Prices will go up within a month. (EG4 +industry insights)

[Brucey]

Seems I was wrong, it's the Ford battery plant that is on hold

블루오벌SK 배터리 공장, 교통량 증가·소음 우려로 주민 반발 커져

[더구루=정예린 기자] 미국 켄터키주가 SK온과 포드의 전기차 배터리 합작사 '블루오벌SK' 공장 인근에 새로운 도로를 건설한다. 교통량을 분산하기 위한 조치이지만 소음 공해 우려 등으로 주민들의 반발이 커지고 있다. 15일 켄터키 지역 방송 'WDR

view.mk.co.kr

That was in February last year, progress since then:

Sparking the Future: Ford’s $5.8B Battery Plant Advances

Barton Malow is the design-build contractor on the BlueOval SK Battery Park for the automaker and its partner SK On Co.

www.enr.com

My understanding is they are proceeding with two plants but plans for a third are on hold after demand for Ford evs plumetted.

 

[Dave911]

I have a feeling that Ford may be in a whole lot of trouble.

They make a huge amount of money on their pickup trucks but they are having quality issues. If they can get those fixed they will be ok. Until then the stock will drag. Electric vehicles pretty much backfired on them. Adds keep popping for me regarding the Ford Electric pickup truck, but for the 2024 model, not a 2025. They start at $62k! That's a hard pass for me. But Tesla is not doing great either right now. Elon is not helping their sales much. I had a bunch of Ford stock, but I sold it before the wheels started coming off. I didn't make any money on it in almost two years. At least I didn't lose a bunch!

 

[Eber]

Ford need to get its head out of its butt. in 1976 i could climb in the engine compartment and remove all the bolts off my 300- 6 banger transmimssion bellhousing. Now i dont even like looking under the hoods.
I have a 2000 silverado that i can work on just fine.
I do wonder how hard those EVs are to work on.

 

[OffGridForGood]

I have a feeling that Ford may be in a whole lot of trouble.

Well I have to wonder...since...

Adds keep popping for me regarding the Ford Electric pickup truck, but for the 2024 model, not a 2025. They start at $62k!

That is not the price, Ford reduced the price of the 2024 Lightning's to help their dealers get these moving off the lot - I know because I cut a deal for one and paid under 62K in Canadian-micro-bucks for a new 2024. Not sure how long this price-cut will last, but if you're interested in a Lightning they are selling right now well below the MSRP. Kinda like buying the EV battery and the truck around it is nearly free...

I do wonder how hard those EVs are to work on.

Well...since you ask - this is an interesting series of videos - I watched them just to see how it all goes together...surprisingly simple actually...
Lightning tear down There are seven videos in the series, this one linked shows you how they remove the massive battery - 8 bolts, a ground and six electrical plugs.

 

[SparkyJJO]

There are seven videos in the series, this one linked shows you how they remove the massive battery - 8 bolts, a ground and six electrical plugs.

Now lift that battery without a forklift

 

[Norwasian]

There is always that "Made in Usa" (the city "Usa" that is) subterfuge which might entail one of two places in Japan, two in Russia, and a spelling variant of one in India. Put the entirety in capital letters and you have a real winner.

I remember buying a thick, large, heavy winter coat in the U.S.A. (notice the ambiguity-reducing punctuation) and being surprised to see "Made in Thailand" on its tag. It may very well have been made in Thailand, but I have never once, in decades of experience in Thailand, seen anything like it on the market here. It was manufactured specifically for the U.S. market, and to the standards that the U.S. required.

I'm not opposed to outsourcing. I think the U.S. laws have made it too difficult for factories to be competitive. It's not that workers demand higher wages so much as that there is so much legal overhead which drives costs up. For example, tree planters in the United States who hire foreign migrant workers because American citizens are too dainty to condescend to such hard physical labor must place appropriate toilet facilities every so many yards throughout their work area to ensure they are accessible. Oh, and, why not make those comply with the ADA requirements as well, since, well, surely a disabled person will be wielding a mattocks for 10 hours a day out in the boondocks? Most ordinary men would simply water the seedlings they'd just planted, giving them a natural boost toward their survival.

But let's put tariffs on those outsourced products. Then we can penalize ourselves twice--first for having the ludicrous laws that made business go away, then next for punishing those businesses that dared to still eek out an existence overseas.

The answer to the problem is not tariffs. It's to cleanup our legislation and make it more conducive to business. Health, safety, and environmental concerns need not become so weighty as to abolish the workflow altogether. Reasonableness is needed.

 

[Crowz]

Ford need to get its head out of its butt. in 1976 i could climb in the engine compartment and remove all the bolts off my 300- 6 banger transmimssion bellhousing. Now i dont even like looking under the hoods.
I have a 2000 silverado that i can work on just fine.
I do wonder how hard those EVs are to work on.

That is like my 2002 F250 7.3 diesel vs every newer diesel ford used in their trucks.

As short as I am I can actually sit under the hood of my 7.3 truck and work on the motor.

7.3


6.0



Those huge air pipes for fresh air intake and the turbo's intercooler pipers are easy to remove and then you go to work on the 7.3.

On the next generation that has the 6.0 you basically have to do a cab removal to get to the engine

 

[OffGridForGood]

Now lift that battery without a forklift

He didn't use a forklift - he dropped the battery on a cart, and lifted the truck with a standard car lift.
Actually I like how the battery drops out with 8-bolts and a few cable connectors disconnected - shows that a drop in replacement will be easy when better battery technology is available.

 

[Brucey]

He didn't use a forklift - he dropped the battery on a cart, and lifted the truck with a standard car lift.
Actually I like how the battery drops out with 8-bolts and a few cable connectors disconnected - shows that a drop in replacement will be easy when better battery technology is available.

Oh there won't be a better battery for those models, as they are the ICE frames with battery modules sized to fit to rush something to market. Apparently in 2025 or 2026 we'll see their clean sheet design without any of the ICE related baggage.

 

[455dan]

That is like my 2002 F250 7.3 diesel vs every newer diesel ford used in their trucks.

As short as I am I can actually sit under the hood of my 7.3 truck and work on the motor.

7.3
View attachment 276920

6.0
View attachment 276919


Those huge air pipes for fresh air intake and the turbo's intercooler pipers are easy to remove and then you go to work on the 7.3.

On the next generation that has the 6.0 you basically have to do a cab removal to get to the engine

A 7.3 is still a bit Busy under hood compared with the same year Cummins equipped Dodge.

 

[ULR]

This is absolutely not true. "Made in America" or equivalent phrase has legal meaning and means every single part or good majority of it is made in America.

From Wikipedia:

Made in USA
A Made in USA mark is a country of origin label affixed to American-made products that indicates the product is "all or virtually all" domestically produced, manufactured and assembled in the United States of America. The label is regulated by the Federal Trade Commission (FTC).

In general, goods imported into the United States must have a country of origin label unless excepted, but goods manufactured in the United States can be sold with no origin label unless explicitly required. ...

Assembled in USA
A product that includes foreign components may be called "Assembled in USA" without qualification when its principal assembly takes place in the U.S. and the assembly is substantial. For the "assembly" claim to be valid, the product's "last substantial transformation" also should have occurred in the United States. A "screwdriver" assembly in the U.S. of foreign components into a final product at the end of the manufacturing process does not usually qualify for the "Assembled in USA" claim.

(Note that Wikipedia has a "citation needed" for the Assembled in USA" term.)

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

That is like my 2002 F250 7.3 diesel vs every newer diesel ford used in their trucks.

As short as I am I can actually sit under the hood of my 7.3 truck and work on the motor.

7.3
View attachment 276920

6.0

Those huge air pipes for fresh air intake and the turbo's intercooler pipers are easy to remove and then you go to work on the 7.3.

On the next generation that has the 6.0 you basically have to do a cab removal to get to the engine

question for you, in one of the threads you were discussing burning WMO or WVO forget which, in a 7.3 was it this one or an IDI version? (oh and which was it the WMO or WVO?)

 

[chill633]

To add a little to the "how are they going to make batteries in the US" conversation, there is a huge amount of momentum in this area as detailed in this Techcrunch article. We're talking 30+ different battery factory projects in various stages of completion. To mention one refining factory, Tesla included an update in its Q4 2024 earnings report on the refinery, saying that it plans to bring the plant online in 2025 before scaling production.

Concerned about NIMBYs not wanting to refine lithium? Pennsylvania has a leg up in that they've discovered large amounts of lithium in the fracking wastewater that they're pumping up. We're talking fracking waste here, which is already permitted and has to be processed. Being able to extract value from that is going to be a no-brainer.

And who can forget last year when some of America's finest minds were claiming the US gov't was controlling the weather to send hurricanes into North Carolina so FEMA could steal people's land for a measly $750 because of all the lithium it contains? Again, reinvigorating communities that were already heavy mining areas in the past. Even the DoD is getting in on the action.

So, while it isn't going to happen over night, we're definitely chugging down that highway at a good clip. I believe James' original comments are along this line. Not gonna happen tomorrow, but it is closer than people thing and definitely coming.

 

[OffGridForGood]

Oh there won't be a better battery for those models, as they are the ICE frames with battery modules sized to fit to rush something to market. Apparently in 2025 or 2026 we'll see their clean sheet design without any of the ICE related baggage.

Then we will just build our own! - start a new battery-build thread as soon as we can get the next gen battery cells LOL
At least the battery is removable without tearing the whole truck apart.

 

[Crowz]

question for you, in one of the threads you were discussing burning WMO or WVO forget which, in a 7.3 was it this one or an IDI version? (oh and which was it the WMO or WVO?)

I don't have any of the idi versions. All of mine are powerstroke models with turbos.

WMO = Waste Motor Oil

WVO = Waste Vegetable Oil

We just call it cooking oil or old motor oil around here

I ALWAYS run 2 stroke oil in the superduty diesels when using vegi oil for fuel because of the heui injectors. They need that dab of oil to last.

 

[Quattrohead]

So, while it isn't going to happen over night, we're definitely chugging down that highway at a good clip. I believe James' original comments are along this line. Not gonna happen tomorrow, but it is closer than people thing and definitely coming.

It would happen much quicker if we diverted the funds into researching this rather than fannying around with AI.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

I don't have any of the idi versions. All of mine are powerstroke models with turbos.

WMO = Waste Motor Oil

WVO = Waste Vegetable Oil

We just call it cooking oil or old motor oil around here

I ALWAYS run 2 stroke oil in the superduty diesels when using vegi oil for fuel because of the heui injectors. They need that dab of oil to last.

so you have run WMO in your powerstroke? I ahve been trying to find someone, anyone on the various forums who specifically said they ran WMO in their HEUI injector 7.3. reason being I want to.... it was and still is part of the plan for my centrifuge system. but all i find are naysayers.... lots of folks running veggie oil but thats all pushed by one forum member (ont he truck forums) who sells a premade kit for the truck to preheat the veggie oil and keep all of the supply lines warm for cold weather use along with an automated fuel swap over system where it starts on diesel, swaps to veggie when warm, and then back to diesel for a few minutes after the key is shut off to purge the lines of the veggie.

any long term use? any issues at all with the injectors?

 

[wpns]

Now lift that battery without a forklift

Why? The battery’s self-propelled. This battery would be allowed by my condo assn parked in the driveway.

 

[Crowz]

so you have run WMO in your powerstroke? I ahve been trying to find someone, anyone on the various forums who specifically said they ran WMO in their HEUI injector 7.3. reason being I want to.... it was and still is part of the plan for my centrifuge system. but all i find are naysayers.... lots of folks running veggie oil but thats all pushed by one forum member (ont he truck forums) who sells a premade kit for the truck to preheat the veggie oil and keep all of the supply lines warm for cold weather use along with an automated fuel swap over system where it starts on diesel, swaps to veggie when warm, and then back to diesel for a few minutes after the key is shut off to purge the lines of the veggie.

any long term use? any issues at all with the injectors?

Never had any injector issues from it but I was VERY careful with wmo filtering wise. I even used magnets on it

These things will burn about anything for fuel. Jet fuel and kerosene are popular fuel alternatives on bases.

 

[SolarScott]

Ford need to get its head out of its butt. in 1976 i could climb in the engine compartment and remove all the bolts off my 300- 6 banger transmimssion bellhousing. Now i dont even like looking under the hoods.
I have a 2000 silverado that i can work on just fine.
I do wonder how hard those EVs are to work on.

Look at an F250 with the 7.3 or 6.8 V-8 gas engine. Old pushrod engine. You can reach all plugs, coil packs easily. Exhaust manifold is SS. This pickup will last me till I die.

 

[OffGridForGood]

Oh there won't be a better battery for those models, as they are the ICE frames with battery modules sized to fit to rush something to market. Apparently in 2025 or 2026 we'll see their clean sheet design without any of the ICE related baggage.

when there are thousands of them, with Aluminum body panels so they don't rot out like my Ram... someone will make an aftermarket drop in battery pack.
That gives me an idea - watch for a "write off truck" and buy the battery from it...for my trailer power idea, AND be a replacement battery for the new truck! DSAM, DSAM...don't spend any money....

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

Look at an F250 with the 7.3 or 6.8 V-8 gas engine. Old pushrod engine. You can reach all plugs, coil packs easily. Exhaust manifold is SS. This pickup will last me till I die.

yeah I grew up with late 60's and early 70's cars... one time I crawled into the engine bay on my 72 f250 and closed the hood 3/4's of the way so I could work on it in the rain... that ain't happening these days and its not just do to the extra weight i have gained.

 

[Brucey]

when there are thousands of them, with Aluminum body panels so they don't rot out like my Ram... someone will make an aftermarket drop in battery pack.
That gives me an idea - watch for a "write off truck" and buy the battery from it...for my trailer power idea, AND be a replacement battery for the new truck! DSAM, DSAM...don't spend any money....

People were paying over 100k for the first units, prices have absolutely tanked since and have only further to fall. Same thing with cyber truck. Only a small number will pony up mega bucks majority are waiting for price equivalence with gas or less.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

People were paying over 100k for the first units, prices have absolutely tanked since and have only further to fall. Same thing with cyber truck. Only a small number will pony up mega bucks majority are waiting for price equivalence with gas or less.

i said it before I was all hyped up to replace my old F150 with a lightening but Ford acted all squishy about charging overseas and any kind of warranty claims... I gave up when the price suddenly jumped to stupid levels. got my 7.3 diesel instead... probably came out ahead in the long run.

 

[OffGridForGood]

majority are waiting for price equivalence with gas

right now - the Lightning after the 'incentives" from Ford for a 2024 was the same price as the ICE F-150. Maybe not for long...
I took the deal. under 40K in USD taxes in. The dealers are not moving product and it is a buyers market - just keep wearing them down, they will move on the prices.