Predator or Champion?

[sunshine_eggo]

I wouldn't trust natural gas unless I was in a region that is already pre-hardened for extreme cold. The 2/2021 Texas power debacle had the natural gas infrastructure take a crap too.

 

[SparkyJJO]

I wish gasoline lasted longer. It is slightly easier to get and my genny only runs on gasoline (maybe i should spend the $100 for the propane kit if i can figure out which one).

 

[sunshine_eggo]

I wish gasoline lasted longer. It is slightly easier to get and my genny only runs on gasoline (maybe i should spend the $100 for the propane kit if i can figure out which one).

I always have STA-BIL or Startron within reach.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Whatever fuel you use, you need to be prepared to not be able to get any more of it when disaster strikes. And this varies wildly depending on where you live.

• Gasoline requires an electric pump at the station, and the tanks at the gas station must be intact and not full of water. It also doesn't store very long, even with stabilizers (remember we're talking about storage you want to just forget about for maybe many years).
• Natural gas is a pipeline infrastructure that could get damaged my moving earth/objects or extreme cold. I don't know of any way to store NG for your self, so it goes away as soon as anything breaks.
• Propane is great because of its tanks, but large tanks can be damaged by floods, tornadoes and moving earth/objects and break the pipes on your property. Can be stored for a lot longer than gasoline, so long as the tanks don't get washed away or otherwise damaged.

I'm not at all worried about tornadoes or crazy freezes. But CA gets earthquakes, rolling blackouts and even floods sometimes. People in hurricane territory have to deal with water intrusion problems. And clearly, Texas has some snap-freeze concerns.

 

[Dagoth Ur Does Solar]

Whatever fuel you use, you need to be prepared to not be able to get any more of it when disaster strikes. And this varies wildly depending on where you live.

• Gasoline requires an electric pump at the station, and the tanks at the gas station must be intact and not full of water. It also doesn't store very long, even with stabilizers (remember we're talking about storage you want to just forget about for maybe many years).
• Natural gas is a pipeline infrastructure that could get damaged my moving earth/objects or extreme cold. I don't know of any way to store NG for your self, so it goes away as soon as anything breaks.
• Propane is great because of its tanks, but large tanks can be damaged by floods, tornadoes and moving earth/objects and break the pipes on your property. Can be stored for a lot longer than gasoline, so long as the tanks don't get washed away or otherwise damaged.

I'm not at all worried about tornadoes or crazy freezes. But CA gets earthquakes, rolling blackouts and even floods sometimes. People in hurricane territory have to deal with water intrusion problems. And clearly, Texas has some snap-freeze concerns.

I agree with all this. It's all a balancing act of getting as prepared as you can within reason. That's what steered me to tri-fuel, it gives some flexibility at the turn of a dial.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

@OffGridInTheCity

Memory check... Don't you have a bunch of 100# propane tanks?

 

[SparkyJJO]

I always have STA-BIL or Startron within reach.

I use it because occasionally we'll have a ton off Kroger gas so I'll fill our gas cans with (relatively) cheap gas and run that in the mower for the next summer. I just filled a few 5gal cans at $1 off so cutting grass next year is not quite as expensive.

 

[OffGridInTheCity]

@OffGridInTheCity

Memory check... Don't you have a bunch of 100# propane tanks?

I did but 'the shed fire' destroyed them.


Learned some lessons! Rebuild is complete and I'm adding an explicit fuel storage area with metal boxes that are not likely to be ignited by nearby flammable anything and far enough away from structures to limit spreading fire from the fuel itself

Going with 40lb instead of 100lb as the shorter tanks sit upright in my SUV and easier to get filled.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

UGH!!! So sorry!!!!!

(I can see them in the background... )

 

[OffGridInTheCity]

UGH!!! So sorry!!!!!

Thank you sir.

(I can see them in the background... )

Lessons
- Avoid storing fuel next to anything flammable
- Don't rely on DIY generator exhaust wall thimble (the cause of the fire) if you don't know what you're doing
- Be sure to carry good liability amounts with you're home insurance if neighbors are near. We have middle $300K liability but if the fire had spread could have expanded to neighbors homes and exceeded this. We're upping to $500K (the max) in the future.

Good news - No one (or pets) hurt. State Farm paid for complete rebuild + contents and took care of neighbors. Also offered normal renewal with ordinary yearly increase.

 

[JRH]

In my area the propane companies will only fill their tank. If you own the tank you have to provide documentation for that and certification.

That’s pretty normal… that’s why you tell them to replace the tank.. those guys love to get a replace tank order on the competitions tank… it’s a score for them….they will move the old one out and replace it in a New York Min.

They won’t work on another companies tank it but by golly they will replace it….if you want a big tank , that’s a big account..that’s a big deal in their world…
If you negotiate it correct it’s totally free.. but if not , it’s not much to get them to set a big tank and fill it..
Over a few years that’s slot of money for them…
..
J.

 

[Bluedog225]

What’s the service life on a buried tank? It’s 1000 bucks more.

 

[DPC]

What’s the service life on a buried tank? It’s 1000 bucks more.

Might not be leagal to do in some places

 

[JRH]

What’s the service life on a buried tank? It’s 1000 bucks more.

Price depends on the tractor guy… I have done a couple of 500 gallon tanks at separate times for about 4-500 dollars each… I went to 4 ft lattice fencing for the 1000 gallon and the rest since then..
4 - 4x 4 posts, some 8 ft lattice from LOWES and your done in 3 hours… can be moved easily , meets most codes I have been around to hide the tank..

I really don’t like underground tanks as they rust over time…but maybe that’s just me.

Nothing is perfect but I like an above ground tank..with plants around the lattice fence...easy to swap out.

J.

 

[Bluedog225]

We’ve got some pretty serious wildfire concerns. This is a picture of the one before last. My place is just the other side of this. The last fire was closer and I lost about 8 wooded acres.

Wouldn’t bother me to have 500 gallons of propane underground

 

[JRH]

We’ve got some pretty serious wildfire concerns. This is a picture of the one before last. My place is just the other side of this. The last fire was closer and I lost about 8 wooded acres.

Wouldn’t bother me to have 500 gallons of propane underground

View attachment 252907

for sure … Wow , that’s incredible…I would just haul ass..

 

[DPC]

We’ve got some pretty serious wildfire concerns. This is a picture of the one before last. My place is just the other side of this. The last fire was closer and I lost about 8 wooded acres.

Wouldn’t bother me to have 500 gallons of propane underground

View attachment 252907

That’s a pretty good point
Probably the safest place

 

[12VoltInstalls]

have heard that Champion has far better after sales support and service centers all over. I haven't tested that theory out yet

I agree about champion being CS friendly.

I was irked when I called them about mine they said it wasn’t split phase, but if you look at the wiring diagram or the unit, it has two 120V outlets on different legs and a 240VAC outlet with four wires.
That sorta says split phase so it irked me their CS wasn’t appropriately knowledgeable on the product. Friendly, but untrained.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

I always have STA-BIL or Startron within reach.

Read the msds for these products.
I have had great success longterm with stable, ethanol shield is supposed to work as well or better but I have not used it.

There’s a couple of petroleum engineers on YouTube who have evaluated a range of fuel storage additives for gasoline and given those two their blessing, and I have had 100% success with all my small engines and boat motors since 2007(?) with stabil.

 

[Bluedog225]

What’s up with the msds? Something particularly bad?

 

[DPC]

I agree about champion being CS friendly.

I was irked when I called them about mine they said it wasn’t split phase, but if you look at the wiring diagram or the unit, it has two 120V outlets on different legs and a 240VAC outlet with four wires.
That sorta says split phase so it irked me their CS wasn’t appropriately knowledgeable on the product. Friendly, but untrained.

A lot of these tech people on the phone are just trained to be on he phone and don't know much about the products.

 

[Brucey]

I did but 'the shed fire' destroyed them.
View attachment 252886

Learned some lessons! Rebuild is complete and I'm adding an explicit fuel storage area with metal boxes that are not likely to be ignited by nearby flammable anything and far enough away from structures to limit spreading fire from the fuel itself
View attachment 252885
Going with 40lb instead of 100lb as the shorter tanks sit upright in my SUV and easier to get filled.

You should tell your now twitchy neighbors that those tanks are for your gasoline storage, stepping up from the propane tanks

 

[Brucey]

Read the msds for these products.
I have had great success longterm with stable, ethanol shield is supposed to work as well or better but I have not used it.

There’s a couple of petroleum engineers on YouTube who have evaluated a range of fuel storage additives for gasoline and given those two their blessing, and I have had 100% success with all my small engines and boat motors since 2007(?) with stabil.

I like pri-g and pri-d for fuel treatments.

 

[Brucey]

Thank you sir.


Lessons
- Avoid storing fuel next to anything flammable
- Don't rely on DIY generator exhaust wall thimble (the cause of the fire) if you don't know what you're doing
- Be sure to carry good liability amounts with you're home insurance if neighbors are near. We have middle $300K liability but if the fire had spread could have expanded to neighbors homes and exceeded this. We're upping to $500K (the max) in the future.

Good news - No one (or pets) hurt. State Farm paid for complete rebuild + contents and took care of neighbors. Also offered normal renewal with ordinary yearly increase.

You may be able to get umbrella insurance beyond that 500k limit if you feel like further "events" are possible.

 

[OffGridInTheCity]

You may be able to get umbrella insurance beyond that 500k limit if you feel like further "events" are possible.

Its' true - one of the neighbors sells this and explained that you could do a 1million umbrella add-on. Certainly don't plan on risking any more 'events'! However, as I understand it now....

If you're property burns / spreads and you're determined (by authorities / insurance companies) to be liable they come after you're insurance and then you're assets if claims exceed you're insurance. Liability isn't just criminal or fraud, there are various lower levels around negligence was the word used. Comments were made that loss of life (human or animal) are the 'worst' - property has a value and is more straight-forward.

Not loosing sleep, but learned more than I ever expected to know and worth sharing a bit.