.

Lastly, warranties on these products mean nothing. Consider the deal done once the package arrives at your door!