Quality vs China MPPT?

[Lt.Dan]

Does anybody have any info on the difference between a quality SCC (Victron for example), vs a cheaper China one, such as an Epever, or even like the ones built into the MPP Solar and Growatt AIO?

I'm curious if the higher quality MPPT's will result in more PV production compared to cheaper ones.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

curious if the higher quality MPPT's will result in more PV production compared to cheaper ones

I saw an youtube once touching on that stuff

Epever performed well in the vid. Much better than some aio pwm. The top shelf stuff did well.

I think it’s more of a reflection on the software than on the hardware. I’m not sure but the hardware I would guess is superior with substantial longevity on the Duesenberg level products.

I wish I could find that vid but nope.

 

[MurphyGuy]

Stick around these forums for a while..

You see all kinds of problems with the Chinese stuff and very rarely any issues with quality brands.

 

[Lt.Dan]

Thats exactly what I'm wondering, not necessarily the hardware per say, but the MPPT Algorithm. Are they even different? Or is the algorithm so simple that all manufacturers use the same?

I can see obviously a PWM being bad, but there isn't any AIO that I know of that uses a PWM SCC.

The reason I'm curious about this, is I am trying to determine if the AIO is worth the simplicity, or will the extra cost of buying individual pieces eventually going to pay for itself with more PV production.

 

[Lt.Dan]

Stick around these forums for a while..

You see all kinds of problems with the Chinese stuff and very rarely any issues with quality brands.

I'm not inquiring about the quality and if they will last, but strictly the amount of PV harvested.

 

[MurphyGuy]

I'm not inquiring about the quality and if they will last, but strictly the amount of PV harvested.

Whoops! I think I missed that somehow.. My kid was hanging on me.

Probably no difference in the amount of energy harvested..

 

[Lt.Dan]

I did find one video comparing the EPEver, but I think he was having problems, as it was showing almost 1/4 the output of the Victron, then he reset it and it went to 1/2 the output.

I just want to see 24 hr results of a Victron SCC and an EPEver (or equivalent) with 2 panels exactly the same, in the same orientation, on the same day. That would be interesting

 

[turbo6bar]

Will Prowse did a YouTube comparing various MPPT controllers. The list included Victron, Renogy, EPEVER, I believe among many others. Performance wise, they all yielded the same wattage.

The video was easily 8 months ago, perhaps even further back.

 

[Cheap 4-life]

I would consider Outback a very good charge controller that will allow you to get basically as much from your array as any other charge controller. And btw they are also made in China or India or wherever like most things.

 

[Lt.Dan]

Will Prowse did a YouTube comparing various MPPT controllers. The list included Victron, Renogy, EPEVER, I believe among many others. Performance wise, they all yielded the same wattage.

The video was easily 8 months ago, perhaps even further back.

I just quickly scrolled through all his videos, and the only one I saw comparing SCC's was over 2 years ago, and he just talked about them and their specs, but not a physical test.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

just want to see 24 hr results of a Victron SCC and an EPEver (or equivalent) with 2 panels exactly the same, in the same orientation, on the same day. That would be interesting

I think Will Prowse did a video like that once. Like a few years ago. I’m not 100% sure but I think a victron was included.

the MPPT Algorithm. Are they even different? Or is the algorithm so simple that all manufacturers use the same?

There’s people here that could speak to that. I can’t because I don’t hack.

My understanding is that different equipment may benefit from tailored software but the basic programming for mppt hits the bottom of the funnel with the same electrical principles so my opinion is they are essentially the same base programming.

 

[turbo6bar]

I just quickly scrolled through all his videos, and the only one I saw comparing SCC's was over 2 years ago, and he just talked about them and their specs, but not a physical test.

He definitely tested each controller with a panel and showed the wattage produced through each controller. It's entirely possible he removed the video, but I'm not sure why he would do so.

 

[Lt.Dan]

I do remember that video. But there were a lot of variables, clouds overhead, and throughout a different time of the day. It only shows what each one would do under a different circumstance.

Id like to see them all hooked up, for 24 hours, with the same opportunity.

 

[sunshine]

Id like to see them all hooked up, for 24 hours, with the same opportunity.

Where the electrons go is usually the determining factor.
My $600 Astra is as fast as a million$ Lamborghini on a crowded freeway!

 

[12VoltInstalls]

Id like to see them all hooked up, for 24 hours, with the same opportunity.

That would be fun to see.
I’m sure at this point with Will’s development that he probably wouldn’t even need to buy anything except maybe 10 identical electric heaters to provide a somewhat scientific equal load.

Honestly, though, I think the output would be similar across anything decent. At this point R&D on programming i.e. algorithms doesn’t exist because that among several other elements of silicon photovoltaic is a mature technology.
Storage, load management, and integration are the developing sectors for residential solar these days. Barring some new technology that trumps silicon cells for solar energy harvest the commodity production of solar and processing of the electricity has little if anything to gain by development. We have the math and science to know potential and actual production for a design. Some research seeks to increase cell efficiency but the cost so far for the minimal improvements is outweighed by the inexpensive standard manufactured panels being put out today.

It is worthy to note- in that department- that some development on panels has been done as evidenced by commodity polycrystalline panels that produce nearly the same as monocrystaline panels these days. The difference used to be greater as I recall.

Nevertheless, mppt isn’t magic it’s just math.

 

[Rednecktek]

I can see obviously a PWM being bad, but there isn't any AIO that I know of that uses a PWM SCC.

I have the Eco-Worthy 600w AIO that I bought** for a class as an example. It's got the PWM controller built in.

PowMr makes a 3000w/24v and 5000w/48v AIO, along with Giandel's 1200w version.

Super cheap, but they do exist.

**Yes, I paid money for that as a teaching aid. Don't hurt me.

 

[rhino]

Would be nice to see a tear-down of some of these to see the difference. Even if the hardware acts the same there could be vast differences in the quality of components and build used internally that may directly affect the longevity. Another indication of this is warranty. The Victron 100/50 I looked at has 5 year warranty. I couldn't even find warranty information on the Epever on a number of sites I checked.

 

[rhino]

Even checking their site, I can't find anything on warranty information for one of their higher end charge controllers: https://www.epever.com/product/tracer-an-50-100a-mppt-charge-controller/

Edit: Victron has warranty right in their manual: https://www.victronenergy.com/uploa...0-30__100-50/MPPT_solar_charger_manual-en.pdf

Epever does not.

 

[Lt.Dan]

I care less about a stated warranty. I have learned the hard way of a lot of products that boast lifetime or 10 year warranty, that just turns out to be a crap product that you end up replacing several times, or they don't hold up the warranty because of some stupid fine print sh*t.

I do NOT buy a product based on the warranty, but rather the quality of the product, in hopes I never have to use a warranty. Same goes for a lot of things, cars/trucks/trailers/TV's, etc.

 

[A.Justice]

In my experience, cheap Chinese stuff generally works just fine. You pay for longevity and features. I would absolutely trust a Victron to keep my lights on in an serious emergency, and I'm sure that cheap Chinese products would do the same, but you have to expect some level of failure.