Question on 120V vs 240V/120V Split Phase and Low Frequency Inverters - Load sharing required?

[matt2006]

I have worked in off grid solar for over 5 years.

But I have this nagging question.

For customers at the 4000W Inverter size; I've recommended 120V single phase inverters unless there is a specific 240V appliance they need to power.

My reasoning was that the 4000W split phase, when used for 120v applications required load sharing over each leg. (MAX 2000W per leg...)
Am I right or wrong?

The inverters I've been using are:
AIMS Power Corp
Sungold which is a knockoff of AIMS

LINK examples:
AIMS Power 4000W 24VDC to 120VAC Pure Sine Wave Inverter Charger (PICOGLF40W24V120V)

https://www.amazon.com/AIMS-Power-PICOGLF40W24V120V-Available-Frequency/dp/B00IQHT6TU

AIMS Power 4000W 24VDC to 240VVAC SPLIT PHASE Pure Sine Wave Inverter Charger (PICOGLF40W12V240VS)

4000 Watt Pure Sine Inverter Charger 12Vdc / 240Vac Input & 120/240Vac Split Phase Output

We offer a 4000 Watt 12 Volt Pure Sine Inverter Charger 120/240 Vac split phase.

www.aimscorp.net

SUNGOLDPOWER 4000W 24VDC to 240VVAC SPLIT PHASE Pure Sine Wave Inverter Charger (LFP4K24V240VSP)

https://www.amazon.com/SUNGOLDPOWER-12000W-Inverter-Charger-Converter/dp/B00S4C702M

 

[Steve_S]

I run 120V only using a Samlex EVO-4024 (4000W-12,000W) Low Frequency Inverter/Charger. It has served my needs well and even runs my compressor & did run my MIG Welder without a blink. Now, these are serious inverters and extremely programmable and can be paralleled. The price reflects such as well, about $2K +/-, and Tier-1 product. When I built my home, I provisioned wiring from the Powerhouse to house to handle 240V and is wired for that (it's underground wiring) so I can upgrade into the house with little effort.

I did not intend to have 240 BUT EVOLUTION happens regardless. At this "moment" I don't "need" 240 but am looking at a few things that require 240 such as full Induction Cooktop & Airfryer Oven, in addition, I'm looking at a 4x4 EV Trucks (only way to get up here in winter is by 4x4) and they are now appearing. This was not a previous consideration but the prognosis for my life has changed quite a bit and I'm gonna be around a lot longer than previously believed. I've put my Ford Ranger 4x4 into partial retirement & replaced that with a Dodge Ram 1500 4x4 and gasoline is ludicrous ! Being 100% Solar & with 30kWh of battery some things are evolving, especially now that viable trucks are appearing. A car simply does not meet my requirements.

As with all things, your needs drive your application requirements, then tack on "wants" and that always has an impact... the "Would Likes" have to be reasonable as well.

 

[matt2006]

@Steve_S thanks for sharing; that didn't answer my question however.

I have used smaller samlex inverters and seen a 4000W in person. That sounds great; however my experience is with the AIMS/SunGold/Sigineer brands.

I checked their manual and the most they say is on the input/output wiring diagram (PAGE ATTACHED) that has a note:
"Warning: If only using a 120V load, use Hot line 1 + Neutral, when the load power is more than 50% of the inverter's rated power then use Hot line 2 + Neutral."

 

[Symbioquine]

I checked their manual and the most they say is on the input/output wiring diagram (PAGE ATTACHED) that has a note:
"Warning: If only using a 120V load, use Hot line 1 + Neutral, when the load power is more than 50% of the inverter's rated power then use Hot line 2 + Neutral."

Interesting! Is there something different about that inverter's two hot lines, or is that just a primitive way of manually balancing the loads?

 

[Supervstech]

I have worked in off grid solar for over 5 years.

But I have this nagging question.

For customers at the 4000W Inverter size; I've recommended 120V single phase inverters unless there is a specific 240V appliance they need to power.

My reasoning was that the 4000W split phase, when used for 120v applications required load sharing over each leg. (MAX 2000W per leg...)
Am I right or wrong?

The inverters I've been using are:
AIMS Power Corp
Sungold which is a knockoff of AIMS

LINK examples:
AIMS Power 4000W 24VDC to 120VAC Pure Sine Wave Inverter Charger (PICOGLF40W24V120V)

https://www.amazon.com/AIMS-Power-PICOGLF40W24V120V-Available-Frequency/dp/B00IQHT6TU

AIMS Power 4000W 24VDC to 240VVAC SPLIT PHASE Pure Sine Wave Inverter Charger (PICOGLF40W12V240VS)

4000 Watt Pure Sine Inverter Charger 12Vdc / 240Vac Input & 120/240Vac Split Phase Output

We offer a 4000 Watt 12 Volt Pure Sine Inverter Charger 120/240 Vac split phase.

www.aimscorp.net

SUNGOLDPOWER 4000W 24VDC to 240VVAC SPLIT PHASE Pure Sine Wave Inverter Charger (LFP4K24V240VSP)

https://www.amazon.com/SUNGOLDPOWER-12000W-Inverter-Charger-Converter/dp/B00S4C702M

4000W is a LOT at 120V and I agree, at 240V, it isn't very usefull for 240V loads. 4000W 240V appliances aren't very frequent. Most need over 5000W to operate.
However, using a split phase inverter for 120 only loads has advantages in standard panel wiring and layout can be used... but more than 2000W on one leg would trip the inverter, so balanced circuits is a must.

 

[Vibe]

@Steve_S thanks for sharing; that didn't answer my question however.

I have used smaller samlex inverters and seen a 4000W in person. That sounds great; however my experience is with the AIMS/SunGold/Sigineer brands.

I checked their manual and the most they say is on the input/output wiring diagram (PAGE ATTACHED) that has a note:
"Warning: If only using a 120V load, use Hot line 1 + Neutral, when the load power is more than 50% of the inverter's rated power then use Hot line 2 + Neutral."

Hot 2 is not monitored or protected like Hot 1 is. Neutral is the center tap of the voltage split transformer, so the power is there, on Hot 2, but it lacks the protection and monitoring. Hot 2 will not wake the inverter from standby because of this. Hot 1 plus Hot 2 is just a 240vac load. And the total can be covered by the actual inverter capacity. I've got an air compressor that was trying to pull 22amps @120vac, so I will probably rewire that motor for 240vac instead. Even though it was only an 85% load according to the remote display.
This was with the Sigineer APC6048D inverter I got when I ordered from ECPC/Energetech.

 

[glennjr1]

Hot 2 is not monitored or protected like Hot 1 is. Neutral is the center tap of the voltage split transformer, so the power is there, on Hot 2, but it lacks the protection and monitoring. Hot 2 will not wake the inverter from standby because of this. Hot 1 plus Hot 2 is just a 240vac load. And the total can be covered by the actual inverter capacity. I've got an air compressor that was trying to pull 22amps @120vac, so I will probably rewire that motor for 240vac instead. Even though it was only an 85% load according to the remote display.
This was with the Sigineer APC6048D inverter I got when I ordered from ECPC/Energetech.

Hello,
I am a newbie here and I have a Sungold 4000-Watt pure sine wave inverter/charger that has been giving me fits and to try and get help from Sungold is almost impossible. Now I think I know why. My problem is with it waking up. There is no mention in the Sungold User's Manual about H1 & H2, their terminals are just labeled L & L. I am using the 220 V configuration feeding a distribution panel. Am I right to presume that the L terminal on the left might be the H1 terminal in the Aims Schematic? This has been a nightmare from the beginning and even the outfit I bought this system from is not very helpful, as a matter of fact they are useless, and I have discovered they are no more than drop shippers. When I bought the system, it was advertised as coming with the AIMS charger inverter but when it arrived it was a Sungold, and they told me it was made by AIMS. Not true?? Anyhow I guess I have to check which buss I have that particular load connected to. Any information regarding this inverter would be appreciated.

 

[Crowz]

Hello,
I am a newbie here and I have a Sungold 4000-Watt pure sine wave inverter/charger that has been giving me fits and to try and get help from Sungold is almost impossible. Now I think I know why. My problem is with it waking up. There is no mention in the Sungold User's Manual about H1 & H2, their terminals are just labeled L & L. I am using the 220 V configuration feeding a distribution panel. Am I right to presume that the L terminal on the left might be the H1 terminal in the Aims Schematic? This has been a nightmare from the beginning and even the outfit I bought this system from is not very helpful, as a matter of fact they are useless, and I have discovered they are no more than drop shippers. When I bought the system, it was advertised as coming with the AIMS charger inverter but when it arrived it was a Sungold, and they told me it was made by AIMS. Not true?? Anyhow I guess I have to check which buss I have that particular load connected to. Any information regarding this inverter would be appreciated.

I was using the aims model of that and it never reliably "woke up" when sensing light loads. If I nailed it with something large it worked most of the time.

I don't remember that much about that model now but I do remember going thru that and later just set it as on all the time.

 

[Vibe]

Hello,
I am a newbie here and I have a Sungold 4000-Watt pure sine wave inverter/charger that has been giving me fits and to try and get help from Sungold is almost impossible. Now I think I know why. My problem is with it waking up. There is no mention in the Sungold User's Manual about H1 & H2, their terminals are just labeled L & L. I am using the 220 V configuration feeding a distribution panel. Am I right to presume that the L terminal on the left might be the H1 terminal in the Aims Schematic? This has been a nightmare from the beginning and even the outfit I bought this system from is not very helpful, as a matter of fact they are useless, and I have discovered they are no more than drop shippers. When I bought the system, it was advertised as coming with the AIMS charger inverter but when it arrived it was a Sungold, and they told me it was made by AIMS. Not true?? Anyhow I guess I have to check which buss I have that particular load connected to. Any information regarding this inverter would be appreciated.

Was it intended to be split phase? If not, then there may not be a center tap on the transformer at all, so no central neutral reference. It may be strictly a 220vac inverter. An external isolation transformer might get you past that, with the understanding that you will only have 2000w max on a 120vac leg.
Go to the ECPC/Energetech or Sigineer site and see if you can download the APC manual for your model. Their manual might provide you some insight.

 

[glennjr1]

Yes, it is wired as split phase.

 

[glennjr1]

I just noticed I sent the wrong picture. This is when it is hooked up and functional (almost). Just the inverter giving me fits!!!