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Problem with Victron Battery Protect

Dklude

New Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2019
Messages
3
Hi.

Have just installed a 220 amp battery protect in my system. I have 13.7 volts in, but for some reason only 5.5 out. Out is too a bus bar with positive connections to 2000 watt in inverter 12v distribution board and a solar charger..

What am I doing wrong?

Thank you
 
So I disconnected the inverter from the out/load side today. Still same issue, only 5v output. Very frustrating. Is there a procedure for factory reset that anyone is aware off?

Thanks in advance
 
Hey guys, I had some similar problems problems with voltage drop across my Victrons in my setup. I "fixed" it, by just running two in parallel so all the amps were not cranked through one low-voltage cutoff. Here's a video of that Dklude (
) on my Youtube. I have had people tell me that are some issues with the Victron low-voltage cutoff, but that unless you want to drop $2k on a commercial one, it's probably the best your going to do. There needs to be some instructional videos out there on working around the problems these that pop up with these (especially under 2500w 20A plus systems). Will you got more experience than me with em, but I know you're a little busy at the moment. I can do one but would like some pointers on the most common issues that occur so that I can make sure I cover them.
 
Hi.

Have just installed a 220 amp battery protect in my system. I have 13.7 volts in, but for some reason only 5.5 out. Out is too a bus bar with positive connections to 2000 watt in inverter 12v distribution board and a solar charger..

What am I doing wrong?

Thank you

The problem is that you're fried your BatteryProtect. I'm the Technical Support Manager for the largest stocking Victron distributor in the western US, and this is a problem I've seen countless times because Victron doesn't make one thing clear in their documentation: The BatteryProtect is unidirectional in operation ONLY... it cannot be connected in a way that allows reverse current through it -ie, it cannot be connected between a battery and a busbar to which any charge source is also connected (your solar charger, for instance, or an alternator, or any other charge source). Applying reverse current to it will almost instantly fry the FETs; usually they'll weld closed, permitting full current throughput but won't ever disconnect the load; sometimes they'll weld open, so no current is passed through in any case; and sometimes some of them weld shut and others weld open, in which case you see the condition you're describing: the ones welded shut are passing current while the ones welded open are not, so you end up with weird voltages on the other side.

Contact the authorized Victron distributor from whom you purchased this device; this will be covered by warranty, so they'll replace it for you (how much of a pain it might be depends on the distributor). Most importantly, though, when you get your new one, don't hook it up like this again.

Another note is that Victron does NOT support the use of a BatteryProtect between a battery and an inverter. The inrush current of an inverter turning on can far exceed the BatteryProtect's rating and, again, fry the FETs. I know there are diagrams on this forum showing them connected this way, and that's an issue I'm addressing on a case-by-case basis... but please stop using them this way. Any reputable inverter has its own low-voltage disconnect, and does not need this device. The BatteryProtect is primarily designed to hook to a set of small loads only, such as fans, lights, refrigerators, and the like, and provide low-voltage disconnection to those items that do not already have this protection built in.
 
Sometimes the inverter initial surge for charging its capacitors will cause the BP to trip. Very common.
Will, please see my reply to DKlude regarding the connection limitations of the BatteryProtect. Just this morning I filed another RMA with Victron for a customer who connected her BatteryProtect as is described in various diagrams on this forum and discovered that it malfunctioned. The BatteryProtect is unidirectional in operation only; applying reverse current through it will cause it to malfunction, and can cause dangerous overheating and fire potential.
Again, I'm the tech support manager for the largest stocking Victron distributor in the western US, I promise I know what I'm talking about, and what's being proscribed in certain areas on these forums is causing device malfunction at best and potentially severe fire hazards at worst.
If you would like clarification regarding the operation of these devices, how they must be connected, or alternatives that might work better for some of your diagrams, please contact me directly at 619-320-5899, press 2 for support, M-F 9-5 PST or reach out to me at justin@baymarinesupply.com

Not trying to drum up business here, I'd just really like for everyone to be safe and also stop burning up their BatteryProtects.
 
Will, please see my reply to DKlude regarding the connection limitations of the BatteryProtect. Just this morning I filed another RMA with Victron for a customer who connected her BatteryProtect as is described in various diagrams on this forum and discovered that it malfunctioned. The BatteryProtect is unidirectional in operation only; applying reverse current through it will cause it to malfunction, and can cause dangerous overheating and fire potential.
Again, I'm the tech support manager for the largest stocking Victron distributor in the western US, I promise I know what I'm talking about, and what's being proscribed in certain areas on these forums is causing device malfunction at best and potentially severe fire hazards at worst.
If you would like clarification regarding the operation of these devices, how they must be connected, or alternatives that might work better for some of your diagrams, please contact me directly at 619-320-5899, press 2 for support, M-F 9-5 PST or reach out to me at justin@baymarinesupply.com

Not trying to drum up business here, I'd just really like for everyone to be safe and also stop burning up their BatteryProtects.

Thank you for taking the time to share all that information Justin. I will definitely be contacting you directly. One point I do have to strongly disagree with you on is that you don't need a battery protect between your batteries and your inverter because the inverter has a built in cutoff. Will Prowse and myself both use the Giandel pure sine wave inverter. I use a 4000w inverter in my Solar car, and consider it a reputable inverter. It's not a $5,000 commercial inverter, but it's pretty solid by consumer electronics standards. The low voltage cutoff listed in the owner's manual for this inverter is 9.6v. Thankfully mine actually goes into low-voltage cutoff at 11.3v to 11.4v, but even that is too low for me to get maximum longevity out of my AGM battery bank.
You absolutely need a low-voltage cutoff to protect your battery bank, in all applications where a large expensive bank is being used and you are not constantly monitoring it.
 
Thank you for taking the time to share all that information Justin. I will definitely be contacting you directly. One point I do have to strongly disagree with you on is that you don't need a battery protect between your batteries and your inverter because the inverter has a built in cutoff. Will Prowse and myself both use the Giandel pure sine wave inverter. I use a 4000w inverter in my Solar car, and consider it a reputable inverter. It's not a $5,000 commercial inverter, but it's pretty solid by consumer electronics standards. The low voltage cutoff listed in the owner's manual for this inverter is 9.6v. Thankfully mine actually goes into low-voltage cutoff at 11.3v to 11.4v, but even that is too low for me to get maximum longevity out of my AGM battery bank.
You absolutely need a low-voltage cutoff to protect your battery bank, in all applications where a large expensive bank is being used and you are not constantly monitoring it.
My pleasure in regards to sharing information; incorrect usage of otherwise quality components is a big pet peeve of mine (right up there with connecting high-quality components with knockoff breakers and cables in between).
Regarding the need for a low-voltage disconnect between batteries and inverter... I see your point. I'm used to dealing with Victron components that all have their own user-settable shutdowns built in (thus why Victron did not design the BatteryProtect to be used on an inverter), but I know all components are not designed equally, and while we certainly wouldn't sell such products, I try not to judge those who do :p .
For the public record here, if everyone wants a reliable, trustworthy, safe way of properly doing this, look at the Sterling ProLatch-R line. This is a bistable, fully programmable, waterproof, magnetic latching relay... it has four programmable modes, one of which is specifically a battery protect mode, and it has fully adjustable high/low voltage disconnect setting. It is designed for use on inverter lines, chargers, and etc., and can handle (assuming it's sized appropriately to your system) the massive momentary inrush current that some inverters pull. See on our website here (though, obviously, you can get it from anyone you'd care to): https://baymarinesupply.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=ProLatch
It's a beast to program because it doesn't have any buttons or BT functionality, but once it's programmed the thing is bulletproof... and, since the manual was written by the guy who designed the thing and only really makes sense to him, I've written a manual of my own that makes the process as simple as possible.
All that being said, I have to seize on one particular thing in your reply, which is that you say you consider your inverter to be a good one... but it's shutting down almost 2 full volts higher than it's designed to? I mean that actually works out in your favor, obviously, but it's exactly that kind of inconsistency that is why we are so picky about what companies we distribute... most of our customers (and all of us who work here) are either boaters or boondockers, and for us consistency and reliability can literally be a matter of life or death, so we simply won't tolerate any product that has such a degree of inconsistency in its behavior. I'm glad that it works out for you, though!
 
@Justin Laureltec The BP-100 and BP-220 both have a peak current rating of 600A. As long as the inrush current draw of the inverter is below that, shouldn't it be fine?
One would think so, certainly, but Victron's official explanation of the "inverters killing BPs" phenomenon is that the inrush current is enough to heat up the FETs while the inverter caps charge and then the caps, once fully charged, feed a little current back down the line through the now-hot FETs, thus causing a minor reverse-current scenario that the hot FETs are unable to cope with. Understand that this is just a theory on their part, since they didn't design the BPs for this type of installation and as such they're not entirely certain what might be causing the fault, but that's the most likely theory I've heard yet.
 
Will does the shorting out here:

So it can work. You just have to remember to do it every time you move stuff around.

I'm assuming AC surges are handled by the inverter itself? So if your 2000w inverter has a 4000w rated surge load you still should be ok even though it's above the 220 amps of the BP...?
 
I watched the video. I wired up my battery protects in the exact same manner he does here. My load was a little heavier (close to 2 kw), but everything else was the same. And it fried the battery protects. I dont know why they worked for Will and not for me or several others. It seems like they may work in this application for lighter loads (maybe) but I gave up on em, after frying two. They are NOT a solid product for this application.
 
I watched the video. I wired up my battery protects in the exact same manner he does here. My load was a little heavier (close to 2 kw), but everything else was the same. And it fried the battery protects. I dont know why they worked for Will and not for me or several others. It seems like they may work in this application for lighter loads (maybe) but I gave up on em, after frying two. They are NOT a solid product for this application.
All: Please note the description, in which he specifically says "do not use a battery protect with an inverter". The video was made before everyone understood how the Battery Protects work and why they fail using them this way.

Update.png
 
Will does the shorting out here:

So it can work. You just have to remember to do it every time you move stuff around.

I'm assuming AC surges are handled by the inverter itself? So if your 2000w inverter has a 4000w rated surge load you still should be ok even though it's above the 220 amps of the BP...?
No. As noted above: do not do this. Your Battery Protect will fail, and it will not be covered by the warranty because you're using it in an expressly forbidden configuration.
 
No. As noted above: do not do this. Your Battery Protect will fail, and it will not be covered by the warranty because you're using it in an expressly forbidden configuration.
Thank You!! He runs an 800watt load off the inverter in this video. I THINK that's why it works for him. Its a pretty small load. I want to see Will run a 2kw load on it for a couple of days with multiple cold starts and shutoffs, and see how the battery protect handles that.
 
Hi all, sorry for digging up an old thread - I’m glad I read the comments to Will’s video and followed this discussion.

So I’m back to square one with my 24v generator build. What options do I have to protect from low voltage, able to drive large loads (~2200 watts intermittent), and benefit from the management of a BMS?

I saw Will’s recent demo of the Chargery BMS and it seemed promising but overly complicated and possibly overstated in its capabilities (runs HOT).
 
So based on this it seems like the bottom line is:
- The BP cannot be used with an inverter.
- The BP cannot be used if there is a charging source.

So... what good is this product at all then? It's marketed as a "protect" / safety feature in your system, but it can't properly do over current protection? I get that maybe it works great if you have no charging source and only small loads, etc, etc, but how many people would actually have a setup like that? I could imagine rather few, so then, presumably most people using this product are using it "incorrectly"? It should be made quite clear on their product page IMO that you can't connect it to an inverter, or, a charging source...

@Larry619 it looks like @Justin Laureltec provided a link to a "ProLatch" latching relay (https://baymarinesupply.com/sterling-prolatch-240.html). From what I read it looks it has a "Battery Protection Mode" and from elsewhere in the product page it says that it can be used either unidirectional or bidirectional. Seems like it might work in your situation, or at the very least seems like it would be a drop-in replacement for the BP as far as I can tell.
 
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